Danno's DD TJ Build - Page 88 - JeepForum.com
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post #1306 of 1319 Old 11-20-2014, 06:57 AM
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Danno! This is badass



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post #1307 of 1319 Old 11-20-2014, 08:29 AM
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Although this didn't work out for me last time, I'd like to express interest in the upper rear arms please and thanks.

Good day.


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post #1308 of 1319 Old 11-22-2014, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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Great progress today! Rear axle is out & the frame brackets are off. Tomorrow is chop chop day! Also made my welder extension cord & tacked up all the artec brackets. Took some measurements for the front & rear trusses. I'll model them up on Monday on my lunch break & get them over to a shop I found for a quote.

Side note, auto darkening welding masks are awesome, but hard to get used to. Still kept flipping my head to put it down.


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post #1309 of 1319 Old 12-05-2014, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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Did some research on coilovers mounting angles today. From what I've read, the ideal set up has the coilovers close to 90 to the lower control arm from the side & close to 90 degrees to the axle from the rear at full stuff. This setup promotes increasing spring rates upon compression. Over 90 to the axle is bad & increases body roll significantly.

If any of this is false or if anyone has any other advise, lay it on me!


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post #1310 of 1319 Old 12-06-2014, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno6102
Did some research on coilovers mounting angles today. From what I've read, the ideal set up has the coilovers close to 90 to the lower control arm from the side & close to 90 degrees to the axle from the rear at full stuff. This setup promotes increasing spring rates upon compression. Over 90 to the axle is bad & increases body roll significantly. If any of this is false or if anyone has any other advise, lay it on me!
Correct In regards to viewing from the side, increasing spring force and shaft speed closet to compression. viewing from the front or back gets a bit more tricky.

General rule when working within the constraints of a Jeep frame, just get the COs leaned in as much as possible (upper mounts towards the center and lower mounts as far out towards the tires while keeping frame and tire clearance in all points of suspension travel. Without insanely wide axles or starting with a tube frame buggy, you are likely not going to get the optimal angle and still have clearance, but you want to get as close as possible given your space constraints.

Optimal angle is going to be that which the CO angle relative to the axle (think of the angle created between the axle tube and shock on the pumpkin side of the lower CO mount) does not open greater than 90* at full bump on that side and full droop of the other. It should start less than 90 when the axle is not flexed if the shocks are tilted inward, make sense? That makes spring force and shaft speed progressive as the axle attempts to flex or the body tries to roll and aids in stability. If it reaches 90, and then surpasses it, stability is compromised and the shock acts less and less as the body rolls more and more. In the case of a CO starting at 90* when the axle is straight and not flexed at all, or even worse, the CO tilt outwards instead of inwards (was the case on Jay's original setup) the suspension is extremely unstable and body roll will be severe without a stiff sway bar to bandaid the issue.

If you think about it, when cornering or on a side hill while crawling, if a CO (this is the case with any weight bearing shock so air shocks or ORIs too) is tilted outwards where the bottoms of both shock are closer than the tops, the outside shock doesn't need to collapse at all as the inside shock unloads, it almost just acts as a pivot and it creates a very tippy and dangerous handling. With proper shock angle, COs tilted inward enough that 90* is never surpassed, the outside CO during a corner will fight body roll all the way to the bump stop, it really is amazing how much more stable that feels.

Get as much angle as you can but don't get frustrated if you can't achieve the perfect shock angle. It's nearly impossible without seriously narrowed frame sections on a TJ and full width axles. A sway bar can be used to assist and valving and spring stops can be adjusted as well to compensate for unwelcome body role. I've got as much as I can fit but mine still open just a bit past 90 at full flex.

I've got a illustration to show correct shock angle I made for other members who have asked me, I'll have to see if it's still on my computer in the morning, that might help you visualize the info above.


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post #1311 of 1319 Old 12-06-2014, 01:43 AM
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This is why I mounted the bottom of my CO all the way out on my inner Cs. Even w/o a sway bar, I'm still very stable.
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post #1312 of 1319 Old 12-06-2014, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
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Awesome info Mike! That confirms what I read you just did a much better & more in depth explanation. I was completely intimidated by figuring this out, but after doing a little research & you're explanation, it doesn't sound too bad. Sounds like the biggest hurdle is packaging. I have a lot of room in the rear, with the back half & no fears of cutting into the tub. Front might be quite the challenge.


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post #1313 of 1319 Old 12-06-2014, 10:37 AM
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This shot isnt perfectly head on nor is the shock at full bump on that side but it does show you the angle you want to pay the most attention to when those conditions are met. My new setup is even closer, I have as close as I could possibly be to the right angle in the front and its so stable without a front sway bar I dont't think I am even going to bother trying to stuff an Anti-rock back on there. Its so hard to fit one with my setup anyway.



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post #1314 of 1319 Old 12-07-2014, 09:16 AM
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Pics forwarded......

Quote:
Originally Posted by MO2500 View Post
Correct In regards to viewing from the side, increasing spring force and shaft speed closet to compression. viewing from the front or back gets a bit more tricky.

General rule when working within the constraints of a Jeep frame, just get the COs leaned in as much as possible (upper mounts towards the center and lower mounts as far out towards the tires while keeping frame and tire clearance in all points of suspension travel. Without insanely wide axles or starting with a tube frame buggy, you are likely not going to get the optimal angle and still have clearance, but you want to get as close as possible given your space constraints.

Optimal angle is going to be that which the CO angle relative to the axle (think of the angle created between the axle tube and shock on the pumpkin side of the lower CO mount) does not open greater than 90* at full bump on that side and full droop of the other. It should start less than 90 when the axle is not flexed if the shocks are tilted inward, make sense? That makes spring force and shaft speed progressive as the axle attempts to flex or the body tries to roll and aids in stability. If it reaches 90, and then surpasses it, stability is compromised and the shock acts less and less as the body rolls more and more. In the case of a CO starting at 90* when the axle is straight and not flexed at all, or even worse, the CO tilt outwards instead of inwards (was the case on Jay's original setup) the suspension is extremely unstable and body roll will be severe without a stiff sway bar to bandaid the issue.

If you think about it, when cornering or on a side hill while crawling, if a CO (this is the case with any weight bearing shock so air shocks or ORIs too) is tilted outwards where the bottoms of both shock are closer than the tops, the outside shock doesn't need to collapse at all as the inside shock unloads, it almost just acts as a pivot and it creates a very tippy and dangerous handling. With proper shock angle, COs tilted inward enough that 90* is never surpassed, the outside CO during a corner will fight body roll all the way to the bump stop, it really is amazing how much more stable that feels.

Get as much angle as you can but don't get frustrated if you can't achieve the perfect shock angle. It's nearly impossible without seriously narrowed frame sections on a TJ and full width axles. A sway bar can be used to assist and valving and spring stops can be adjusted as well to compensate for unwelcome body role. I've got as much as I can fit but mine still open just a bit past 90 at full flex.

I've got a illustration to show correct shock angle I made for other members who have asked me, I'll have to see if it's still on my computer in the morning, that might help you visualize the info above.

I don't look for problems....They find me.

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post #1315 of 1319 Old 02-20-2015, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
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Man, these things sure got dirty at the mall!
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post #1316 of 1319 Old 02-22-2015, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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4 link all tacked up!
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post #1317 of 1319 Old 02-22-2015, 05:46 PM
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Looking good, Dan. That suspension will perform nice.

OlllllllO

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post #1318 of 1319 Old 02-03-2016, 11:20 AM
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looking good.
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post #1319 of 1319 Old 02-03-2016, 11:23 AM
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