Darth Vader Built Project - 2003 WJ - Page 4 - JeepForum.com
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post #46 of 185 Old 03-30-2018, 03:40 AM
GhostJeepWJ
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Most cases the driveshaft vibs are the front shaft. But it's not far-fetched to maybe have to put a custom length DS on the rear. It's not expensive. Rzeppa shafts do not like lifts.
The rear sway bar, an upgrade to Addco's 7/8" or 1" bar is like night and day!! Well worth it. You'll need extended bar-end links to reposition the bar to the proper angle. Zero degrees is perfect but doable up to either 35 or 45o. Also get greaseable mounts from Energy Suspensions, and do not use grade 8 bolts. You want the weak point in the mount to be the bolt, not the axle.


It's not the Destination so much as the Journey!! - Cpt. Jack Sparrow

2002 Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7 HO
2" IRO Spring Lift w/Bilstein 5100s 245/75/R17 Goodyear Armour Shield



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post #47 of 185 Old 03-30-2018, 01:05 PM Thread Starter
UncleWoody
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Thanks for the input Ghost, if I do it it will be the 7/8" since I already have the solid 30mm SB up front. Currently the rear SB angle is about 13 degrees with the extended (13 1/2") IRO links for a 4" lift. Here is an ironic little story, when I first got the kit from IRO they sent the extended links for their 6.5" lift so I contacted them and had them sent me the correct ones which is what is on the Jeep right now. I keep the original ones because I was going to send them back but now that you brought this subject up I just went to the garage and measured the original ones (14 5/8"). If I install the original ones that were shipped, I can bring the angle to about zero degrees!!!

For those members that are contemplation this kit the "longer (14 5/8 in)" links are part number 92149

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post #48 of 185 Old 03-30-2018, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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Also I took the GC to the muffler shop yesterday to have the owner look at it and see what is need to do the job. His first comment was " man, not too much space there". He will try to leave the cat where it is at and then route a small round glasspack type of muffler with a pipe out the rear. That is his first impression but we will see what happens once he really starts the work.

"If we can really understand the problem, the answer will come out of it, because the answer is not separate from the problem"
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post #49 of 185 Old 03-30-2018, 03:04 PM
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Yea looking forward to what/how they route it as I will be facing this same dilemma soon enough.

Something else you may look into, I plan on fabbing up disco's for my rear links as well. The heavier SB's will limit articulation as well.

It's not the Destination so much as the Journey!! - Cpt. Jack Sparrow

2002 Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7 HO
2" IRO Spring Lift w/Bilstein 5100s 245/75/R17 Goodyear Armour Shield



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post #50 of 185 Old 03-30-2018, 07:10 PM Thread Starter
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That is what everybody is saying about the heavier SB when on the trail. Someone on the forum also mentioned that you will only need to disco one side to free it up. A disco will also be my approach when I switch to the ADDCO bar.

"If we can really understand the problem, the answer will come out of it, because the answer is not separate from the problem"
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post #51 of 185 Old 03-30-2018, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWoody View Post
Just got back from the alignment shop, they set caster to 5.5 degrees, set the pinion angles and squared the arms; they were a bit off. The only thing that they flag was that I have a rear drive shaft vibration at acceleration, the shop claims that I might need a double cardan drive shaft for the rear. I do not recollect reading anything about this on the forum (needs research). What do you guys think?

The other thing that is on the back of my head is whether to upgrade the rear sway bar. Driving back and forth to the shop I noticed a bit of roll but I am not sure yet. I probably need to drive it more to get acquainted with the vehicle behavior and tendencies and then make a decision.
Try dropping your rear pinion a degree or so and see if the acceleration vibe improves. A degree or so down or possibly up could fix your vibe.
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post #52 of 185 Old 03-30-2018, 09:38 PM
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Yea that's correct. One thing I think is weird is, no one offers them for the rear SB. My plan is to fit a set of JKS from the front onto the rear. I'm running the 1" Addco.

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Originally Posted by UncleWoody View Post
That is what everybody is saying about the heavier SB when on the trail. Someone on the forum also mentioned that you will only need to disco one side to free it up. A disco will also be my approach when I switch to the ADDCO bar.

It's not the Destination so much as the Journey!! - Cpt. Jack Sparrow

2002 Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7 HO
2" IRO Spring Lift w/Bilstein 5100s 245/75/R17 Goodyear Armour Shield



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post #53 of 185 Old 03-31-2018, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
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Today i decided to work on a couple of things, first I swapped the rear sway bar links as previously stated. Now the SB angle sits at 5 degrees instead of the 13 degrees with the shorter links. I also decided to check on the tire pressure of the new tires, they were all over the place from 40 pounds to 37 pounds. I reset them to 35 lbs all around. The guy at the alignment shop recommended that I should put them at 28-32 lbs. Time will tell what is right.

The main item was the initial front bumper trim! As I previously stated I want to go in stages because once you cut there is no going back. With the discos on there was some rubbing when turning sharp and in reverse. Pictures 1 and 2 shows how much clearance there was when the Jeep sat level. Picture 3 shows how the front tire dug into the bottom of the bumper when the axle was raised on one side and I took off the discos. Picture 4 shows the rubbing points on the inside liner add where my cut line was going to be. Picture 5 shows what the initial cut line was going to be. I outlined 1" from the edge from the top and all around the bumper until I hit the slats on the bottom of the bumper. Where you see the 2 1/2" mark is where I started deviating from the 1' line to get a nice transition to the lines of the fender. Picture 6 shows all the cuts to the inside liner and to the bumper. Picture 7 is the final product. I will start with this setup and adjust as I go along.
Attached Thumbnails
Bumper trim 1.jpg   Bumper trim 2.jpg   Bumper trim 3.jpg   Bumper trim 4.jpg   Bumper trim 5.jpg  

Bumper trim 6.jpg   Bumper trim 7.jpg  

"If we can really understand the problem, the answer will come out of it, because the answer is not separate from the problem"
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post #54 of 185 Old 03-31-2018, 08:45 PM
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Within 10 mins from your house there are countless trails, and forest service roads!
Take it out for a few hrs, disconnect and find out what needs trimming !!!
Much more FUN!!!


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post #55 of 185 Old 04-03-2018, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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I was thinking going to "Broken Arrow" in Sedona. I already did the "Schnebly Hill Road" one from I-17 to Sedona when it was in stock form. That was my first ever, during the middle of the ride my wife said "get this Jeep done and ready for more trails".
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"If we can really understand the problem, the answer will come out of it, because the answer is not separate from the problem"
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post #56 of 185 Old 04-10-2018, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Well I finally got a chance to test the Jeep after the trimming job, it was a good news bad news scenario. I got a very tight turn and high slope driveway to my bottom level workshop, you can see it on the pictures of post #42. The trim worked to correct the rubbing upfront and when backing up but now on full turn the tires are rubbing against the sway bay links. I need to take a look and see if the links pins (JKS) can be moved to the inward side of the sway bar. During the drive today it was not an issue since I didn't have to go lock to lock.

I also had the opportunity to test it at a higher speed, 65-70mph, it feels a little unstable if I jerk the steering wheel a bit. It could be due to the spring rate of the IRO springs (softer than others) and the new COG. Like GhostJeepWJ suggested I am now very seriously considering an ADDCO bar for the rear.

"If we can really understand the problem, the answer will come out of it, because the answer is not separate from the problem"
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post #57 of 185 Old 04-10-2018, 10:17 PM
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When some of these guys with 4 to 6in lifts say ..."It rides a drives better than stock", it does not!
U changed all the suspension and raised the center of gravity!
Don't jerk the wheel at 65 or 70 mph! (Smooth inputs)
addco bar will help, but its a lifted jeep, they weren't built to handle.
I've had mine over 100mph a few times out there, with one hand on the wheel, but i am used to how the jeep handles
You'll get use to it.

Lets see what they did to the exhaust!
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post #58 of 185 Old 04-10-2018, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
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Nothing yet on the exhaust, my appointment is until Monday the 16th.

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post #59 of 185 Old 04-11-2018, 03:34 AM
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Mike's right, plus I'll add the same thing to the addition of a much thicker rear SB. Yes, it took care of MOST of my tail wag but the descriptions I read from others were "it's night and day", "OMG it's amazing". But like I said, it did make a difference but not like some described. So don't expect it to cure everything back there. Like Mike said, it's lifted and the geometry of the ride has changed. By all rights, it's a completely different vehicle once it gets above 4".
Most importantly when it comes to the SB, the angle in which it sits is everything! The lateral movement of the Jeep applies energy to the outer parts of the bar. The 90o bends at each end are designed to absorb this energy. That's why it is important to have the bar as close to zero degrees as possible, with an allowance up to 30-40 degrees. This is where the extended end-links come into play.
Another thing ( I think I mentioned this to you before) do not use strong bolts such as grade-8, you want your bolt to be the weak part of the equation. I'd rather replace a bolt then an axle housing.
Now having said all that, definitely get one!....lol You'll like the results and so will Darth Vader!

It's not the Destination so much as the Journey!! - Cpt. Jack Sparrow

2002 Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7 HO
2" IRO Spring Lift w/Bilstein 5100s 245/75/R17 Goodyear Armour Shield



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post #60 of 185 Old 04-11-2018, 07:55 AM
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Im at 6" and I can say mine doesnt handle like stock, but the overall ride is very smooth (Clayton FTW !!!) . The #1 thing I chased after lifting my jeep was the horrible steering, to me that was the instability and almost made me sell it until I bit the bullet and tried what I thought was a gimmic - The IRO Steering Stabilizer kit. Dont let anyone tell you stories about a dropped pitman arm unless they also dropped the trackbar or did the tie rod flip.

After I did that is truly was night and day for me.

As for the Addco .... im testing my setup currently without it and cant tell the difference. Main reason was my rear links are too short (from the 4" kit) and what I though was my rear shocks popping is actually the links because they are at too high of an angle.

From what Im reading, most above 4.5" ditch the ADDCO rear

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