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post #1 of 12 Old 07-26-2021, 12:57 PM Thread Starter
variable
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three link control arms

Searching for "3 link" doesn't work unfortunately as the forum won't search for single character queries, so if this is covered somewhere, feel free to beat me over the head with it. I feel like I preface most of my forum posts this way... lol

Taking a break from engine idle issues... Not too long ago I upgraded the control arms in the front to a clayton long arm 3 link with the truss. I have some things left to do like re-locating the sway bar brackets as they rub the steering linkage a small amount when I'm at full lock turning right, re-evaluate the spring/shock/bump stop combo I have now, and some other odds and ends.

As it is, for city/freeway driving, everything clears/doesn't interfere in a negative way. The short of it is that when I'm on the freeway, the if I hit a bump in the road - not a pot hole, but like a dip - the front of the vehicle (I haven't done the long arms in the rear yet) will move in such a way that the front passenger side would seem to travel more than the left, and as a result, the front end cycles like, diagonally causing the front to travel unevenly. Its hard to describe without showing you - I'll try and grab the go pro or something see if I can capture it. I would have expected this if the track bar and steering linkage weren't parallel, but they are as far as I can tell. The only real change in the front end with regards to steering is that I moved away from the drag link to a Rugged Ridge 18050.82 steering kit. I have some gripes about this thing as the tie rod boots keep eating themselves because of some stupid design - as a result, this may be a temporary issue as I'll probably upgrade to the WJ knuckles - but I don't think thats related. What I'm unsure of is if the whole parallel thing is intended to apply to the 'non-drag link' setup or not. The pictures I've seen seem to indicate that the parallel thing applies to either, but I'm not sure.

I'm also curious if this is a quirk of it being a 3-link instead of the 4 link I'm used to, and/or if I should maybe have gone with radius arms instead. It just feels somewhat unsafe on the freeway - I certainly wouldn't want someone else to drive the thing, at least I've been getting used to it and can somewhat predict it...


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post #2 of 12 Old 07-26-2021, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by variable View Post
Searching for "3 link" doesn't work unfortunately as the forum won't search for single character queries, so if this is covered somewhere, feel free to beat me over the head with it. I feel like I preface most of my forum posts this way... lol

Taking a break from engine idle issues... Not too long ago I upgraded the control arms in the front to a clayton long arm 3 link with the truss. I have some things left to do like re-locating the sway bar brackets as they rub the steering linkage a small amount when I'm at full lock turning right, re-evaluate the spring/shock/bump stop combo I have now, and some other odds and ends.

As it is, for city/freeway driving, everything clears/doesn't interfere in a negative way. The short of it is that when I'm on the freeway, the if I hit a bump in the road - not a pot hole, but like a dip - the front of the vehicle (I haven't done the long arms in the rear yet) will move in such a way that the front passenger side would seem to travel more than the left, and as a result, the front end cycles like, diagonally causing the front to travel unevenly. Its hard to describe without showing you - I'll try and grab the go pro or something see if I can capture it. I would have expected this if the track bar and steering linkage weren't parallel, but they are as far as I can tell. The only real change in the front end with regards to steering is that I moved away from the drag link to a Rugged Ridge 18050.82 steering kit. I have some gripes about this thing as the tie rod boots keep eating themselves because of some stupid design - as a result, this may be a temporary issue as I'll probably upgrade to the WJ knuckles - but I don't think thats related. What I'm unsure of is if the whole parallel thing is intended to apply to the 'non-drag link' setup or not. The pictures I've seen seem to indicate that the parallel thing applies to either, but I'm not sure.

I'm also curious if this is a quirk of it being a 3-link instead of the 4 link I'm used to, and/or if I should maybe have gone with radius arms instead. It just feels somewhat unsafe on the freeway - I certainly wouldn't want someone else to drive the thing, at least I've been getting used to it and can somewhat predict it...

I'm on IRO 3 link and it rides nice so that's not your issue.


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post #3 of 12 Old 07-27-2021, 03:24 PM
Timo_90xj
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You always want the draglink and trackbar parallel between their pivot points, both as flat (horizontal) as reasonably possible*, and their lengths as close to each other as possible.

All of those mentioned above apply for inverted-T, inverted-Y and true crossover steering. They all help keeping the front suspension and steering in balance, while preventing bumpsteer, DW and bad handling.

*trackbar axle end preferably mounted as high as possible for higher roll center height, as close to vehicle COG height. This will help reducing body roll when cornering and off-camber stuff on trails.

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post #4 of 12 Old 07-27-2021, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo_90xj View Post
You always want the draglink and trackbar parallel between their pivot points, both as flat (horizontal) as reasonably possible*, and their lengths as close to each other as possible.

All of those mentioned above apply for inverted-T, inverted-Y and true crossover steering. They all help keeping the front suspension and steering in balance, while preventing bumpsteer, DW and bad handling.

*trackbar axle end preferably mounted as high as possible for higher roll center height, as close to vehicle COG height. This will help reducing body roll when cornering and off-camber stuff on trails.
I think the key word in that is the high mounting point nearer to the COG (which mine is not). I don't know why it didn't occur to me, but I think I'm experiencing bump steer. Derp..

Here's how it looks under there (I rotated the steering stabilizer after taking this shot so just ignore that bit). I'll have to look into re-locating the trackbar mount (it rubs a little anyway, this gives me another reason). I'm not sure what to do about the steering link though if I relocate the trackbar mount on the axle..
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post #5 of 12 Old 07-27-2021, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by variable View Post
I think the key word in that is the high mounting point nearer to the COG (which mine is not). I don't know why it didn't occur to me, but I think I'm experiencing bump steer. Derp..

Here's how it looks under there (I rotated the steering stabilizer after taking this shot so just ignore that bit). I'll have to look into re-locating the trackbar mount (it rubs a little anyway, this gives me another reason). I'm not sure what to do about the steering link though if I relocate the trackbar mount on the axle..

You're going to have to do over the knuckle steering.


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post #6 of 12 Old 07-27-2021, 05:00 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, the kit that's on there now I'm not very happy with, it had bad instructions for the amount of torque needed and it eats tie rod boots for some reason. What is more annoying is that I replaced the ball joints this year which wasn't especially fun.. Best upgrade/value there for over the knuckle from what I've read is swapping the WJ knuckles in yeah? I kind of need to replace them anyway as the brake pads have left a notch in their perch and doing a filling weld didn't work as well as I'd hoped.

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post #7 of 12 Old 07-27-2021, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by variable View Post
Yeah, the kit that's on there now I'm not very happy with, it had bad instructions for the amount of torque needed and it eats tie rod boots for some reason. What is more annoying is that I replaced the ball joints this year which wasn't especially fun.. Best upgrade/value there for over the knuckle from what I've read is swapping the WJ knuckles in yeah? I kind of need to replace them anyway as the brake pads have left a notch in their perch and doing a filling weld didn't work as well as I'd hoped.

Always something...

The WJ knuckle swap is great because not only do you get better steering but you get way better brakes too. Akebono brakes are the ones you want. The first year WJs had problems with the brakes and they fixed it later.


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post #8 of 12 Old 07-28-2021, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by PolkaPower View Post
The WJ knuckle swap is great because not only do you get better steering but you get way better brakes too.
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Isnt the lug pattern different on the WJ brakes?

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post #9 of 12 Old 07-28-2021, 09:08 AM
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WJ swap uses ZJ unit hubs to retain bolt pattern.


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post #10 of 12 Old 07-28-2021, 05:43 PM
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So all you would need the knuckle, caliper, and pads?

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post #11 of 12 Old 07-28-2021, 09:41 PM
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So all you would need the knuckle, caliper, and pads?

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There's a spacer that gets welded on too. Google wj brake conversion kit.


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post #12 of 12 Old 07-28-2021, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Puddles View Post
So all you would need the knuckle, caliper, and pads?
WJ knuckle swap is NOT a bolt- on thing, not even close to that.


Knuckles, caliper brackets (Akebono), calipers (Akebono), brake discs + redrilling them to accept 5 x 4.5" pattern, TREs of your choice (WJ stuff works), custom-length draglink and tierod (DIY, have a machine shop do it, or get one of the kits available on-line); swaybar endlink brackets may need modifications.

If you're wanting to keep ABS, you need to drill a hole in a specigic location into both of the knuckles, and fab a bracket for the ABS sensor that goes between knuckle and caliper bracket.

If you decide to go OTK steering - which is a really good idea on a lifted vehicle - you drill the TRE holes in the knuckles and install/ weld machined flip inserts into the holes.

With OTk steering, trackbar axle bracket needs to be relocated to achieve proper draglink/ trackbar geometry - you need a different (DIY/ custom modified) trackbar to work with a raised trackbar mount. It gets pretty tight in there with steering linkage, trackbar, swaybar endlinks and upper control arm brackets, so frameside trackbar bracket may need modification. Swaybar endlink brackets on the axle need to be modified.


All that being said, if you go OTK steering with XJ/ZJ/TJ OEM steering & brakes, trackbar and related mods are needed just as well. If you build a custom axle, pretty much all the work mentioned above is needed.

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***Under construction***
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