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post #1 of 40 Old 10-24-2018, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
muddflow
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K&N filters

I found some new paper air filters for a recently purchased 95 ZJ 4.0L , and also a used K&N for $13.00 thats been recently oiled and cleaned.

I'm not familiar with oiled air filters and wondering how often will it be need to be cleaned and re-oiled in a non dusty, non-off road environment ? (i'm located in an area of higher humidity and ~70 in. annual precipitation)

I see K&N has 8 oz bottles of their oil and cleaning kits for around $10.00

I'm wondering how many ounces of oil is required and how often the reusable oil air filter needs re-oiling maintenance?

I'm not certain how these oil air filters compare to paper filters, which may do better at filtering smaller particles depending on the paper or celluouse filter quality.

But thought I'd give the used one million mile K&N oil filter a try to see if might possibly save some money on purchasing air filters.

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post #2 of 40 Old 10-24-2018, 05:05 PM
Mr. Puddles
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Non dusty environment you can run it 6 months or so without cleaning it. You can buy the oil separately from the kit (did so at oreillys some 6 months or so back) and you can clean it with any non corrosive shelf bought degreaser. Last time around I did it with Purple Power. As far as how much oil its difficult to give a solid answer as it varies based on filter shape. It doesn't take a whole lot to do it.

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post #3 of 40 Old 10-24-2018, 06:52 PM
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The paper filters do a much better job than the oiled type. I’d just run the normal ones.
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post #4 of 40 Old 10-24-2018, 11:55 PM Thread Starter
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The K&N are different than paper as they use 4 layers of oiled cotton to capture particles.

I haven't really seen any specs similar to engine oil filters on either type of air filter. Wix air filters do have a CFM specification. Paper air filters are usually noted to be better for trapping smaller particles, but require changing more frequently.

K&N manufactures filters for racing so air flow is important. Stock disposable paper filter are designed to capture a certain amount of particles and then thrown away. In the long run paper and cellulose filters cost more and if not replaced soon enough an engine will be starving for air.

K&N filters are designed differently than paper & cellulose filters. The capturing of dirt and dust particles actually enhances filtering without sacrificing air flow. K&N filters are basically designed to filter better as they become dirty-er where at some point of becoming dirty-er need to be cleaned and oiled again.

I was told by someone who used K&N filters, under normal driving conditions, you can expect up to 50,000 miles between cleaning and oiling a K&N filter.

I would like to see some actually comparative testing results. it wouldn't be that difficult to compare the two different types of filters.

K&N does have some interesting information about air filters

https://www.knfilters.com/filter_facts.htm

Paper vs K&N https://www.knfilters.com/filter_facts.htm#PAPER
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post #5 of 40 Old 10-25-2018, 08:48 AM
JonS
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Dry is the way to go. K&N oiled filters sometimes screw up MAFs.


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post #6 of 40 Old 10-25-2018, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by JonS View Post
Dry is the way to go. K&N oiled filters sometimes screw up MAFs.
Yup.....

Part of the problem, people tend to over oil. The excess oil gets pulled into the intake and starts to deposit on the MAF.

Filter is cheaper and does just as well, if not better.

A K&N will do NOTHING for improving gas mileage.....


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post #7 of 40 Old 10-25-2018, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by HighLonesome View Post
They filter better when they are dirty? What a load of BS. So they don't filter very well when they are clean?
In fairness this isnt the first time I have heard this. IIRC the last time was from a K&N rep. Basically the air gaps in the clean media are are larger than the paper design. As the filter begins trapping dirt the holes begin the shrink causing more dirt to be captured.

In fact its on their website

https://www.knfilters.com/filter_facts.htm

Scroll to the first image and read point 4.

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post #8 of 40 Old 10-25-2018, 09:03 AM
jtec
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AVOID MIRACLE MAGNETS AND FILTERS AS WELL AS TORNADO AIR DEVICES.

https://nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html
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When I see the price of OEM I think aftermarket.
When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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post #9 of 40 Old 10-25-2018, 09:03 AM
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Dry is the way to go. K&N oiled filters sometimes screw up MAFs.
Quick shot of electrical parts cleaner will fix that. Besides with the CCV sysem we use theres already so much junk pulled into the intake....

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post #10 of 40 Old 10-25-2018, 01:02 PM
jtec
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40+ years turning wrenches, K&N and the oiled air filters are one of the few parts I have seen the manufacturers caution about and allude to denial of warranty if found being used.

Avoid this product, especially if there is a MAF sensor, the criteria for oiling is subjective. And not worth the warranty denial, problematic performance and expense for the pennies saved if any.

I can guess they have a place in off road specific racing but - limited benefits, just get the decal it will provide same performance .
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When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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post #11 of 40 Old 10-25-2018, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
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I'll probably just keep the K&N as a backup filter. Better to be using the K&N than no filter at all.

With my XJ what I did was find a wholesale closeout from rock auto for MOTORCRAFT FA1787 (Daily Driver) paper filters for under $2.00 each and ordered a dozen. Total with shipping came to $26.58, ($2.22 each)

For the ZJ I'm not familiar with the less expensive brands and the cost of shipping has gone up.

Currently they have a less expensive filter that's not a whole sale close out

PREMIUM GUARD PA4727 for $2.62 each x 12 = $31.44 plus $13.99 for shipping = $45.43 / 12 = $3.79 each.

Some of the less expensive filters use a media that's the same or similar to a Fram or Wix where the main difference is the rubber and pieces used to hold the filter together. Perhaps do the same sort of filtering with the similar pleating only they may try to save on manufacturing cost in the filters construction.

If could find a good deal on a dozen wix filters I'd go with Wix.

I also find good deals on engine oil filters such a Mobil one and Amsoil, have at least a dozen Mobile one extended filters and a dozen Amsoil filters, that fit both the XJ and the ZJ.

Some paper filters do have better filtering media, pleating and overall design. however the cost is usually 2, 3, 4+ times higher.

Rock Auto air filters for the 95 ZJ

Economy ----

ULTRA-POWER 46213 {#53007386} $2.47
PREMIUM GUARD PA4727 $2.62
PRO-TEC 323 $2.65 (wholesale closeout only 2 left)
PENTIUS PAB7440 $3.36
BOSCH 5486WS $4.07
CHAMPION LABS AF7845 $6.08

=== Daily Driver
HASTINGS CFA136 S Engine Code $4.51
HASTINGS AF136 $9.94
DENSO 1433261 $10.24
MAHLE/CLEVITE LX1272 $11.33
FRAM CA7440 $13.10
ACDELCO A1267C $13.55
WIX 46213 $13.86
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post #12 of 40 Old 10-25-2018, 08:45 PM
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Oh for God's sake and the piece in the neighborhood, buy A paper filter
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post #13 of 40 Old 10-26-2018, 12:16 AM
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There's tons of A/B testing of K&N vs Paper. The K&N does NOT filter as well as even the cheapest of paper filters. It does flow better.

It's good for racing. You rebuild motors often in racing. You need high air flow in racing. But if you plan on longevity, just get a paper filter.

You can find comparisons on filter efficiency all across the internet. If looking for the cheapest price, then just buy the cheapest paper filters you can.
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post #14 of 40 Old 10-26-2018, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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Your comments have validity as K&N filters are designed more for air flow than filtering.

However when were talking about about actual filtering in regards to microns and filtering efficiency there are paper filters that have poor filtering efficiency and don't capture enough dirt particles in the 10 to 20 micron size.

To know actual differences between K&N and different brands of paper filters most likely you will need to perform you own testing or have access to actual test data in order to determine these differences.

I would prefer to see some test results, actual experiences rather than here that K&N doesn't filter like a paper filter and paper is better at filtering than air flow. That we already know.

Also I think K&N is hyped to sell a racing filter for race cars that need the additional air flow to win races. They market them also for standard vehicles in order to sell more filters.

I think overall a paper filter is going to filter better than an oiled cotton filter. However I would prefer to see some actual test result to determine how much better paper is filtering and which brands of paper filters have the best filtering. The paper filters should also have some specifications that include cfm air flow such as does Wix. filters.

Air filters are different from other vehicle filters that filter oil. There seems to be more information about automobile engine oil filters than auto engine air filters.

If you want to really reduced contamination of engine oil all you need to do is install a by-pass filter that filters a smaller percentage of the oil over time. I have an Amsoil by pass filter that I never installed. With a bypass filter installed you can go quite a long time between oil and filter changes.

Air filters use fresh air that's not recirculated where as an oil filter is filtering the same over again. Air filters manufactures must perform some of their own tests to determine if an air filter is working or not. However air filter manufactures have more interest in optimizing filters to clean the air humans breath rather than cleaning air for an automobile engine.

I recently purchased a Champion Labs AF7845 off eBay appears to be similar to a Wix. After making a best offer total cost with shipping $9.00.


Another filter I'm seeing for under $8.00 is

FIBROUS ENGINE AIR FILTER 16546-7S000 *also listed as NANOFLO™ FIBROUS engine air filter.)

I'm uncertain of the differences between paper, fibrous and foam? Paper seems to be the better filtering medium

I may pick one of these up as well. Some of the air filters for auto engines appear they're over changing, perhaps they don't sell enough to keep prices more reasonable.
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post #15 of 40 Old 10-30-2018, 07:33 PM
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I get a kick reading these types of threads.

I've been running cheap oil filters and K&N air filters in my 5 or so running vehicles forever (ok, just the 34 years I've been driving). So far the only engine that has died on me was a Buick V6 that I ran past the red line for *ahem* a while and smoked the back two rod bearings.

I got every one of my K&N filters for cheap off ebay or at a junkyard. I've went tens of thousands of miles between cleanings.

I've got nothing against paper filters, I've ran them when I was to lazy to immediately clean a K&N and had a paper one on the shelf. After cleaning and oiling, I've put the K&N back in.

A little common sense goes a long way. I oil the cleaned filter and then let it sit for a day or two and excess oil will run off.

I believe K&N has specs for every filter they sell on their website, including how much oil should be used on each one.

My Silverado 2500HD with the 6.0 gas engine just went over 300,000 miles on (GASP) cheap engine oil, cheap oil filters, and a K&N air filter.

Bottom line, I think actually doing preventative maintenance (like oil changes) on a regular schedule has more effect on engine longevity than using the most expensive oil and filters you can find and sticking with OEM air filters.
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