Jeep 46RH transmission seems to neutralize - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 33 Old 05-05-2018, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
roger200x
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Jeep 46RH transmission seems to neutralize

Ive got a 95 ZJ grand cherokee orvis edition with the 5.2 v8, selectrac NP242 and 46rh transmission

It seems that at idle only if you are at a stop sign or just coasting then get back into it the transmission is in neutral and spins then catches inside and engages. It does not do this all the time and does it regardless of temp. Tranny does not slip gear to gear or under load at all and fluid is in perfect shape. Had a fluid/filter change a year ago when I changed the pan gasket. It had done it before the pan gasket also.

It really doesnt seem like a slip at all but almost like a snowmobile or UTV/ATV with a CVT clutch transmission and a belt.... you rev it up and it engages. It doesnt do it all the time and itll always spin both back tires and pull anything I want to, it never neutralizes or slips if you stay in the throttle.

The jeep does idle low sometimes (new IAC and egr unhooked and vacuum plugged - egr solenoid is bad and will open the valve as soon as jeep is started if hooked up) - I wonder if it sees the rpms drop and disengages the trans until the rpms pick back up or if theres a solenoid bad that engages / disengages the pressure to the clutch pack or maybe a leak in a gasket that must be overcome by revving it to make more flow/pressure.

anyone been down this road?

thanks!

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post #2 of 33 Old 05-05-2018, 07:47 PM
wingless
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There are many modes that are manually and automatically selected when operating the 46RH transmission.

It is possible to utilize the selector lever to manually place the transmission into neutral at a stop sign, or manually select neutral when coasting, but those are not typical modes when operating the vehicle.

The normal mode is to select D - Drive when going forward and have the transmission choose the appropriate gear based on conditions.

My guess is that the faults being described are happening during normal / typical operation mode, when the selector lever is placed in D - Drive. Is that correct?

If so, then when the vehicle is stationary at a stop sign, or when the vehicle is moving, but the gas pedal is not depressed, then the transmission is NOT in neutral, it is in a gear, selected by the transmission based on the conditions. When the vehicle is stationary at a stop sign, the transmission is in the first gear and the torque converter permits the engine to idle while the wheels are stationary, using ATF+4 fluid directing force past the torque converter vanes.

Use the FSM to identify the possible cause for the fault condition.

In all cases one possible cause is the fluid level. Has the fluid level been properly verified?

Has only ATF+4 fluid been used in the vehicle?

The FSM has a series of tests and measurements listed to identify the problem(s).


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post #3 of 33 Old 05-06-2018, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
roger200x
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Wingless- yes atf+4 is the only fluid as far as I know. I chnaged it a year ago with castrol atf+4. The guy that had it before me gave me a couple quarts of +4 with it cuz it leaked some so I woukd guess he used the proper fluid also. I have had this zj about 2 yrs.

Yes- it happens in notmal D drive mode.

What is a FSM? The only thing i can come up with is ford service manual lol (im a ford guy, this is my first jeep) ohhhh factory service manual? Duh... anyone have that for the

I cant make it act up if i try to its random and strange...
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post #4 of 33 Old 05-06-2018, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingless View Post
In all cases one possible cause is the fluid level. Has the fluid level been properly verified?
According to the FSM, this is the way to verify the ATF fluid level.

  1. Position vehicle on level ground.
  2. Operate engine at idle speed.
  3. Apply parking brake.
  4. Place gear selector in N (neutral).
  5. Remove dipstick from tube. Wipe it clean and determine if ATF is hot or warm.
    Hot ATF has a temperature of approximately 82C (180F). Warm ATF is when its temperature is between 29-52C (85-125F),
  6. Wipe dipstick clean and completely insert it into tube. Remove dipstick from tube and observe ATF evel.
  7. If ATF is hot, level should be in crosshatched area that is marked OK.
  8. If ATF is warm, level should be between two dimples.
    CAUTION: Do not overfill transmission.
  9. Adjust level of ATF accordingly.
    EDIT: Use only ATF+4 fluid.
  10. Insert dipstick into tube.


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post #5 of 33 Old 05-06-2018, 01:50 PM
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Sounds like low fluid or a torque converter issue.

Follow wingless' advice and hopefully that will fix it.
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post #6 of 33 Old 05-07-2018, 10:16 AM Thread Starter
roger200x
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Yes the fluid level is correct and in the crosshatch after warmed up in neutral with it idling.
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post #7 of 33 Old 05-07-2018, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger200x View Post
The jeep does idle low sometimes (new IAC and egr unhooked and vacuum plugged - egr solenoid is bad and will open the valve as soon as jeep is started if hooked up) - I wonder if it sees the rpms drop and disengages the trans until the rpms pick back up or if theres a solenoid bad that engages / disengages the pressure to the clutch pack or maybe a leak in a gasket that must be overcome by revving it to make more flow/pressure.
The FSM lists a dozen possible causes for delayed engagement.

One is idle speed too low.

Follow the FSM diagnostics.


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post #8 of 33 Old 05-07-2018, 11:23 AM
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Factory Service Manual...

I only know the basics with transmissions. As wingless said, you need to reference the FSM for testing. Ive got to wonder if something is amiss with the pump and its losing pressure at idle which is causing it to drop out of gear till you rev it up. From what I understand, there are ports on the transmission to check pressures.

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1998 ZJ 5.9 w/65,155 mi Slate Black
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post #9 of 33 Old 05-07-2018, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Anyone have a link to the FSM to download? I did a search and came up short
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post #10 of 33 Old 05-07-2018, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger200x View Post
Anyone have a link to the FSM to download? I did a search and came up short
I was able to get a free instant pdf download for the '98 ZJ FSM from searching this site. Unfortunately, I did not save the link, but it is there somewhere.
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post #11 of 33 Old 05-07-2018, 08:04 PM
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Here is a printed FSM set, there are several others available.


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post #12 of 33 Old 05-07-2018, 08:13 PM
mkm5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger200x View Post
Anyone have a link to the FSM to download? I did a search and came up short
I was able to get a free instant pdf download for the '98 ZJ FSM from searching this site. Unfortunately, I did not save the link, but it is there somewhere.
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post #13 of 33 Old 05-07-2018, 08:24 PM
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Overrunning clutch?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf ZJ Transmission.pdf (522.0 KB, 18 views)
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post #14 of 33 Old 02-18-2019, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
roger200x
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Sorry this hasnt been updated in a while... i have had some things come up.

The problem is getting much worse now... happens when i come to a stop or idle gets low now. Im gonna try to get a gauge to test pressures.

My engine idles low and stumbly quite often and the lower the rpms the worse it is. 500-600 rpms and as low as 400 at times.


Also my speedometer is getting worse, it acts like a broken tooth where it jumps around intermittently al all speeds now. Ill have to pull the sensor and check the gear and sensor wiring.

So many things going on in my life and i just dont need this issue right now.
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post #15 of 33 Old 02-19-2019, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger200x View Post
The problem is getting much worse now... happens when i come to a stop or idle gets low now. Im gonna try to get a gauge to test pressures.
All is normal, it will continue to get worse, until repaired, then it gets better (normal). It might need to idle properly during pressure reading, I don't remember now, follow the FSM.


Quote:
Originally Posted by roger200x View Post
My engine idles low and stumbly quite often and the lower the rpms the worse it is. 500-600 rpms and as low as 400 at times.
It would be good to fix that too...


Quote:
Originally Posted by roger200x View Post
Also my speedometer is getting worse, it acts like a broken tooth where it jumps around intermittently al all speeds now. Ill have to pull the sensor and check the gear and sensor wiring.
The speedometer gear has four rotational installation orientations. Check when removing to save time at installation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by roger200x View Post
So many things going on in my life and i just dont need this issue right now.
Sounds like bad stuff. Hang in there.


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