Info wanted: Electric cooling fans - JeepForum.com
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 01-07-2015, 08:02 AM Thread Starter
Scrubberguy
Registered User
1997 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pomona
Posts: 163
Info wanted: Electric cooling fans

Well I have finally got the 97 ZJ working right, knock on wood, and am now on a quest to see if I can squeeze a few more MPG out of a gallon of gas.

Past experience has shown that the fan is a big HP draw and switching to electric fans has netted a better "feel" and a little better MPG.

The question is has anyone here done a swap?


What I am looking for is either a new bolt in replacement or a donor car / truck that is a bolt in.

I've done the complete "re engineering" and honestly I'm looking for the easy way out here if possible.

Scrubberguy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 01-07-2015, 01:29 PM
SchizophrenicMC
Registered User
2016 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Arlington
Posts: 3,723
There have been numerous different e-fan setups in ZJs, and I don't know of anybody who ultimately kept theirs. Even swapping in the setup from the 5.9 Limited has had mixed results.

It's just like doing an e-fan setup on any other vehicle, only I hear a lot of mess about poor reliability.

I'll say, when I tried an e-fan swap, I used the fan from a WJ, didn't have enough clearance with the water pump, and the fan drew so much power, the Jeep would die if I turned the headlights on while the fan was running. And there's the real rub of it: you won't gain any mpg from running e-fans over a clutch fan. They're still drawing power from the engine, only now they're taking power from the alternator, rather than the water pump pulley. And if your fan clutch is in good shape, the fan won't draw any power at speed.

1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited
2016 Wrangler Unlimited Sahara Edition

Signature rules are dumb
SchizophrenicMC is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 01-07-2015, 03:26 PM
jm8881
Registered User
1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Palm Desert
Posts: 996
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchizophrenicMC View Post
There have been numerous different e-fan setups in ZJs, and I don't know of anybody who ultimately kept theirs. Even swapping in the setup from the 5.9 Limited has had mixed results.

It's just like doing an e-fan setup on any other vehicle, only I hear a lot of mess about poor reliability.

I'll say, when I tried an e-fan swap, I used the fan from a WJ, didn't have enough clearance with the water pump, and the fan drew so much power, the Jeep would die if I turned the headlights on while the fan was running. And there's the real rub of it: you won't gain any mpg from running e-fans over a clutch fan. They're still drawing power from the engine, only now they're taking power from the alternator, rather than the water pump pulley. And if your fan clutch is in good shape, the fan won't draw any power at speed.
I have had zero trouble with mine and I live in the desert.

You can read about my swap here: https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/a...s-fan-1530441/
jm8881 is offline  
 
post #4 of 14 Old 01-07-2015, 04:48 PM
SchizophrenicMC
Registered User
2016 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Arlington
Posts: 3,723
I think the primary problems people have run into are with the fan controls. Aftermarket thermostatic controls are incredibly hit-or-miss, and manual switched fans are inconvenient at best. Always-on fans will reduce fuel economy and put stress on the vehicle charging system.

How did you power the fan in your build? I see a 2-speed relay, but how did you switch the relays on and off?

1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited
2016 Wrangler Unlimited Sahara Edition

Signature rules are dumb
SchizophrenicMC is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 01-07-2015, 04:49 PM
kg6mov
Hears the voices
 
kg6mov's Avatar
1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cupertino
Posts: 16,068
I'm not getting rid of my setup anytime soon, but I also have very specific reasons for why I wanted one and the way I use it. It's definitely not a one size fits all swap.

My setup here: https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/n...l#post23637601


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1984 F250, 460 BB, T19, work truck/future tow pig
1987 Mercedes 300D Turbo, the diesel daily, 30mpg in style

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas ZJ1 View Post
I heard someone yell "mall crawler" from the back porch. I'll go see who said that. Be right back.
kg6mov is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 01-07-2015, 04:58 PM
dean477
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchizophrenicMC View Post
you won't gain any mpg from running e-fans over a clutch fan. They're still drawing power from the engine, only now they're taking power from the alternator, rather than the water pump pulley.
Just to clarify because I've heard that argument before. Will I get better MPG's with my fan(not A/c), headlights/fogs, and sound system off? If so, would upgrading alternators help MPG's?

Dean
dean477 is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 01-07-2015, 05:06 PM
kg6mov
Hears the voices
 
kg6mov's Avatar
1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cupertino
Posts: 16,068
Anything but dyno numbers is speculation when it comes to losses/gains moving from mech fan to e-fan.

The theory is that at the very least an efan when off is causing little to no parasitic loss on the engine where a clutch fan would. With a good cooling system and well setup controls this could be a large percentage of driving. It's all about use case.

If you're looking for a bunch of little things to do to free up some ponies/mpgs then this is one, if you're looking for a magic bullet, keep looking and let me know when you find it.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1984 F250, 460 BB, T19, work truck/future tow pig
1987 Mercedes 300D Turbo, the diesel daily, 30mpg in style

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas ZJ1 View Post
I heard someone yell "mall crawler" from the back porch. I'll go see who said that. Be right back.
kg6mov is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 01-07-2015, 05:51 PM
SchizophrenicMC
Registered User
2016 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Arlington
Posts: 3,723
Quote:
Originally Posted by dean477 View Post
Just to clarify because I've heard that argument before. Will I get better MPG's with my fan(not A/c), headlights/fogs, and sound system off? If so, would upgrading alternators help MPG's?

Dean
In theory, yes. In practice, not likely.

If your alternator has 150a of current loads being placed on it (for the sake of round numbers) at the 12v of the vehicle's electrical system, the alternator is putting out 1800w of power, which is equal to almost 2.5hp. That assumes no losses to friction or heat. In reality the number may be higher, though mechanical-electrical conversions are generally very efficient.

Of course, making the same assumptions, if the alternator only has 75a of load being drawn, you're only using 900w, or a little over 1hp. In theory, that will cause a difference in fuel economy, but in practice 1hp isn't much on a 200hp engine.

My argument about the fan drawing power is simply to say that: the whatever you use to force air over your radiator will draw power from the engine. Whether you use a clutch, a hydraulic fan, or an electric fan, some of the engine's power will be used to drive the fan.

There are certainly benefits to using an electric fan over a clutch fan. They tend to have a very static draw, and with proper controls can be made to remove draw instantly, whereas a belt-driven fan may have a progressive decoupling action as the fan clutch cools off. Of course, you'll also lose capacity in your electrical system and you'll place additional load on the alternator, which may struggle to keep up with the load placed on it while the fan is running along with other accessories. (Which is why some luxury cars, as well as some models of WJ, use hydraulic fans, which can be decoupled from engine power via solenoid valve, but don't place load on the electrical system)

Of course, if your fan clutch is in good condition, it should cycle quickly enough that the difference will be negligible, beyond the increased rotating mass, which has a negligible effect on a stock motor's performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kg6mov
I'm not getting rid of my setup anytime soon, but I also have very specific reasons for why I wanted one and the way I use it. It's definitely not a one size fits all swap.
Your setup is also rather different from most e-fan setups, and as you said, it's for very specific reasons.


I, personally, intend to try swapping a different fan clutch and blade assembly. It is known that the 4.0l 2nd-generation Ford Explorer's fan blade and clutch will fit the 5.2 ZJ water pump and fan shroud with minimal modification. That fan is much lighter and more efficient than the ZJ fan, and the clutch it uses decouples more quickly than even the medium-duty Omix-Ada fan (which is itself quicker to decouple than the most common Hayden Cooling Severe Duty fan from the Ram 2500, which parts stores insist is the only clutch for this application). My search for alternatives continues.

1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited
2016 Wrangler Unlimited Sahara Edition

Signature rules are dumb
SchizophrenicMC is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 01-07-2015, 10:54 PM
Capt_Howdy
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 398
When I did the e-fan in my 96, I was too looking for the most reliable method. Chrysler got it right with their 5.9 e-fan setup. So I got everything for the swap and wired everything. It all ran great for about 3 weeks at which point only the fan high speed worked. Replaced the motor with the Ford swap and everything was fine for a few more weeks till again only the fan high speed worked which turned out to be the upper hose switch this time. At this point the message was clear that patching old crap is not the way to go. I replaced both hose switches and also replaced both fan relays. 4 years later and no problem since.
Capt_Howdy is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 01-07-2015, 11:28 PM
siguy
Registered User
1995 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: staten island
Posts: 41
i used a ebay fan with a cheap autozone thermo control setup and it works great
siguy is offline  
post #11 of 14 Old 01-10-2015, 09:32 AM
OldManTan
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: TWIN PEAKS
Posts: 413
I did the taurus fan with the volvo relay....liked it for a couple months and went back to the mechanical fan.
The power draw and chances of shorting out in the middle of nowhere while wheeling finally pushed me to pull it all.
I went with a 4.0 wj fan clutch from autozone since all I can find at the local autoparts stores were heavy and severe duty fan clutches. Tried the severe duty out, the Mack truck sound 100% of the time was beyond annoying. The 99 4.0 wj clutch + 180 deg thermostat keeps my 5.2 right at 210 degrees while wheeling/driving up hwy 330 to lake arrowhead. Driving around town on the weekends (since this is just my old beater/toy) stays @ 190 deg.

Overhead console said 13.2 mpg avg all city/wheeling/steep hwy grades with the electric fan, 12.7 with the new fan clutch.take it as you want, just wasn't the "OMG i am saving gas!" results I was expecting.
Butt dyno felt like it had slightly better acceleration, but no cold hard facts.
just my .02
good luck with whatever way you go.

6.5" Long arm'd front & rear. 35's. 4.56's. detroit up front lsd rear. ready to go
OldManTan is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 01-10-2015, 07:41 PM
Rikoshay
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Big D
Posts: 163
Have had my Ford Contour dual eFan setup for almost a year and haven't had any problems.

I am using the $35 AutoZone controller, but it controls two 70amp relays (taken from donor car) so that all the load goes thru the relays and NOT the controller. Others have complained that the AutoZone controller just won't last, but what do you expect if you run that much amperage thru it.

Had to replace the water pump so went ahead with this swap. Got the shorter XJ water pump from Rock Auto for $20 and a flat pulley from the junkyard for $5.

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/my-efan-zj-2716746/
Rikoshay is offline  
post #13 of 14 Old 01-10-2015, 07:48 PM
Rikoshay
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Big D
Posts: 163
And of course some whiner will jump in with their 2 cents.
Rikoshay is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 01-10-2015, 10:13 PM
chakkuchan
Registered User
1995 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: South Bend
Posts: 340
I switched last summer to a 16 1/2" flex fan (32$ at Oreilly's), not the Flex-a-lite brand but some other name, and I love it. I removed the fan shroud during the install and my Jeep actually runs cooler than with the shroud/clutch/fan OEM design. Just a little FYI, if you have the 4.0, every internet site will list the correct Flex-a-lite flex fan as the 19" one, but it hits on the transmission cooling lines even without shroud. Also get the 2" spacer for the Flex-fan while at auto store.
Attached Images
 
chakkuchan is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome