Hydraulic Lifter - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 28 Old 12-27-2019, 12:21 AM Thread Starter
Spetie
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Hydraulic Lifter

Revisiting my stuck valve issue, does anyone know if you can remove a lifter w/o removing the head? Iv been watching some 5.9 rebuild videos and one guy actually put the lifters in after the head was already on.. although minutes later he had said he wish he had done it before putting the heads on.

Just curious, thereís a large time difference in removing the intake manifold and the head to try and fish it on out....

If it can be done any special tools youíd recommend to fish it out of there?

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post #2 of 28 Old 12-27-2019, 06:36 AM
Timo_90xj
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There is enough room to replace lifters with the heads installed on the magnum engines. Just did that past summer, it's not that bad of a job.
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post #3 of 28 Old 12-27-2019, 07:29 AM
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This shows the heads on, intake plenum off, on my 5.2L ZJ.


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post #4 of 28 Old 12-27-2019, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys! This is exactly what I was looking for. Need to try and determine the amount of time Iím going to have to set aside for this project.
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post #5 of 28 Old 12-27-2019, 09:11 AM
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Why are you addressing a lifter issue - and why change lifter - if the valve is stuck?

My mental picture is confused.

But yes lifter will come out with head on - will need a special tool.
maybe Timo_90xjhas a picture of tool,

When I see the price of OEM I think aftermarket.
When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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post #6 of 28 Old 12-27-2019, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtec View Post
Why are you addressing a lifter issue - and why change lifter - if the valve is stuck?



My mental picture is confused.



But yes lifter will come out with head on - will need a special tool.

maybe Timo_90xjhas a picture of tool,


Yea I have a valve that is stuck and not moving at all.
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post #7 of 28 Old 12-27-2019, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtec View Post
But yes lifter will come out with head on - will need a special tool.
maybe Timo_90xjhas a picture of tool,
What special tool?

A flat blade screwdriver will grab onto the internal lifter top-edge lip, permitting raising the lifter in the bore, as-shown in my collapsed lifter image.



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post #8 of 28 Old 12-27-2019, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtec View Post
But yes lifter will come out with head on - will need a special tool.
maybe Timo_90xjhas a picture of tool,
Remove metal spider from the valley, remove the guide plates from the top of lifters, stick your finger through the block holes where the cam is, push lifter up with finger.
Or like wingless mentioned, use a flatblade screwdriver if the lifter doesn't want to come up.
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1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
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post #9 of 28 Old 12-27-2019, 10:41 AM
zjosh93
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Agree with jtec, do you have a valve that is stuck in the head or a lifter that is collapsed? Typically valves only get stuck if the engine sits for a long time or the heads have a new valve job with insufficient clearance. Freeing a stuck valve usually means taking the head off. A lifter with a stuck plunger can be replaced. They sometimes can be taken apart and cleaned too. Hopefully the roller is not what failed.

Wingless and Timo are right that you can pop them up with a screw driver. But, on some engines if the engine has some miles on it you may have a much easier job getting the lifters out if you get the special tool. Carbon builds up on the lifter base and sticks them in the bore. Couple different types. See below. I think the black one is less likely to damage the lifter. Not sure if the Magnum lifters are prone to that though.
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oes-25048_xl.jpg   wmr-w84004_xl.jpg  
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post #10 of 28 Old 12-27-2019, 12:05 PM
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Extended oil change intervals using low quality oil can and will add carbon and oil sludge deposits, which in turn can make it hard to pull the lifters out. If the engine is really dirty and lifters are stuck in the bores, that tool sure can be useful.

My lifters @ ~145k miles pulled out nice and smooth. No notable sludge deposits or carbon build-up.

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1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
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post #11 of 28 Old 12-27-2019, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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I donít do the oil changes religiously but I doubt i do more than 5-6 months w/o doing a full change since itís not my daily driver and Iím in a pretty small town. I use valvoline maxlife and mopar filter.

However that being said it sat in a field for 3-5 years before I got it. And I know I had an issue with a sticky valve at the time of getting it but I think we have it a couple light taps and it freed itself back up.

When we pulled the valve cover off to see what was going on we saw that to rocket wasnít moving. It was very dark out so we didnít inspect it any further.
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post #12 of 28 Old 12-27-2019, 01:27 PM
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Might get lucky and it's just a bent pushrod then. I had that happen to me once. Valve stuck after sitting for 3 years and when the engine started it bent the pushrod.

Even a fully collapsed lifter should still move the valve. Lifter plunger travel varies a little and a quick google didn't give me reliable Magnum data but I saw around 60-120 thousandths. Classic American V8s are usually 60 thou but IMS the Magnum are more. Cam lift for the 5.2 should be around 0.26 inches so even with the plunger all the way down and assuming the high end for plunger travel 0.120 (120 thousandths) you'd still have 0.224 inches of lift at the valve, (0.26-0.12)X1.6=0.224.

Worst case scenario is that the lifter roller needle bearings fell out and munched the cam.
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post #13 of 28 Old 12-27-2019, 01:51 PM
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I agree with zjosh93, the lifters don't really have that much plunger travel in them, so even a totally collapsed lifter that cannot hold oil pressure should give you plenty of valve lift/ rocker movement.
Pull the rocker first and inspect the pushrod. If the pushrod checks out ok (not beant, or not "eaten" by ie. lack of oil flow), then check the lifter.




I ran into an issue when a few pushrods were destroyed at the top end for whatever reason. Happened after I installed the Eddy aluminum heads, cam with more lift and Comp cams roller rockers (Ultra pro magnum chevy 3/8" stud mount).
It wasn't because of lack of oil, I'm suspecting bad lifters because the same happened to a few hardened pushrods, then happened again on the exact same pushrods after a thousand miles or so.
I then replaced the lifters for the pushrods affected, and it has not reoccured after that.












1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 LX daily driver, 1.75" BB, 32" KM2s, HPD30 Eaton e-locker/D44a stock LSD, 4.56 gears, custom- fabbed tube bumpers and tube fenders,...


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1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
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post #14 of 28 Old 12-27-2019, 01:55 PM
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As for the lifter-to-head clearance, this is with the Edelbrock heads but the clearance is just the same with stock heads. If your fingers aren't too big, there's plenty of room to push up the lifters through the cam openings.
So if the lifters aren't badly stuck in the bores, you should be OK without the special tool.



1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 LX daily driver, 1.75" BB, 32" KM2s, HPD30 Eaton e-locker/D44a stock LSD, 4.56 gears, custom- fabbed tube bumpers and tube fenders,...


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1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
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post #15 of 28 Old 12-30-2019, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
Spetie
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Timo... mad jealous of your engine lol

We here is where we are at... full run down.

Check engine light used to flash when I would have to downshift to maintain speeds of 60-70mph uphill.

OBD would state misfire on 2&6

New distributer cap and rotor.
New plugs and wires.

I canít remember what itís called but I did the special routing of the plug wires as suggested in a previous thread.

Had to make some pretty heavy hauls and the problem never really seemed to go away.

Now there is a knocking. After pulling the valve cover in some light I can see that there is some movement but not much.

Push rod looks every bit of the 215k miles itís seen lol. Itís dirty but when I put it on a flat surface and roll it, it doesnít appear to be bent or warped.

Video of the valve


Push rod

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