Fuel pump/sending unit trap door? - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 12 Old 01-30-2018, 06:42 AM Thread Starter
SPCL
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Fuel pump/sending unit trap door?

I've got a fuel pressure gauge that reads past full until about half the tank is gone - the 'F' line is my halfway mark. I believe that the problem is the fuel sending unit (And even if it's not, I'd like to do this modification anyway). I've researched and found some threads -

This is from the forums here, and was especially helpful for planning:

/forum/f12/gas-tank-access-modification-373706/

As well as this thread over on cherokeeforum:

/f5/fuel-pump-sending-unit-replacement-145115/

Apparently I'm not allowed to post actual links yet because my post count is too low, so my apologies for that. I'm not much for posting on forums unless there's a real, actual need or I have a question that I can't find an answer to.

I've already pulled almost all of the interior out (that's a whole other story) and so really all that's necessary is to cut the hole and mount a gasket+plate. Obviously, I don't want to mess this up and cut unnecessary holes in the floor. Has anyone that has done this to a 93-95 ZJ, or is familiar with the process, help me figure out where exactly to cut (or figure out how to figure out where to cut ) ? A good reference picture or pictures is really all I'd need, but more information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

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post #2 of 12 Old 01-30-2018, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPCL View Post
Got a running '93 ZJ for $500

...And she doesn't need much work, but was badly, badly abused.

My name is Nathan and I live in the corner of Arlington and Fort Worth in the greater Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex. I've owned an '05 Tacoma, an '01 XJ Sport, and an '07 Tacoma. The '05 saved my life, the '01 was destroyed by an ******* Marine, and the '07 was a bad decision that's led to this decision.

What needs done that I know of:

Driver's side rear drum cylinder: Leaking oil - all the brakes should be replaced, probably
Steering Gear: Leaking power steering fluid
Driver's side sus. missing a bushing completely
Needs new shocks in front and driver's side rear (Oh no whatever will I do 0:> )
Won't shift past 2nd if in O/D
Ignition/keyring loose - has a janky pushbutton start going direct from battery to starter
Driver's side seat broken, but usable
Something with the fuel gauge - incorrectly reporting level (Driven it ~100mi on full tank and it's ... still full)
Liftgate shocks not working
Alternator may be going or it probably just needs a new battery, not sure. Sometimes has issues with short runs and then starting again.
Needs sanding and a rattlecanned matte desert tan paint job

There's a bunch of other little cosmetic crap that can be dealt with, I think. I had to tear the interior out because the carpet was caked in cigarette ash and rat feces and the undercarpet padding was damp and mildewed and smelled like $#!%. Tore out the headliner because it was torn and the padding from above would rain down dust. While I was at it, I pulled out the rear seats, which seem to be in good condition. Minor rust on the hardware. I don't want a back seat, anyway. Way down the road, because of more glaring issues, but I'd like to put a simple hatch in where the seats were for hidden stowage and things like that. The seats bolted straight to the frame, so there's two holes I can fish line through for lights and stuff.

I kind of bought this on a whim to teach myself how to fix my own stuff. I've always wanted a 4x4, and always desired a V8, and well. I don't NEED a vehicle (everything I need is in walking distance, including the DMV!), but I'd like the sense of pride and accomplishment that comes with fixing your own things. I also dislike being dependent on auto shops.

Anyway. For $500 and without any glaring issues with the engine and transmission, I thought it would be a pretty safe project to learn on. I'm handy, and good at troubleshooting (former broadcast technician/Army elec maint). What I don't have are tools and a place to work on some of the stuff - My apartment complex doesn't really like people leaving their cars on jacks for some reason??? This is going to take me a bit, I think, to get where I want it. Right now my focus is on getting it to pass Texas' safety inspection so that I can get it registered.

I'd love to get it rigged up and go out on some trails.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPCL View Post
I've got a fuel pressure gauge that reads past full until about half the tank is gone - the 'F' line is my halfway mark. I believe that the problem is the fuel sending unit (And even if it's not, I'd like to do this modification anyway). I've researched and found some threads -

This is from the forums here, and was especially helpful for planning:

Gas Tank Access Modification

As well as this thread over on cherokeeforum:

Fuel pump and sending unit replacement

Apparently I'm not allowed to post actual links yet because my post count is too low, so my apologies for that. I'm not much for posting on forums unless there's a real, actual need or I have a question that I can't find an answer to.

I've already pulled almost all of the interior out (that's a whole other story) and so really all that's necessary is to cut the hole and mount a gasket+plate. Obviously, I don't want to mess this up and cut unnecessary holes in the floor. Has anyone that has done this to a 93-95 ZJ, or is familiar with the process, help me figure out where exactly to cut (or figure out how to figure out where to cut ) ? A good reference picture or pictures is really all I'd need, but more information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Welcome to the forum.

Links fixed in-line...

Note that these modifications are not required. It is "easy" enough to drop the fuel tank to replace the fuel pump. Use a quality part like Bosch to avoid repeating the repair.

When I did mine, I used a siphon to drain the fuel into a portable gasoline jug so that the weight would be less.

If chopping the cargo floor is going to happen, then removing the fuel tank and moving the fuel hoses first is a very good idea for safety.

Here are images showing both sides of that cargo floor area.




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post #3 of 12 Old 01-30-2018, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
SPCL
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Thank you for fixing the links. I live in apartments, which makes doing some of the "easier" things that require jackstands less easy. I'm currently looking for some sort of makerspace nearby that has a garage for repairs, since the other option is having it towed to my cousin's place ~20 miles away. I've been amassing all the different parts/tools/etc that I'll need to perform those repairs - I may add this to that list.

Also, thank you for the pictures. My interior is similar right now. What I need help with is identifying the area that needs to be cut; It looks like from that picture that the majority of the cargo area has been cut, which isn't exactly what I'm looking to do.
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post #4 of 12 Old 01-30-2018, 08:42 AM
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Glad to help.

Start w/ getting the correct Factory Service Manual (FSM), it is required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPCL View Post
I kind of bought this on a whim to teach myself how to fix my own stuff.
IMO the non-functional fuel gauge is not the top of the list and chopping the floor should be off the list.

The sheet metal above the fuel tank is a safety component. It would be a very bad day if that floor was chopped, then the vehicle was rear ended at a stop sign causing a tank rupture, followed by fuel or flames entering the passenger compartment through that new patched hole.

There is a long list of issues requiring resolution.

This is a good time to start learning car repair. Cutting the cargo floor is a VERY BAD WAY to fix a non-functional fuel gauge.

Start w/ figuring out why the fuel gauge isn't working. The fuel pump electrical connector is easy to access. When underneath the vehicle w/ all four wheels on the ground look up at the fuel pump electrical connector.

The FSM lists the measured fuel sender resistance versus fuel level. THAT is the place to start. Fill the tank then measure the resistance. Estimate 10 MPG, drive 100 miles, then measure the resistance again. It should change to about the level resistance.


Start w/ making a prioritized repair list like this:
  1. Fix Brakes
  2. Fix Suspension
  3. Fix Electrical / Charging
  4. Fix Transmission
  5. Fix Steering Leak

Then there is a whole bunch of "equal" lower priority items.
  • Fix Fuel Gauge
  • Fix Ignition Key
  • Fix Driver's Seat
  • Fix Liftgate Struts
  • Fix Evaporator Leak
  • Fix Headliner


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post #5 of 12 Old 01-30-2018, 09:49 AM
zjosh93
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I've had my pump out twice and both times I dropped the tank. It's not that difficult and I'm with wingless on not wanting to cut the floor.

But,
Here's what you're looking for.
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/z...cation-691098/
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post #6 of 12 Old 01-30-2018, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
SPCL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingless View Post
There is a long list of issues requiring resolution.
I'm tackling them as time, money, and skill allow.

I have a list of things that need to be done (it's a little longer than yours), divided into "Stuff I can do without lifting the Jeep," "Stuff I can do alone with a lift/jack," and "Stuff I need two people for."

Part of that prioritization process is classifying all the stuff, which has been a lot of research and asking stupid questions. I'm not really keen on cutting into the floor, either, but if it makes the process of replacing the fuel pump and associated things easier, I'd like to do it. That said, safety is definitely a priority, and you bring up some good points that I'd considered, but not fully. Thank you.
@zjosh93 Thank you for the link - Sifting through a decade+ of posts with missing photobucket pictures is exhausting! It's exactly what I needed, and after looking at that write up, I think it's probably not something that I should take on for multiple reasons. I appreciate you taking the time to find it for me.
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post #7 of 12 Old 01-30-2018, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPCL View Post
"Stuff I can do alone with a lift/jack,"
There have been several mentions about working on a vehicle lifted with a jack.

A vehicle should NEVER be worked on when supported by a jack. A jack can fail suddenly, rapidly and without warning.

A properly raised vehicle should be properly lowered onto jack stands before ever going underneath the vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPCL View Post
"Stuff I need two people for."
My ZJ has been completely rebuilt by me.

So far I have found only one two person job. This reply identifies THE best way to replace the rear bolt fasteners on the passenger's side exhaust flange. It is a two-person job.

Everything else requires brain power, tools, time and only one person.


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post #8 of 12 Old 01-30-2018, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingless View Post
....
So far I have found only one two person job. This reply identifies THE best way to replace the rear bolt fasteners on the passenger's side exhaust flange. It is a two-person job.

Everything else requires brain power, tools, time and only one person.
I actually did this job by myself a couple months ago. I tried using a piece of tape to hold the nut, but that didn't work. Eventually I was able to get one bolt just barely started into the nut by working from the top; I think I had the header-pipe supported in place with a jack.
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post #9 of 12 Old 01-30-2018, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingless View Post
So far I have found only one two person job. This reply identifies THE best way to replace the rear bolt fasteners on the passenger's side exhaust flange. It is a two-person job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWC View Post
I actually did this job by myself a couple months ago. I tried using a piece of tape to hold the nut, but that didn't work. Eventually I was able to get one bolt just barely started into the nut by working from the top; I think I had the header-pipe supported in place with a jack.
This job was also done solo by me a couple of times too, until I found the previously-mentioned BEST WAY.

Is your method being submitted for best way contention?


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post #10 of 12 Old 01-30-2018, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, I know not to put vehicles on jacks. I'll be sure to use the full and proper terms next time to prevent confusion.
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post #11 of 12 Old 01-31-2018, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingless View Post
Everything else requires brain power, tools, time and only one person.
And sometimes, something solid you can attach the other end of a ratchet strap to.

I wouldn't have been able to line up my rear track bar with the axle-end bolt hole without a second person if I hadn't been able to park my KJ next to the ZJ and use one of its tow hooks as the anchorage for the ratchet strap that pulled the ZJ's axle to the right until the hole in the track bar bushing lined up with the hole in the axle bracket.
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post #12 of 12 Old 01-31-2018, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingless View Post
This job was also done solo by me a couple of times too, until I found the previously-mentioned BEST WAY.

Is your method being submitted for best way contention?
Nope. Just stating that, in your own words, with "brain power, tools, time and only one person" it can still be done. Therefore, it doesn't fall into the category of "everything else." (You also identify it specifically as being a two-person job: "So far I have found only one two person job.")
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