Dealership Oil Change Woes - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 23 Old 06-05-2018, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
mkm5
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Dealership Oil Change Woes

Hey guys!

So, I bought this 1-owner 5.9 Limited with 65,000 miles from the same dealership that sold it new and serviced it regularly for the previous owner. The purchase came with lifetime free oil changes.

Well, I noticed at 70,000 miles after the first free oil change, the cold reading on the dipstick was way high, about 1/2" over the full mark, or right around the "T" of Do No"T" Overfill. I hadn't checked it til the next morning after I got home when it was cold. I called the dealership and they assured me their oil fill equipment is accurately metered and they only put in 5 quarts.

At 75,000 miles, same thing happened, only I checked the level hot right after they completed the job, then had the service manager come out and confirm the reading was way above the full mark. So they said they would drain it and install a new filter and do it again, I waited another hour. Same result, so they convinced me the marking on the dipstick was not accurate and away I went.

This Jeep does not burn or leak any oil whatsoever.

Anyway, I moved 250 miles out of town from the dealer and at 80,000 miles realized I wasn't going to be back there for a while so just changed the oil myself after running across a deal on Pennzoil 10W30 for $2.99/quart and got a Pure-One oil filter to finish the job.

Well, guess what?

I poured in exactly 5 quarts of the Pennzoil from 1 quart containers, and when I checked the level cold, it was EXACTLY at the full mark where it should be.

This is the same dealership that charged the previous owner for every piece of maintenance under the book; flushing and filling trans, t-case, power steering, tune-up, intake gasket, alignment, re-routing wires, fuel pump, etc, etc.

When I did a tune-up at 65,000 miles after I bought it, I checked the date codes on plugs and wires. Plugs code was 12/97, and wires code was 1/98. My Jeep was built 1/28/98. T-Case oil was black when I changed it.

Fortunately, this thing still runs and drives like new, but had to vent about the incompetence if not sheer robbery for services not performed with this dealership. They are rated highest of all in the metro Detroit area by the way.

Guess I will stick to keeping this nice niner in good shape myself, and yes, I did stock up on the Pennzoil at $2.99!

Mike

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post #2 of 23 Old 06-05-2018, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
mkm5
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Forgot to mention, it idles noticeably smoother now, and highway-speed oil pressure went up from around 38 psi to just above 45 psi.
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post #3 of 23 Old 06-05-2018, 07:03 PM
Baddad71
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Never use pennzoil, or you will get this:


brownies-valley.jpg

Building a 1998 ZJ 5.2 4X4 for a friend. NP242 swap 4.5" lift 33x12.50
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post #4 of 23 Old 06-06-2018, 08:47 AM
Mr. Puddles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baddad71 View Post
Never use pennzoil, or you will get this:


Attachment 3743889

Truth


Pennzoil lives their paraffin wax additive

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1996 Grand Cherokee aka Puddles aka Pikey Life
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Originally Posted by kg6mov View Post
The 4.0 is dumb old tractor motor, itís too stupid to know itís supposed to die.
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post #5 of 23 Old 06-06-2018, 09:36 AM
AmishFury
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more like myth... i really don't have time for the argument but maybe you can throw that line out on the bob is the oil guy forums
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post #6 of 23 Old 06-06-2018, 11:37 AM
Mr. Puddles
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Originally Posted by AmishFury View Post
more like myth... i really don't have time for the argument but maybe you can throw that line out on the bob is the oil guy forums
Experience beats any amount of words

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2002 Dakota aka Winnie aka Mad Max
1996 Grand Cherokee aka Puddles aka Pikey Life
Quote:
Originally Posted by kg6mov View Post
The 4.0 is dumb old tractor motor, itís too stupid to know itís supposed to die.
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post #7 of 23 Old 06-06-2018, 02:15 PM
AmishFury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Puddles View Post
Experience beats any amount of words
anecdotal evidence doesn't beat science and hard facts... seriously go over to bitog those people send samples off for analysis all the time
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post #8 of 23 Old 06-06-2018, 03:50 PM
Mr. Puddles
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Originally Posted by AmishFury View Post
anecdotal evidence doesn't beat science and hard facts... seriously go over to bitog those people send samples off for analysis all the time

Ive pulled apart 4 engines for oiling issues that all ran Pennzoil and all looked more or less like that. My brother swears by Lucas oil products. I had it seize up a transmission. My experience is that its junk. Same thing with the oil. I'm not saying that the science is wrong but Ill stick to what life has shown to work.

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2002 Dakota aka Winnie aka Mad Max
1996 Grand Cherokee aka Puddles aka Pikey Life
Quote:
Originally Posted by kg6mov View Post
The 4.0 is dumb old tractor motor, itís too stupid to know itís supposed to die.
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post #9 of 23 Old 06-06-2018, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
mkm5
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Well, I didn't expect this to take a turn on good oil versus bad oil, but I can say I've used Pennzoil, Valvoline, and Quaker State oil in over 30 cars over 40 years and never had any engine problem or oil burning or sludge in any of them. From 1969 Dodge Charger 500 with 440 Magnum to TJs with 4.0L, never had any issue, but I keep up on maintenance regularly. My 500 gets an oil change every 5 years need it or not! Daily drivers get 5K oil changes. I really think the oil horror stories are due to lack of proper maintenance. I've seen mom driven minivan 3.0Ls trashed at 30K miles because they never took it in for an oil change til the engine failed.

Exception is 1st gen 4.7L which I have seen personally sludged up to failure at 30K, because of poor design and lack of maintenance.

And yes, I was a Jeep engineer for 30 years.
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post #10 of 23 Old 06-07-2018, 07:09 AM
Baddad71
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I didn't mean to start a war of opinions on oil, just throwing out a friendly warning about something I ave had a bad experience with.


My current Jeep ZJ build project only has 122k on it now and wasn't even due for an oil change for another 1000 miles.


100_4024.jpg


It was done by a dealer, with a Mopar filter.


That's all I have to say about that.


Now back to your ZJ mkm5:



A 5.9 ZJ is an awesome find! Especially with low miles like yours.


Many folks call them stealerships for a reason. They are usually worse in small towns where there is little competition, like where I live. I leave my small town and drive 30+ miles whenever I need a dealer part. My local places suck.



Are you new to Jeeps? I am.



I'm building a 98 ZJ lawn ornament I got for $500 into a reliable daily ride and adding a lift kit and 33" tires for my son's best friend.

The body was straight, but the motor was a basket case that was ready for the junkyard, leaking coolant in about a dozen places, bolts missing and or snapped off, and some other issues too.


The 5.2/5.9 Magnum engines are great, but have an intake plenum gasket that fails when the mileage starts getting higher.

With your low mileage, this may not happen for a while.


I am replacing the one in my Jeep build project because I already had the motor out of the truck to replace the freeze plugs.

It hadn't failed yet at 122k miles. You don't have to pull the motor for this plenum gasket fix.

When the gasket fails, it starts sucking oil through the PCV tubes and into the fuel/air mix and into the cylinders.


The same gasket in my 96 Ram 5.2 is bad now and I have plans to replace it soon.



Some of the symptoms are: rough idle, reduced acceleration, increased fuel consumption, valves pinging and popping under harder acceleration, and oil consumption without leaks.

After driving it for several thousand miles like this, it will get a little worse and you will start getting a puff of blue oil smoke at start-up that goes away after a couple of seconds (this is where my Ram is).

The pre-cat O2 sensor may become fouled and fail, sending a code and bringing on the Check Engine light.



My Ram got around 16 mpg average when I got it with 142K miles. Now at 175K miles and I am getting around 12.5 to 13 after a new cap, rotor, and plugs. It has the other symptoms listed above too. It burns about 3 quarts in 5K miles now, not enough to foul the O2 sensor, but I gotta add oil between changes.


The original plenum plate and gasket design is flawed and replacing the gasket is only a temporary fix. To fix it permanently, it needs a Magnum plenum kit from Hughes Engines part # HUG 7720R.

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/p...p?partid=27091


Good luck with your Niner!
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Magnum plenum plate installed.jpg  

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post #11 of 23 Old 06-07-2018, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Baddad71 View Post
It was done by a dealer

that is likely the problem right there
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post #12 of 23 Old 06-07-2018, 11:28 AM
jeepjeepster
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The plenum on my 5.9 had a nice puddle of oil at 62,000. Its been removed and replaced with an M1.

Nice find on the low mile niner! Wish I could find another with nice low miles like mine.

Whats a little screwed up is the dealer is sortve screwing themselves... Charging for a 5qt oil change and theyre using more than 5 qts....

1994 ZJ-I6 w/270,000 mi
1998 ZJ 5.9 w/66,000 mi Slate Black
2004 KJ w/108,000 mi
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post #13 of 23 Old 06-07-2018, 04:58 PM
JonS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkm5
Well, I didn't expect this to take a turn on good oil versus bad oil, but I can say I've used Pennzoil, Valvoline, and Quaker State oil in over 30 cars over 40 years and never had any engine problem or oil burning or sludge in any of them. From 1969 Dodge Charger 500 with 440 Magnum to TJs with 4.0L, never had any issue, but I keep up on maintenance regularly. My 500 gets an oil change every 5 years need it or not! Daily drivers get 5K oil changes. I really think the oil horror stories are due to lack of proper maintenance. I've seen mom driven minivan 3.0Ls trashed at 30K miles because they never took it in for an oil change til the engine failed. Exception is 1st gen 4.7L which I have seen personally sludged up to failure at 30K, because of poor design and lack of maintenance. And yes, I was a Jeep engineer for 30 years.
I have been using Pennzoil and Quaker State oil
for over 50 years in 3 cars I still have to this day and there is zero varnish or sludge in any of them. My ZJ with 273,000 miles runs on the same with no oil problems.


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post #14 of 23 Old 06-07-2018, 05:05 PM
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Valvoline tastes the best tho..
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post #15 of 23 Old 06-08-2018, 08:35 AM
jeepjeepster
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Yeah... I bet if you routinely change the engine oil, any brand would do just fine...
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1994 ZJ-I6 w/270,000 mi
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2004 KJ w/108,000 mi
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