AW4 fom 88 in 97 gc possible? - JeepForum.com
 2Likes
  • 2 Post By jeepjeepster
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 Old 09-18-2021, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
IdCrisis
Registered User
 
IdCrisis's Avatar
1997 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 41
AW4 fom 88 in 97 gc possible?

Hi im planning for future here, but found an old thread from 08 about swapping in an aw4 when the 42re say goodbye, so hear me out and if anyone of you could answer my questions i would appreciate it.

ok so here goes, when i was loocking aroud for changing my broke 249 to an 242 i found one guy in my offroad facebook group who had a 242 tf case from 88, so i went there and got the tf case and transmission for free, didnt know at the time what kind of transmission it was but found out today after research its an AW4 i guess from the same year as the tf case 88,

so i read this guide about swapping the transmission from 42re to an AW4 and it seemed straight forward (just a little pita with the wire problem and sourcing anohter pcm etc etc).

so i got a few questions.

1 is it possible to swap the 42re in a 97 gc with an AW4 from most likley 88 it came from a xj with a 4.0 and i still have the tf that came with it.
2 the wiring..... i read some where that if u do this u will get an check engine light witch would be a biiiiig nono here in sweden because the yearly inspection would not like that
3 or should i sell it and when that day comes ( could be years ) when my 42 re gives up. should i then just take the 42re to a transmission rebuilder and rebuild it with 44 re internals? that will cost me between 1600-2000 usd.

today i only have the AW4 transmission without the bellhousing (about 40usd for a new bellhuosing) all the wires and cables are still on the transmission (will have to do a lot of research on what i could reuse if swap is possible and worth it) but if it was possible what am i missing.

so now im just wondering what would be the best thing keep the AW4 for the rainy day and then do the swap or just sell it for a couple of bucks and hope the 42re lasts a couple of years more its not on its way out or anything (i think little bit rough shifts some times and on cold mornings it can have 1,5 sec delay to engage the drive or reverse, did fluid and filter bout 6 month ago and gor rid of harsher shifts and tourqe converter stutter)

just planning ahead and i read that the AW4 is stronger than both the 42re and 44re so if it would be possible i would love to be able to swap it but if that is waaay to much hazzel ill just sell it and the 242 tft and in future uppgrade the 42re.

IdCrisis is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 Old 09-18-2021, 09:23 AM
Timo_90xj
Web Wheeler
 
Timo_90xj's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland - on the European side of the Atlantic
Posts: 11,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdCrisis View Post
ok so here goes, when i was loocking aroud for changing my broke 249 to an 242 i found one guy in my offroad facebook group who had a 242 tf case from 88, so i went there and got the tf case and transmission for free, didnt know at the time what kind of transmission it was but found out today after research its an AW4 i guess from the same year as the tf case 88,
'88 XJ transfer case input is 21- spline, your '97 uses 23- spline. You can use the 249 front case half, input shaft, front (input) planetary and speedometer pickup, everyhthing else from the '88 242.


Quote:
so i read this guide about swapping the transmission from 42re to an AW4 and it seemed straight forward (just a little pita with the wire problem and sourcing anohter pcm etc etc).
You need a separate TCM to run the AW4, or get a Radesign Baja controller ( http://www.radesignsproducts.com/baja-controller.html)


Quote:
1 is it possible to swap the 42re in a 97 gc with an AW4 from most likley 88 it came from a xj with a 4.0 and i still have the tf that came with it.
AW4 transmission from a 4.0 XJ mounts to any 4.0 block; '88 flexplate is different from the newer ones, and IIRC AW4 and 42RE flexplate differ quite a bit from each other.
Not 100% sure on this, but I'm pretty certain your '97 PCM and crank sensor will not work with the 88 AW4 flexplate.

Quote:
2 the wiring..... i read some where that if u do this u will get an check engine light witch would be a biiiiig nono here in sweden because the yearly inspection would not like that
Yeap, on '96+ you wil get a check engine light. Heck, even using the Radesign baja shifter on a '96+ XJ will cause a CEL.
You can get the PCM tuned to make it think you have a manual, so that PCM isn't even trying to detect and/ or control the transmission. You won't get a CEL at that point.

You will need the TCM and wiring harness if you want to AW4 to operate automatically, and probably do a bunch of custom stuff. With the '88 XJ being a Renix and having it's own sensors, your TPS output most likely doesn't match that of the '88 Renix- era TPS sensor output -> TCM will do funky things.

Quote:
3 or should i sell it and when that day comes ( could be years ) when my 42 re gives up. should i then just take the 42re to a transmission rebuilder and rebuild it with 44 re internals? that will cost me between 1600-2000 usd.
This is your best option, and most likely also the most cost- effective.

Quote:
just planning ahead and i read that the AW4 is stronger than both the 42re and 44re so if it would be possible i would love to be able to swap it but if that is waaay to much hazzel ill just sell it and the 242 tft and in future uppgrade the 42re.
You can use the 242 you got with the front case swap I described above.

AW4 isn't directly comparable in strength to Chrysler transmissions, but it's clutch pack surface areas are in 44RE to 46RE range, and most of it's internals in real life handle power/ torque and abuse way better than a 42 or a 44.
As long as you change the fluid and keep the AW4 cool - they generate a crapload of heat - they can easily clock over 300K miles/ 30 years without a rebuild. That is something that you almost never see with a 42-48- series Chrysler unit.

Too bad Jeep used the AW4 only in 4.0 XJs and '92 built 4.0 ZJs. It would've been a much better transmission for the 4.0 ZJs, TJs and WJs.

1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 LX daily driver, 1.75" BB, 32" KM2s, HPD30 Eaton e-locker/D44a stock LSD, 4.56 gears, custom- fabbed tube bumpers and tube fenders,...


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
Timo_90xj is offline  
post #3 of 11 Old 09-18-2021, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
IdCrisis
Registered User
 
IdCrisis's Avatar
1997 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo_90xj View Post
'88 XJ transfer case input is 21- spline, your '97 uses 23- spline. You can use the 249 front case half, input shaft, front (input) planetary and speedometer pickup, everyhthing else from the '88 242.


You need a separate TCM to run the AW4, or get a Radesign Baja controller ( http://www.radesignsproducts.com/baja-controller.html)


AW4 transmission from a 4.0 XJ mounts to any 4.0 block; '88 flexplate is different from the newer ones, and IIRC AW4 and 42RE flexplate differ quite a bit from each other.
Not 100% sure on this, but I'm pretty certain your '97 PCM and crank sensor will not work with the 88 AW4 flexplate.

Yeap, on '96+ you wil get a check engine light. Heck, even using the Radesign baja shifter on a '96+ XJ will cause a CEL.
You can get the PCM tuned to make it think you have a manual, so that PCM isn't even trying to detect and/ or control the transmission. You won't get a CEL at that point.

You will need the TCM and wiring harness if you want to AW4 to operate automatically, and probably do a bunch of custom stuff. With the '88 XJ being a Renix and having it's own sensors, your TPS output most likely doesn't match that of the '88 Renix- era TPS sensor output -> TCM will do funky things.

This is your best option, and most likely also the most cost- effective.

You can use the 242 you got with the front case swap I described above.

AW4 isn't directly comparable in strength to Chrysler transmissions, but it's clutch pack surface areas are in 44RE to 46RE range, and most of it's internals in real life handle power/ torque and abuse way better than a 42 or a 44.
As long as you change the fluid and keep the AW4 cool - they generate a crapload of heat - they can easily clock over 300K miles/ 30 years without a rebuild. That is something that you almost never see with a 42-48- series Chrysler unit.

Too bad Jeep used the AW4 only in 4.0 XJs and '92 built 4.0 ZJs. It would've been a much better transmission for the 4.0 ZJs, TJs and WJs.
oh i changed my tf case 2 weeks ago (just waiting for the shop to cut my driveline have waited 2 weeks now and still not heard anything hope next week(they do truck drivelines and car ones but trucks are priority)) so no more skipping the front end driving it to and from train in 4wd parttime with only front shaft in. put in a 98 242 witch aleready was modified from another zj 4.0 97 so it was just bolt on job done in ish 1h 50 min (well had lift at my disposal and a good friend so it was done quick)

ok it will be to much of a headace to change to the aw4 would been nice thou awell. then ill put up the AW4 and 242 for sale on my fb group and see if someone can use em. the 249 with the broken vc is that worth trying to sell or just throw it away?
IdCrisis is offline  
 
post #4 of 11 Old 09-18-2021, 03:39 PM
PolkaPower
Registered User
 
PolkaPower's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The Abyss
Posts: 23,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdCrisis View Post
oh i changed my tf case 2 weeks ago (just waiting for the shop to cut my driveline have waited 2 weeks now and still not heard anything hope next week(they do truck drivelines and car ones but trucks are priority)) so no more skipping the front end driving it to and from train in 4wd parttime with only front shaft in. put in a 98 242 witch aleready was modified from another zj 4.0 97 so it was just bolt on job done in ish 1h 50 min (well had lift at my disposal and a good friend so it was done quick)

ok it will be to much of a headace to change to the aw4 would been nice thou awell. then ill put up the AW4 and 242 for sale on my fb group and see if someone can use em. the 249 with the broken vc is that worth trying to sell or just throw it away?

249s are worth scrap price.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
PolkaPower is offline  
post #5 of 11 Old 09-18-2021, 06:49 PM
jeepjeepster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo_90xj View Post
AW4 isn't directly comparable in strength to Chrysler transmissions, but it's clutch pack surface areas are in 44RE to 46RE range, and most of it's internals in real life handle power/ torque and abuse way better than a 42 or a 44.
As long as you change the fluid and keep the AW4 cool - they generate a crapload of heat - they can easily clock over 300K miles/ 30 years without a rebuild. That is something that you almost never see with a 42-48- series Chrysler unit.

Too bad Jeep used the AW4 only in 4.0 XJs and '92 built 4.0 ZJs. It would've been a much better transmission for the 4.0 ZJs, TJs and WJs.
It is a shame. I'm sure chrysler saved a few $$ using their transmission over AMC's trans. Cant really complain though, my 42re is going strong at 273,000.

The AW4 seems almost indestructible though. I watch a guy on youtube called matts offroad recovery. He uses an XJ for his recovery vehicle and absolutely gives that thing heck. Constant WOT and the trans shifts like mad, its wild. 42RE would not handle that for a day.
Timo_90xj and IdCrisis like this.

1994 ZJ-I6 w/270,000 mi
1998 ZJ 5.9 w/66,000 mi Slate Black
2004 KJ w/108,000 mi
jeepjeepster is online now  
post #6 of 11 Old 09-19-2021, 06:09 AM
Timo_90xj
Web Wheeler
 
Timo_90xj's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland - on the European side of the Atlantic
Posts: 11,171
AW4 is a Japanese transmission, not AMC And yes, they seem to be pretty much indestructible..

1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 LX daily driver, 1.75" BB, 32" KM2s, HPD30 Eaton e-locker/D44a stock LSD, 4.56 gears, custom- fabbed tube bumpers and tube fenders,...


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
Timo_90xj is offline  
post #7 of 11 Old 09-19-2021, 06:28 AM
PolkaPower
Registered User
 
PolkaPower's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The Abyss
Posts: 23,752
AW4 fom 88 in 97 gc possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo_90xj View Post
AW4 is a Japanese transmission, not AMC And yes, they seem to be pretty much indestructible..

Absolutely, JDM over builds for the most part so it lasts for what it's designed for but add more ponies and it needs upgrades like anything else. Matt's off road just dropped a stroker in so I doubt they are using the factory transmission.

He also had extensive transmission cooling upgrades as well as anyone should.
Build for your needs! I should say "overbuild" for your needs.

If anyone ever says its over built but are actually criticizing, they are dumb.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
PolkaPower is offline  
post #8 of 11 Old 09-19-2021, 08:19 AM
jeepjeepster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo_90xj View Post
AW4 is a Japanese transmission, not AMC And yes, they seem to be pretty much indestructible..
A lot of people say that, but everything Ive ever read doesnt say that. AMC didnt call up a Japanese company and say hey, we need a good transmission, you got anything laying on the shelf we can use?

Did AMC and Borg Warner not design the transmission? Then have Aisin Warner build it to their specs?

1994 ZJ-I6 w/270,000 mi
1998 ZJ 5.9 w/66,000 mi Slate Black
2004 KJ w/108,000 mi
jeepjeepster is online now  
post #9 of 11 Old 09-19-2021, 10:02 AM
Timo_90xj
Web Wheeler
 
Timo_90xj's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland - on the European side of the Atlantic
Posts: 11,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepjeepster View Post
A lot of people say that, but everything Ive ever read doesnt say that. AMC didnt call up a Japanese company and say hey, we need a good transmission, you got anything laying on the shelf we can use?

Did AMC and Borg Warner not design the transmission? Then have Aisin Warner build it to their specs?
AW4 belongs to the A34x- series AisinWarner/ Toyota transmission line which was used in multiple different vehicles from late 80s until the 2000s. Mostly in Toyotas, but also in a bunch of other manufacturers' vehicles including Jeep XJ and MJ.
AisinWarner was a joint operation between Aisin and BorgWarner before BorgWarner sold their share to Toyota, A340/AW4 was developed during Aisin/ BorgWarner partnership. I guess you'd have to ask the people who worked for the company at the time who had the key role in developing that transmission line They were built in the USA, that's for sure. Renault was playing a key role in designing the uniframe/ unibody for the XJ/MJ; and the '87-'90 4.0 multiport fuel injection (Renix) was a joint venture between Renault and Bendix.

How big of a role did AMC have in all of those designs, hard to say. I feel like most of the knowledge in that era of AMC came from outside the company, not from AMC.

1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 LX daily driver, 1.75" BB, 32" KM2s, HPD30 Eaton e-locker/D44a stock LSD, 4.56 gears, custom- fabbed tube bumpers and tube fenders,...


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
Timo_90xj is offline  
post #10 of 11 Old 09-20-2021, 09:30 AM
kg6mov
Hears the voices
 
kg6mov's Avatar
1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cupertino
Posts: 16,484
AMC totally called up Aisin in Japan and begged for a transmission. Just likes they begged GM for the V6, the early XJ’s were a mess.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1984 F250, 460 BB, T19, work truck/future tow pig
1987 Mercedes 300D Turbo, the diesel daily, 30mpg in style

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas ZJ1 View Post
I heard someone yell "mall crawler" from the back porch. I'll go see who said that. Be right back.
kg6mov is offline  
post #11 of 11 Old 09-20-2021, 02:03 PM
Timo_90xj
Web Wheeler
 
Timo_90xj's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland - on the European side of the Atlantic
Posts: 11,171
AisinWarner had a 4- speed automatic by late 70s, a few years before GM and ZF - let's not talk about Chrysler here AMC certainly was interested in a 4-speed automatic to go behind the upgraded 4.0 for the '87 XJ - but I'm pretty certain they didn't have much to do with the actual design.

That being said, what AMC/ Jeep achieved back then was pretty fantastic. If you look back to '87, you gotta keep in mind vehicles like BMW 535i or 735i (3.5 liter I6 with Bosch multiport fuel injection) were making slightly over 200 horses and ~225lbs/ft., Merc 3-liter I6 engines had about the same horses as the 4.0 but considerably less torque - and those were crossflow engines from premium manufacturers. Many US domestic V8 engines at that time were producing less horses and only a bit more torque compared to the 4.0

1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 LX daily driver, 1.75" BB, 32" KM2s, HPD30 Eaton e-locker/D44a stock LSD, 4.56 gears, custom- fabbed tube bumpers and tube fenders,...


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
Timo_90xj is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome