96 ZJ dying again! - Page 3 - JeepForum.com
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post #31 of 53 Old 01-30-2019, 12:34 PM Thread Starter
xtrattitude4u
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Ok so I reflowed the last remaining pins on the PCM, which were 2 caps and a 8 pin chip.

Last night a 4 mile test drive was fine.

Today 3 miles in and the Jeep was seeming like it was gonna die, but didn't. It lost a lot of power and started shaking, then recovered and ran fine.

With the issue so intermittent, I think I have to start throwing parts at it. I can't get it to act up while in park.

I'm thinking I wanna try the simple easy things before dropping 200 plus on a new PCM.

Here are the things I can think of.

Coil wire since that's the last piece of the ignition system between the plugs and harness I haven't replaced.

Fuel filter, ignition relay, Ignition switch?

What else is in the ignition path, or is that it?

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post #32 of 53 Old 01-30-2019, 04:47 PM
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I just read this entire thread, all 31 posts. I think you were on the right track on the ground point cleaning. You missed some of them though.

There are two on the passenger fender by the battery, one at the wire loom mount by the dipstick, one at the coil mount and one at the alternator. Make the terminal lugs shine as well as the nut or bolt and the surface supplying the ground. (You must take them apart to accomplish this.)

If your battery terminals are connected to the cables with two bolts and a piece of tin, throw those as far as you can and upgrade to military or marine terminals with crimped/soldered ring terminals bolted on, or buy complete cables.

GW

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post #33 of 53 Old 01-30-2019, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
xtrattitude4u
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Originally Posted by GOLDWING View Post
I just read this entire thread, all 31 posts. I think you were on the right track on the ground point cleaning. You missed some of them though.



There are two on the passenger fender by the battery, one at the wire loom mount by the dipstick, one at the coil mount and one at the alternator. Make the terminal lugs shine as well as the nut or bolt and the surface supplying the ground. (You must take them apart to accomplish this.)



If your battery terminals are connected to the cables with two bolts and a piece of tin, throw those as far as you can and upgrade to military or marine terminals with crimped/soldered ring terminals bolted on, or buy complete cables.



GW
Thanks!

I really appreciate your attention to the history.

I was considering upgrading the terminals because the cheap ones from the parts store are in rough shape at best, and I think the + is starting to crack. I'll do that.

I'm warming up to the fact this stumbling / surging is something other than the PCM. My wife says that issue has been coming and going for quite some time, and I can no longer get any reaction by wiggling any of the connectors or tapping heavily on the PCM after repairing it, so it seems fine. It hasn't completely died since I reflowed the last pins on it. Maybe these are just two different issues.

Still no check engine light or codes, that thing has never helped me once!

I must have missed the other ground on the passenger fender, I got the obvious one which is on the other end of a 1 foot cable from the terminal and is shared with 2 other wire rings (one is the PCM ground I believe)
Also did the one where the wire loom mounts to the block just rear of the dipstick.

Took them apart, cleaned all surfaces with pb blaster and wire brushed them shiny, used my terminal brush to clean the female threads and the mating surface for the bolt, wire brushed the bolt itself, tightened well.

I'll find / clean the grounds I missed and do the terminals next.





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post #34 of 53 Old 01-30-2019, 06:38 PM
GOLDWING
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrattitude4u View Post
Thanks!

I really appreciate your attention to the history.

I was considering upgrading the terminals because the cheap ones from the parts store are in rough shape at best, and I think the + is starting to crack. I'll do that.

I'm warming up to the fact this stumbling / surging is something other than the PCM. My wife says that issue has been coming and going for quite some time, and I can no longer get any reaction by wiggling any of the connectors or tapping heavily on the PCM after repairing it, so it seems fine. It hasn't completely died since I reflowed the last pins on it. Maybe these are just two different issues.

Still no check engine light or codes, that thing has never helped me once!

I must have missed the other ground on the passenger fender, I got the obvious one which is on the other end of a 1 foot cable from the terminal and is shared with 2 other wire rings (one is the PCM ground I believe)
Also did the one where the wire loom mounts to the block just rear of the dipstick.

Took them apart, cleaned all surfaces with pb blaster and wire brushed them shiny, used my terminal brush to clean the female threads and the mating surface for the bolt, wire brushed the bolt itself, tightened well.

I'll find / clean the grounds I missed and do the terminals next.





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I think that the PCM ground is at the coil mount.

GW

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post #35 of 53 Old 01-30-2019, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
xtrattitude4u
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It's back to crank no start.
My wife is stuck 30 miles away and we need to get an expensive tow truck.

I really think the Jeep hates us.



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post #36 of 53 Old 01-30-2019, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrattitude4u View Post
It's back to crank no start.
My wife is stuck 30 miles away and we need to get an expensive tow truck.

I really think the Jeep hates us.



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I am sorry that you are having issues when the weather is so bad. Since we have a combined mileage of about 500,000 miles on 3 ZJs, we bought the AAA RV + plan and have 100 mile towing that we have used a time or two.

Gw

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post #37 of 53 Old 01-30-2019, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
xtrattitude4u
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Originally Posted by GOLDWING View Post
I am sorry that you are having issues when the weather is so bad. Since we have a combined mileage of about 500,000 miles on 3 ZJs, we bought the AAA RV + plan and have 100 mile towing that we have used a time or two.



Gw
Thanks bro.

It's not bad weather here right now thankfully.
just cold outside.

The tow truck driver thought he dropped the Jeep, and took off down the street with the Jeep in park squeeling the front tires for half a block.

:-0

I'm done for the night.

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post #38 of 53 Old 01-31-2019, 11:39 PM Thread Starter
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Today I found the ground point underneath the coil. Took the studs and bracket off, cleaned with pb blaster and some corrosion cleaner. Then wire brushed the studs, bracket, terminal rings and and grounding nut. I found one of the rings was really concave, so pounded it flat and put it all back together.

It was nasty, corroded a bit and covered In grime.

Drove the Jeep home from 30 minutes away without even a hiccup.
I'm gonna redo the other 2 remaining grounds tomorrow.

I've ordered military spec battery terminals and a lug crimper. Gonna redo the terminals before taking it very far again.

That PCM ground does seem inadequate.
What is that like 16 gage wire?

I'd like to upgrade that too, but where is the other end? Do you have to splice into the small wire

Anyway, really appreciate all the advice.

I'm gonna have the best running Jeep on the road by the time this is done!




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post #39 of 53 Old 02-01-2019, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrattitude4u View Post
Today I found the ground point underneath the coil. Took the studs and bracket off, cleaned with pb blaster and some corrosion cleaner. Then wire brushed the studs, bracket, terminal rings and and grounding nut. I found one of the rings was really concave, so pounded it flat and put it all back together.

It was nasty, corroded a bit and covered In grime.

Drove the Jeep home from 30 minutes away without even a hiccup.
I'm gonna redo the other 2 remaining grounds tomorrow.

I've ordered military spec battery terminals and a lug crimper. Gonna redo the terminals before taking it very far again.

That PCM ground does seem inadequate.
What is that like 16 gage wire?

I'd like to upgrade that too, but where is the other end? Do you have to splice into the small wire

Anyway, really appreciate all the advice.

I'm gonna have the best running Jeep on the road by the time this is done!




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I am pleased that your ZJ no longer hates you.
I have given the same advice to quite a few forum members, and a few have followed it. Even if the grounds are not the main issue, cleaning them costs nothing but time and effort and will save a lot of money in parts that were replaced because of a symptom caused by a sensor/PCM not getting a proper ground.

GW

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post #40 of 53 Old 02-02-2019, 05:55 PM
ZeeJay1997
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SMH...

There was a reason I spent hours upon hours writing the dirty dozen.

You can lead a horse to water...


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post #41 of 53 Old 02-02-2019, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeeJay1997 View Post
SMH...

There was a reason I spent hours upon hours writing the dirty dozen.

You can lead a horse to water...
Sorry to steal your thunder ZeeJay, I have read the dirty dozen several times and appreciate the work involved in such a detailed thread. I also understand that the grounds were once not so high on the list.
When I see a thread like this one where 5 or 6 guys "know" the PCM is the culprit and others have solved it with the (CKP/ CPS/ IAC etc.) sensor and the OP does not know which way to go I always question electrical connections, focusing on the often ignored grounds and battery terminals.

GW

P.S. I put a link to the dozen in my signature ZeeJay1997

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post #42 of 53 Old 02-02-2019, 07:44 PM
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Sorry to steal your thunder ZeeJay,
LOL, I have no thunder... just when i eat dry beans.

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P.S. I put a link to the dozen in my signature ZeeJay1997
Thanks, Maybe someone will read it.

I reckon it's the result of my ego that, when I find someone on here tearing into a PCM, I assume they have done all the simple and free things already. I suppose I should have dissected/ interpreted what had been posted in the thread.

However, through the the years, i have found only a handful of people who make a post and take the advise given. That's why I don't spend a lot of time on here anymore. People want immediate gratification.

Most people who are successful at the easy fix just take the info, do the repairs, and drive away without making a post.


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post #43 of 53 Old 02-02-2019, 08:46 PM
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I want to say thank you for writing this up for us ZJ guys.. I haven't had any issues with mine yet, but you can bet I'll be referencing it at some point.. And I too am going to put it in my signature.. If for nothing else, to make it easier for ME to find when I need it

Scott

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeJay1997 View Post
LOL, I have no thunder... just when i eat dry beans.



Thanks, Maybe someone will read it.

I reckon it's the result of my ego that, when I find someone on here tearing into a PCM, I assume they have done all the simple and free things already. I suppose I should have dissected/ interpreted what had been posted in the thread.

However, through the the years, i have found only a handful of people who make a post and take the advise given. That's why I don't spend a lot of time on here anymore. People want immediate gratification.

Most people who are successful at the easy fix just take the info, do the repairs, and drive away without making a post.


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post #44 of 53 Old 02-02-2019, 08:56 PM
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I want to say thank you for writing this up for us ZJ guys.

Your welcome. Good luck with the ZJ.


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post #45 of 53 Old 02-02-2019, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
xtrattitude4u
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Zeejay, thanks for making that, I am going through it right now. I use Tapatalk and it doesn't show the signature.

I feel I need to point out once more that I found wiggling the PCM connector was making the Jeep die.

I went after the problems I could identify first.

The coil tested out of range so I replaced it.
The dizzy had play and the cap/rotor we're both in dire need of replacement anyway, so I did that next.

Up to this point, the Jeep never acted up for me.
I just test drove it today and it died several times.

The surging before it died was strange, like someone was abrubtly tapping on the brakes.
I was able to get my spark plug tester on it while it was in crank no start condition and confirmed there was no spark while cranking.

The check engine light came on during the no crank but went away again.

Left my scan tool in the other car, will scan it and see if there's any clue there.

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