5.9L fan switch: aftermarket solution inside this thread - JeepForum.com
 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 85 Old 10-24-2013, 12:59 AM Thread Starter
RWC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 449
5.9L fan switch: aftermarket solution inside this thread

EDIT 6/5/2017

Summary

Here's my summary:

-BWD TFS8: my testing showed on at 210/212, off at 205. I ran it for about 6 months and it failed.
-Airtex/wells 1S4394/SW555 is the same as the TFS8. I think the one I tested was simply a bad switch, or was mis-boxed and was actually a TFS4.
-Wells SW575 is discontinued. Per Wells' published data, "Makes 210/220, breaks 203/208."
-Rodney Dickman FS110 200/210: My testing shows is makes around 207 and breaks closer to 190-195ish as measured by the PCM (in the low-speed location). In the high-speed location, it makes around 213ish and breaks at 210ish (as measured by the PCM). This remains my preferred set of switches.
-BeCool 75099: My testing matched the published spec. Makes at 210 and breaks at 190. Uses a screw-stud terminal.
-Plug that works on all except the BeCool: BWD PT770
-Plug for stock OEM harness: Corsa MP150.2-2p-2
-The SU109 is a variable resistance thermister, NOT a switch and DOES NOT WORK. It will turn the fan on, but the engine will not reduce temperature such that the voltage drops enough to trip the relay off.
-The replacement fan requires VDO PM9069 (motor), and Motorcraft WPT-168 (pigtail).
-High and low speed relays from Napa are ECH AR608. The ignition relay is Napa p/n ECH AR635, although it's packaged with a second relay on a bracket. I have tested these and am running them currently.

What follows is much of the original post as edited over time to reflect additional testing.

/EDIT


I purchased a BeCool p/n 75099, which makes at 210 and breaks at 190. I purchased it from Summit, and it arrived on my doorstep shortly thereafter via FedEx (which rapes us in Alaska) for $53 IIRC.




The BeCool switch is significantly longer than the OEM switch.




It is a 3/8" thread, and fits into the OEM T perfectly.




Even though it's longer, there is no worry about it bottoming out.




I soldered and shrink-tubed a ring terminal for the top post, and trimmed two spade terminals to plug into the OEM harness. If you don't care about your OEM harness, feel free to hack away your OEM connector and solder or ghetto-fab directly to your harness in whatever manner you prefer. I personally didn't want to be a DSPO should we ever get rid of this ZJ or should it eventually end up in a junkyard, or should the aftermarket decide to start making OEM-style switches.




The BeCool switch is designed to ground through the surface it's screwed into. That's problematic for us since the hose prevents a ground. Because I didn't want to modify the OEM T, I took a large diameter ring terminal, hogged it out a little with a carbide bit and a die-grinder so that it would fit around the base of the switch, and called it good. This also allowed me to use teflon tape to seal the threads without harming the integrity of the ground connection. Again, feel free to weld a nut to the T for a machine screw or weld a tab or do whatever you want to create the ground connection. I recommend NOT putting a screw directly into the T because you'll just create a new opportunity for a leak.

EDIT 10/9/14:
x10radsponge, via ZJ-John from TSF, has located/confirmed the correct pigtail connector!
http://www.corsa-technic.com/item.php?item_id=575
Additional pics can be found on the TSF thread about the low-speed fan switch.


EDIT 5/19/15:
I finally got around to ordering the connectors from Corsa and will personally confirm the connection:



/EDIT


EDIT 6/5/17
Made the upper pigtail using the Corsa plug:

/EDIT






Because I wanted to be anal, I plugged my half-spade terminals in and shrink-tubed around the assembly (please note that in this photo, the wires are crossed; the post terminal on the switch SHOULD be connected to the connector on the side with the tan wire with tracer. I incorrectly installed it in this photo. It is critical that the tan wire with tracer is connected to the switch post, and that the black wire is connected to the T or the switch base. The BeCool switch will NOT work in reverse.




Added some wire loom just because.




Taped the whole assembly up.



Using my cheap OBDII scan tool (I should note that we had an ambient temperature of 31 degrees F), the engine went up to 212 when the low-speed fan relay turned on. The temperature went down to 190 degrees, and the low-speed fan cycled off.

BOOM! Problem solved. So long as BeCool keeps making this switch, we have a solution.

/5.9L-fan-switch-unavailable




RE-EDIT on 9/14/14:

On 9/3/14 I posted that I had tried the SW555, and reported that it did nothing. Last weekend, I diagnosed that the low-speed fan had been failing intermittently. I replaced it with the VDO PM9069, and the Motorcraft WPT-168 pigtail, and tried the SW555 again. It turns out the SW555 was perfectly fine:




However, it didn't turn on until 221.




Off was perfect at 203. It was, however, not the advertised on at 210, off at 205, which was disappointing.



I'd previously reported on 9/3 that I therefore moved to the Rodney Dickman switch based on this failure. The rest of that report is as follows:



So I ordered the Rodney Dickman switch, which uses the same BWD pigtail. I took no pictures of the switch itself, but it had the same large diameter "probe" akin to the BeCool switch, and used the knock-sensor style plug like the SW555 (or a Chevy knock sensor). I will confirm another solution with this switch, although not at the advertised temperature range. Read on:







On consistently at 210, or just flicking to 212.



Off VERY consistently at 192.


While this isn't the advertised 200 off and is much more like the BeCool in its temperature range, it's less than half the cost of the BeCool. The Rodney Dickman links are below.







EDIT on 10/3/14
In tracking down additional cooling problems, and discovering an intermittent failure of the low-speed fan itself, I ended up testing my Rodney Dickman switch in the high-speed fan location just to see what it would do. It would turn on at 216, run for just a few seconds (4 or 5 seconds), and immediately shut off with the temperature still indicating at 212, but it would have pulled enough heat out of the radiator that the temperature would continue coasting down to 203 before it started climbing again. I liked that range for the high-speed fan more than my OEM switch, and decided it should live in the lower hose.

Ultimately, I ended up ordering a SILLA, p/n 2451AA, two-core fully-welded all aluminum (aluminum tanks too!) radiator, and two of the Stieger Performance aluminum "T"s, along with another Rodney Dickman switch. When placing the order for the second switch, I specifically asked to verify that it would be on at 210, off at 200. (This was after switching to a FlowKooler water pump and an EMP/Stewart "even flow" 195 degree thermostat.)
http://www.radiatorexpress.com/produ...aia_id=1315953
http://www.steigerperformance.com/PRODUCTS/sp40001.html
http://rodneydickman.com/catalog/pro...products_id=95
http://rodneydickman.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=233


Everything arrived and I tested the functionality of the new switch, in the low-speed (upper hose) position. It was consistently on at 207, and off at 194 or 195 (occasionally coasting down to 192). Even at highway speeds under load, the new fan had no problems pulling the temperature down to the 194 shut-off point, so I am satisfied with this set-up and will leave it alone.

The Ts are gorgeous works of art, with attached grounding points that work perfectly and elegantly. The upper hose accepted the T like it was designed, and looks cleaner than the OEM T. The lower hose, much to my dismay, is a slightly larger diameter. (I didn't realize this until I had the T in my hand.) Although not recommended, I pinched the lower hose down around the T anyway with the hose clamp and called it good.

One pic of the upper hose:


EDIT 10/22/16:
Candymancane has tested the BWD TSF4 (cross-reference to Wells/Airtex SW505 and A/C Delco D1855B), which is advertised to make at 211 and stay closed through 227 (it does not have a lower off position). This is an actual switch. His testing showed that the fan turned on at 214 and off at 203. His thread here:
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/j.../#post36636666

EDIT 10/24/16:
Per the above thread, Candymancane picked up a BWD TSF8 (cross-reference to the SW555), and got perfect results: on at 210 or 212, and off at 196 or 198. This confirms that my SW555 was a dud (or maybe I was sent an SW505 by mistake?), and provides another solid option for aftermarket switches! Woot!

EDIT 11/15/16:
I also ordered and tested the BWD TSF8, and got similar excellent results: on at 210 flicking to 212, off at 205.

RWC is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 85 Old 10-24-2013, 03:14 AM
Timo_90xj
Web Wheeler
 
Timo_90xj's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland - on the European side of the Atlantic
Posts: 9,929
Good info, thanks! I probably need to get a few of those

It's too bad so many of the 5.9 specific parts are no longer in production, or cost a LOT. Talk about the cooling fan motor.. Thank god there is an easy and cheap replacement though. Right now I'm in the process of replacing mine, low speed quit working about 1.5 years ago (I really didn't even notice until my A/C system discharged itself), and my ghetto-rigging of the high speed to turn on whenever low speed or high is required burnt the OEM motor within three months

1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 LX daily driver, 1.75" BB, 32" KM2s, HPD30 Eaton e-locker/D44a stock LSD, 4.56 gears, custom- fabbed tube bumpers and tube fenders,...


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
Timo_90xj is offline  
post #3 of 85 Old 10-24-2013, 07:55 AM
HighLonesome
Web Wheeler
 
HighLonesome's Avatar
1995 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 8,056
Very nice and ingenious.
HighLonesome is offline  
 
post #4 of 85 Old 11-12-2013, 07:16 PM
Mxlt
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mexicali
Posts: 51
Are the two switches the same?
The one in the upper hose and the one in the lower hose?

The one in the lower hose in my 5.9 seems to have failed. I put a jumper in the harness connector and the fan kicked in on high speed. With the plug connected to the lower switch, the fan doesn't work on high speed as it used to until a couple of day ago.
Mxlt is offline  
post #5 of 85 Old 11-14-2013, 01:15 AM Thread Starter
RWC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 449
The switches are the same. See my thread in TSF for an explanation of why and how the system works. Long story short: the switches can be the same, but activate the low/high speed relays separately, based on the temperature differential across the radiator.
RWC is offline  
post #6 of 85 Old 11-14-2013, 02:15 AM
Candymancan
Web Wheeler
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 5,548
I got lucky with mine.. I was in JY and found a 5.9 but didn't think anything about taking sensors from it.. then a week later my upper hose sensor died and I went back and thank god that Jeep was still there I got both sensors for $5 and now it works like before... Altho the fan kinda stays on longer then with the old sensor. Just glad I have one extra on me in case
Candymancan is offline  
post #7 of 85 Old 11-14-2013, 07:58 AM
Mxlt
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mexicali
Posts: 51
Thanks RWC, I understand how the system works, my only question was if the switches were the same. I had doubts because of the different temperatures the switches open/closes so I thought they weren't the same.

Regards
Mxlt is offline  
post #8 of 85 Old 12-04-2013, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
RWC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 449
UPDATE:

The BeCool switch is still working great! On at 212ish and off at 190, every time!

For the sake of completing the thread, I'd also like to mention that had the BeCool switch not worked, I ordered a SW555/AirTex 1S4394. This is a 3/8"-18 that makes at 210 and breaks at 205. Because it's the funky GM knock-sensor style of plug, it requires pigtail BWD PT770 or AC/Delco PT308, in addition to dealing with the grounding issue. It's sitting patiently on my shelf, and should the lower (high speed) switch fail, I'll slam this one in and see how it works. In the meantime, I'd encourage anyone else who wants to experiment to give the SW555 a shot and post up results.

There is also a switch listed here, but without an actual part number or manufacturer (and multiple prices for some reason):
http://rodneydickman.com/catalog/pro...products_id=95
http://rodneydickman.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=233
Same switch, with the pigtail:
http://rodneydickman.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=235
That makes at 210 and breaks at 200. It would require the same BWD PT770 or AC/Delco PT308 pigtail.
RWC is offline  
post #9 of 85 Old 03-14-2014, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
RWC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 449
UPDATE:

The BeCool switch is still working great!

I've also now located an aluminum 1.5" T with a 3/8" NPT thread, and a screw to accommodate either a quick-disconnect ground or a ring-terminal:
http://www.steigerperformance.com/PRODUCTS/sp40001.html

This is Steiger Performance part number 40002. In general, it looks like it would be a cleaner installation than the OEM T anyway. Although our Ts haven't failed, I may order this next month just to check it out, and move the BeCool ground over.
(EDIT: I have now received two of these Ts, along with an all-aluminum fully welded radiator from Silla. I intend on swapping everything this weekend and will update this report.)


I'm also researching relays. The OEM relay p/ns are 4607036 and 56007236, right? And it normally handles just under 40 amps?

This part number also is used as an ABS relay for Concords or something, and cross-references with MOPAR 5266187, and aftermarket numbers RY-5570, RY613, and 19380. AirTex has 1R1149. CARQUEST lists 56-1631 as an 80 amp relay (by Wells). ACDelco has C1792 (I can't actually find this one for sale anywhere though). BWD has R3148 (also can't actually find this one for sale). VF4-11F11 is also a 40 amp relay the cross-references. VF7-11F11 is a 70 amp relay that cross-references. RockAuto has the relay listed as a Four Seasons 35928 (but this looks like it's actually a blower motor relay rather than a 40+ amp relay). I've found several higher amp Bosch replacements as well, such as p/n 0 332 019 110, 0 332 209 138, and 0 332 209 137, which are all 50 amp.
http://texasindustrialelectric.com/relays.asp
There are several Bosch-sized 70 amp relays listed here too.

The ones that are actually for sale range in price from $10, to over $100. What prompted my investigation was looking into HID retrofits, and I saw this:
http://www.theretrofitsource.com/com...l#.Ux-xOP2UPug
These relays are 40 amp relays, and look like they'd plug into the 5.9L harness.

I have not obtained or tested any of these relays (yet).



EDIT

A member of one of the 5.9L Facebook groups ("Joe") has purchased and confirmed NAPA Echlin p/n ECH AR608 as the correct replacement e-fan relay, for ~$80. He ran this for 1.5 years prior to selling the ZJ, but still occasionally sees the Jeep around, 3 years after installing the relay. The visual shows that this is a direct plug-and-play replacement, with the proper clip for the wiring harness, and the proper metal tab for mounting on the fender. (I Have not been able to personally confirm the amperage rating, but the cross-references appear to show this as a correct 80 amp relay.) Per the NAPA website, this relay is in stock and available at my local NAPA for the online reservation and pick-up price of $60.75.

While researching documentation to confirm amperage and re-checking cross-references, I came up with pics showing that the (BorgWarner) BWD R3148 also has the correct wiring harness interface, and metal tab. This relay is available from O'Reilly's online and Advance Auto Parts online for $76.99.

The Standard Motor p/n RY-613 also appears to have the correct harness interface and metal tab. RockAuto has this listed for $52.89. Summit lists for $56.97. Amazon lists for $52.95.

The Wells 19380 is listed as an interchange, and I found documentation showing it to be an 80 amp relay. Photos show it to have the correct wiring harness interface and clip for the metal tab, but no metal tab. AutoZone online has this listed for $89.99.

Similarly (and not surprisingly since I think they're the same company), the AirTex 1R1149 also appears to have the correct harness and clip, but no metal tab. This is available from RockAuto.

The CARQUEST 56-1631 is also listed as an 80 amp relay, but since I think it's also a reboxed Wells/Airtex relay, the photos don't surprisingly suggest the same lack of metal tab. This relay is available even at my local CARQUEST.

/EDIT


EDIT 6/5/17
I diagnosed an intermittent failure of at least the low-speed relay, and likely the high speed relay or the ignition relay, along with the low-speed switch (TFS8) over the last week. I broke down about bought two ECH AR608 relays, along with the ECH AR635.




What immediately struck me about the AR608 is that it didn't match the photo from the NAPA websight. The pics showed essentially an identical relay: same size plastic housing, same molded wiring diagram in the side panel, and the same copper connectors, as OEM. But what came in the box was obviously smaller. Still rated for 40 amps though. I replaced both the high and low speed relays with the AR608 relays, and tested them for functionality. Everything seemed fine when I closed the hood last night.

I couldn't find the ignition relay packaged separately from the other random relay and bracket that comes with it in the AR635. I simply used a thin screwdriver to release the relay from its NAPA bracket and companion, and swapped it with a bracket from the dead low-speed relay I was throwing away. It was less than $30 for the AR635, so I didn't feel bad about tossing the bracket and companion relay.
/EDIT

And for the sake of having all the part numbers in this thread for my own easy personal reference, here is the info for the fan motor itself (mined from other threads; I have not personally done this conversion)

(EDIT: I have now done this conversion. It works as advertised, and was an incredibly easy swap. The cheapest fan motor I found was from O'Reilly's. None of the "normal" parts stores in town stocked the pigtail, but I found a dealership supplier that had one in stock. The pigtail even came with soldering joints and shrink-tubing.)

Fan Motor (application is for a '98-'00 Ford Crown Vic 4.6L, '98-'00 Mustang with a 4.6L, '98-00 Lincoln Town Car with a 4.6L, and a '98-'00 Mercury Grand Marquis with a 4.6L)-- VDO p/n 9069, AutoZone p/n PM9069, NAPA p/n BK 6551719
Pigtail-- Motorcraft p/n WPT-168, AirTex p/n 1P1152, Grainger 5ZDY5
Link to somebody else's fan motor replacement pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/4010925...7620884087193/
RWC is offline  
post #10 of 85 Old 03-14-2014, 02:34 PM
McCloudsZJ
Because RaceJeep
 
McCloudsZJ's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Roanoke
Posts: 2,730
Subscribed, crawled, and bookmarked for future reference (and every time somebody asks where they can get these switches).


March 2014 GCOTM. 1998 Deep Slate 5.9
On the Jeep:Hot intake, 52mm TB, Summit 8mm wires, catch can, 703s, insulated fuel rails, indexed Champions, Bilstein 4600s, Eibach lowering springs, Moog SS, Ironman mounts, Lotek 2GP, lots of gauges, sparkly paint.
In the garage: M1 4bbl
In the works: Addco/Hellwig sway bars, nitrous, full polly bushings, full exhaust, data logging, billet UD pulleys
McCloudsZJ is offline  
post #11 of 85 Old 03-14-2014, 02:44 PM
PolkaPower
Registered User
 
PolkaPower's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The Abyss
Posts: 22,600
This is awesome detective work!
PolkaPower is offline  
post #12 of 85 Old 03-14-2014, 03:08 PM
Timo_90xj
Web Wheeler
 
Timo_90xj's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland - on the European side of the Atlantic
Posts: 9,929
Great work! Those steiger parts are kinda aluminum CNC-porn if you ask me You certainly pay a bit of a premium on the parts, but they do look good. Too bad they aren't anodized


As for the relays, I'm still kind of stumped high- power relays are that costly/ hard to find there across the ocean. 70/ 80 amp relays are about 7$ (5) here..

1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 LX daily driver, 1.75" BB, 32" KM2s, HPD30 Eaton e-locker/D44a stock LSD, 4.56 gears, custom- fabbed tube bumpers and tube fenders,...


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
Timo_90xj is offline  
post #13 of 85 Old 03-15-2014, 07:40 AM
roughknight69
Registered User
 
roughknight69's Avatar
1995 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Jamestown ny
Posts: 1,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo_90xj
Great work! Those steiger parts are kinda aluminum CNC-porn if you ask me You certainly pay a bit of a premium on the parts, but they do look good. Too bad they aren't anodized As for the relays, I'm still kind of stumped high- power relays are that costly/ hard to find there across the ocean. 70/ 80 amp relays are about 7$ (5€) here..
Took me 2hrs to find a 70 amp relay here can only get it online.

Build thread
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
roughknight69 is offline  
post #14 of 85 Old 03-16-2014, 01:53 AM
Exdecuk
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London
Posts: 412
Yeah, its strange how SOME things this side of the water are cheaper & easier to find but MOST things are more expensive :-( I want to do the USB addition mod in a recent thread and i bet with that one i will get my bum smacked on the cost here.

A man will pay $2 for a $1 item he needs.

A woman will pay $1 for a $2 item that she doesn't need but it's on sale.
Exdecuk is offline  
post #15 of 85 Old 03-16-2014, 02:48 AM
Timo_90xj
Web Wheeler
 
Timo_90xj's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland - on the European side of the Atlantic
Posts: 9,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdecuk View Post
Yeah, its strange how SOME things this side of the water are cheaper & easier to find but MOST things are more expensive :-( I want to do the USB addition mod in a recent thread and i bet with that one i will get my bum smacked on the cost here.
So far the ONLY thing I've seen cheaper and more easily available here across the pond are the high- amp relays

..most other stuff that is mostly US- specific I order from eBay, Rockauto, or whatever.. a lot of things either can't be found on the correct style, or are prohibitively expensive. Want an example? I was replacing the two power steering hoses on the niner: 170 locally (Gates hoses, NOT from the stealership), exact same Gates hoses were ~20 from Rockauto + 50 for FedEX 2- day express shipping

1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 LX daily driver, 1.75" BB, 32" KM2s, HPD30 Eaton e-locker/D44a stock LSD, 4.56 gears, custom- fabbed tube bumpers and tube fenders,...


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
Timo_90xj is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome