42RE swap thread (no doubt help required at times.) - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 109 Old 05-16-2020, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
JaimeZX
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42RE swap thread (no doubt help required at times.)

Greetings all! I'm quite surprised there's no thread like this already on the forum.

In my last thread, I asked a series of questions about diagnosing a malfunctioning 42RE. At the end of the day I decided to order a new transmission.

So, the transmission arrived yesterday. I came home from running errands and there was a sort of lopsided package in my driveway by the garage. The delivery agents hadn't rang the bell or anything, according to my wife. So we levered the box up onto a dolly and pushed it into the garage, since rain was in the forecast.






The "Pallet" it arrived on was pretty beat up. I'll have to make some minor repairs before returning the core.


This afternoon my father-in-law came by and we figured we'd start the process of installation. But first... to attach an old piece of oak 2x10 to my jack. This was more effort than I expected, just because I didn't have a bolt quite long enough, but I counter-sunk the hole quite a bit to get a nut on the back-side of things and I was in business.





We opened up the box and looked inside. Behold!





After removing the (surprisingly heavy) torque converter and strapping, we had a nice view of the new beast:





Looks glorious, doesn't it?

We pulled the new transmission up and set it on the oak to try and determine the center-of-gravity for the thing, which I think is just towards the back of the pan. Ideally I will have this centered over the actual jack piece itself. Does that make sense to everyone?


So... then I crawled under the Jeep and removed the transmission skid plate; 3x 15mm bolts that were still quite tight from when I installed the thing back in ~2013.

Now at this point I would reference the service manual to see what steps are required to remove the transmission. Unfortunately my PDF stops at page 30 and the R2 procedure starts on page 35, according to the Table of Contents.

Undeterred, I forged ahead. I knew the exhaust system was in the way, so I set about removing it. This may be complicated by my installation of Kolak exhaust 18 months ago. The exhaust shop added a new hanger since one of them had rusted away. Anyway, I busted out my impact gun, a 12" extension, and a 14mm deep socket to remove the two flange nuts. Unfortunately I took no pictures of this.

With the flange nuts off I assumed I would be able to slide the system down off of the manifold studs... but no luck. The flange itself seems to be a separate piece that was clearly loose at this point because I could move it around with my fingers. And the exhaust pipe connecting up into the manifold was obviously loose because I could wiggle it and see it wiggle, but it stubbornly refused to slide the 1" down the studs. I yanked on the thing quite aggressively but it didn't budge. I tried gently "persuading" it with spirited taps near the manifold, but no luck. The downpipe is unwilling to separate from the manifold.

So. It being 6PM, I threw up my hands and came in for a shower and adult beverage, and to reference the Internets.

So, fellow Jeepers, my questions thus far:

1) What am I missing in the exhaust removal here? Obviously there's no way for me to take it out completely because all joints are welded and it goes over the rear axle, but I assume I can swing it out of the way somehow. Will loosening the crossmember under the transmission enable this? At what point should I drop the crossmember?

2) According to the Internets, here are a list of things to disconnect:
Negative battery cable. Exhaust front pipe. Transmission braces. Transmission cooler lines. Starter. Crank Position Sensor. Torque converter access cover. Dipstick tube. Propeller shafts after marking them. Park/neutral switch connector. Shift cable. Throttle valve cable. Shift rod. Crossmember. Transfer case vent hose. Transfer case.
Do I expect to drop the Transfer Case with the transmission, or separate them first?

3) Anyone have pages 31+ of the FSM?

4) What would you all be doing right now?

Thanks! More to follow.


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post #2 of 109 Old 05-16-2020, 06:42 PM
paulsheer2
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The transmission cross-member and the front exhaust need to come off together while the transmission is supported by a wood-block or trestle or something. I have a V8 so I have a y-pipe. The bolts to the manifold are through bolts with a nut on the other side. The nut is tabbed so it does not turn. You need to turn the bolt until the bolt and nut both fall on the floor.

The V-6 may be different.

The stock front exhaust and the mid exhaust have an overlap joint with a clamp. In a stock setup the clamp is tightened so much that two are permanently *deformed* *together*. Separating them requires a separator tool or an acetylene torch to heat red hot. I replaced my clamp with a stainless lap joint on my Dodge so I can remove it easily.

Removing the exhaust is the hardest part -- it took me a week because I had hardly any of the right tools at the time.

An exhaust shop will never bother putting things back like OEM, so I have no idea what you have. Usually an exhaust shop will just weld everything together right there while it is hanging because it is easier and they are really good pipe welders. It may be impossible to disassemble without cutting.

Also note there are plenty of cheep tools to cut exhaust pipe that are easy to use on your back under the car.
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post #3 of 109 Old 05-16-2020, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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Interesting. Okay, so I have a few other things I can remove, but I'll see if supporting the tranny and removing the cross-member will help me worm the down pipe off the manifold bolts. As you indicated - yes, at this point everything from the down-pipe back is welded. There are no separable joints anywhere. So I may have to look at cutting the pipe if I can't move it out of the way, sounds like. And then I guess... drive noisily back to the exhaust shop when the job is done and ask them to fix it? lol

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post #4 of 109 Old 05-16-2020, 09:56 PM
StormChaserTim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaimeZX View Post
Interesting. Okay, so I have a few other things I can remove, but I'll see if supporting the tranny and removing the cross-member will help me worm the down pipe off the manifold bolts. As you indicated - yes, at this point everything from the down-pipe back is welded. There are no separable joints anywhere. So I may have to look at cutting the pipe if I can't move it out of the way, sounds like. And then I guess... drive noisily back to the exhaust shop when the job is done and ask them to fix it? lol
Once you pull the trans crossmember, and trans mount, the exhaust should move, as I think the exhaust is supported by the trans mount.

I just had to change my trans mount, and that is how it was set up, but my ZJ is 2wd - your mileage may vary.

Tim
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post #5 of 109 Old 05-17-2020, 03:55 PM
zjosh93
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No need to cut the pipe on the 4.0. I've had the 42RE out and in my 93 five or six times. I can do it in a couple hours now. Mine is a 2WD but here's what I do:

Before you start, drain the fluid as best you can and put the Jeep up on jack stands.
1. Disconnect the battery.
2. Remove the starter.
3. Remove the inspection cover in front of the torque converter, spray some paint in there on the flywheel and converter so you get them back the way they came off easily (some combos have one offset bolt that can be a pain to get right), and remove the converter bolts. Do not lose them. They are a little oddball and the length is pretty important.
4. Remove the nuts holding the exhaust to the manifold. It'll move but won't come free because the exhaust hangers hold it too tightly. Disconnect the oxygen sensors too or you'll hurt the wires when the exhaust comes down.
5. Remove rear driveshaft and plug hole in trans (I assume you'd pull both driveshafts).
6. Not sure about dropping the TC, I assume others will chime on on that. I also assume you'd pull it first.
7. Put a bottle jack under the back of the trans and lift it a little to take the weight off the cross member and mount.
8. Remove cross member and mount bolts and slide the cross member off the exhaust hanger.
9. Shake the exhaust free of the manifold. It might be stuck because ham handed mechanics over tighten the nuts and bend the studs in so the pipe won't come out. Let the exhaust sag onto the ground and push it to the passenger side. No need to cut it.
10. Put your floor jack under the trans. I have a special tray made from 3/4 plywood to support the trans on the pan rail and protect the pan but a big flat piece of wood works too. Note that the 42RE with torque converter and the stock pan doesn't naturally want to balance. You'll want to strap it down. Unless you can bench press it off your chest. Support the trans on the floor jack and remove the bottle jack on the rear of the trans.
11. Lower the trans slightly. Disconnect the cooler lines, shifter cable, TV cable, neutral safety switch, and main trans wire harness plug and secure them out of the way. You can do this earlier too. It's a balance of how much fluid do you want dripping on you versus how hard is it to disconnect that stuff with the trans tucked up in the tunnel.
12. Disconnect the vehicle speed sensor(s). Again, you can do this anytime but it's easier with the engine and trans sagging a little.
13. I think you need to unbolt the shifter bracket to get to one of the bellhousing bolts but not 100% certain.
14. Disconnect the six bolts holding the trans to the engine. Two go into the separator plate and will need a wrench on the backside to hold the nut. The other 4 go into the block and don't need a nut. A bunch of extensions and a wobble or universal joint make this easier.
15. Wiggle the dipstick tube out. If you didn't drain the fluid earlier, this is where it will come flooding out in a bit.
16. The trans should now be ready to come out. Give it one last look over to make sure you didn't miss anything. You can leave it sagging down but you'll want to put a jack under the front of the engine or the back of the engine will spring up when the trans comes free and the trans will be hard to slide out. Or lift the trans to take the weight off the engine and let it slide back. Like I said earlier it's a bear to keep it stable unless it's strapped down. Watch out, the converter likes to get hung up on the flywheel flange and pull out.

I may have missed something but that's what I remember.

I welded two big D rings to my jack pad so I can strap transmissions down. It really helps but isn't as good as a real trans jack. Not that you have room for a real trans jack under there unless you have a lot taller jack stands than I'm comfortable working under. For me, I've always had to use the jack to lower the trans and then let it slide to the ground to get enough room to slide it out. Getting the trans up on the jack to put it back in while under the Jeep can tricky but is doable.

If you buy some long 7/16-14 bolts, but the heads off, and slot the shaft for a screwdriver you can put them in the lower block holes and it will greatly simplify getting the trans back in and aligned.

Make triple sure the converter is fully seated. Should be about 1/8" or so between the converter and flywheel when it's installed. If there is no gap the converter isn't seated in the pump and bad things are going to happen.

Last edited by zjosh93; 05-18-2020 at 07:11 AM. Reason: Minor corrections
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post #6 of 109 Old 05-17-2020, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Man that is AWESOME. And helpful. I have some follow-up questions, which I will ask at the bottom of this post.

------------------------

So when we last left our hero... er... poor bastard or whatever... he hadn't posted a pic of un-attached exhaust. I'm sure you were all dying to know what that looked like... Well WONDER NO MORE.



Stunning, isn't it?


So, decided to make what progress I could with the pipe in place.

Removed the starter, with a little help from
. I think those are 13mm nuts for the wiring connections and an 8mm for the ground.
Then, the two bolts holding on the starter are 15mm / 9/16ths. Came off quite easily. Covered with as much old oil as the one in the video.
It got a liberal spray of degreaser and attention with several paper towels.
I gotta say, this ZJ starter was a million times easier than on my old BMW 540, that was a nightmare.

Look ma! No starter.




Grimey...




So then I quickly and easily removed the 3x 13mm bolts holding the torque converter cover in position and slid that out of the way.
Anyone reading this in hopes of following in my footsteps: save yourself a few minutes and remove the cover towards the driver's side.
It won't go the other way no matter how much you think it might, and how many angles you try.





Now. The exhaust still didn't want to move at this point. I was convinced that StormChaserTim was right, and I had to drop the crossmember.
I cut a piece of 2x4 to ~16" to put below the TC at this point.

The crossmember was held on by 4x 15mm bolts and 2x 15mm nuts. Once down, you have a clear view of a rubber transmission mount thing
and the exhaust hanger. This is more challenging to remove because you have two more 15mm bolts, also four 16mm bolts. Two of each.
But two of the 16mm bolts are recessed and the hole is just *barely* big enough to fit a socket, and one is blocked by
the transmission mount so you need to use a box-end wrench to access it. Or at least I did. Sorry I don't have any pictures of this.
I was deep into swearing.


Eventually you get the transmission mount + exhaust hanger out and it looks like this:





With those things out of the way, there's no exhaust hanger to keep you from pulling down on the exhaust downpipe, and it should come out
with just a bit of tugging:







Now, here are the three pieces in question, just not stacked like they are in the vehicle:






Immediately above the crossmember is the piece in the foreground, then above that sits the curvy bracket at left, which bolts to the bottom of the tranny.



Questions from here:
1) While the exhaust is hanging, it's basically just hanging on the one hanger at the rear bumper now. I've tried pushing it over to the passenger's side,
but there's an awful lot of spring tension or something holding it in it's usual location. I guess I can get a line and pull it over and tie it to the nerf bar...
or am I doing something wrong here?

2) zjosh93, how would you modify item 3 in your post if you also have a new TC? Should I still mark the flywheel / TC so that when I have them out I can compare to the new setup? Or will that be irrelevant?

3) zjosh93 brings up a good question in #6. Am I dropping the transfer case as well? Or does that stay up and I just separate it from the tranny in position? For that matter... I have to figure out how to disconnect the 2-4 shift linkage to the TC. An initial cursory glance didn't reveal anything obvious.

4) zjosh93... when you say "lower trans slightly," how much do you mean? 1 inch? Two? Five?

5) In your #14, I have two 12" extensions and several of the 3-4" ones And I think a wobble. Any other special tricks? Your two at the end of the post are great.

Thanks all, so far!

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post #7 of 109 Old 05-18-2020, 07:41 AM
zjosh93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaimeZX View Post
Questions from here:
1) While the exhaust is hanging, it's basically just hanging on the one hanger at the rear bumper now. I've tried pushing it over to the passenger's side,
but there's an awful lot of spring tension or something holding it in it's usual location. I guess I can get a line and pull it over and tie it to the nerf bar...
or am I doing something wrong here?

2) zjosh93, how would you modify item 3 in your post if you also have a new TC? Should I still mark the flywheel / TC so that when I have them out I can compare to the new setup? Or will that be irrelevant?

3) zjosh93 brings up a good question in #6. Am I dropping the transfer case as well? Or does that stay up and I just separate it from the tranny in position? For that matter... I have to figure out how to disconnect the 2-4 shift linkage to the TC. An initial cursory glance didn't reveal anything obvious.

4) zjosh93... when you say "lower trans slightly," how much do you mean? 1 inch? Two? Five?

5) In your #14, I have two 12" extensions and several of the 3-4" ones And I think a wobble. Any other special tricks? Your two at the end of the post are great.

Thanks all, so far!
1. My exhaust isn't stock, so it's been awhile, but I think the stock exhaust didn't want to move over as much as my current exhaust. I think I did use a ratchet strap to hold it over at some point.

3. Measure between the bolt holes on your new converter and your old flywheel. Ideally either they both are all equally spaced (90 degree flywheel) or are both have two measurements the same, one a little shorter, and one a little longer (offset flywheel). Some of them have one bolt offset 5 degrees. It's about 1/8" IMS. A lot of people just slot one hole so it will fit. Mine has been this way for 10 years with no issues.

4. Maybe 3-4 inches I'd guess. Just enough to make things easier to get to. No sense putting a lot of stress on the motor mounts.

5. Only thing that come to mind is to be careful torquing down the cross member bolts. They don't take a huge amount of torque, and it's not uncommon for people to strip them.
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post #8 of 109 Old 05-18-2020, 08:23 AM
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You have quite a project. From something in one of your posts about using a hydraulic press on base, I'm suspecting you may be in one of the services. If so, thank you for your service.

PM me your email address and I'll email you a PDF with the transmission removal and installation pages from the 1995 Chrysler Jeep Factory Service Manual (FSM).

Yes, the transfer case and crossmember get removed after disconnecting both driveshafts. The FSM says to mark the orientation of the U-joint caps and positioning of the yokes so that you can reassemble them in the same orientation. Or you might install new U Joints. You might be able move the driveshafts far enough aside so that you don't need to disconnect them at the axles. You might consider replacing the transmission mount at this time.

This post describes replacing my engine and transmission mounts. For illustration purposes, here is a picture of the 93-95 crossmember/transmission mount above the 96-98 crossmember/mount.



My exhaust system was the same as yours, continuous from front to back. I used a saws-all to cut it into pieces and replaced everything from the manifold on back. The muffler had many holes in it and wouldn't pass annual inspection.

This post describes my exhaust system work. If needed for transmission access, you might consider cutting the exhaust pipe ahead of the catalytic converter (sawsall) and then using one of these clamps to re-connect the front and back parts of the exhaust system. They come in same size front and back and different sizes as pictured. I used these clamps to hopefully make it possible to disassemble the exhaust system in the future without cutting it.

Hope this helps.
Attached Thumbnails
Clamp.jpg  

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post #9 of 109 Old 05-18-2020, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
JaimeZX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zjosh93 View Post
1. My exhaust isn't stock, so it's been awhile, but I think the stock exhaust didn't want to move over as much as my current exhaust. I think I did use a ratchet strap to hold it over at some point.
Cool.

Quote:
3. Measure between the bolt holes on your new converter and your old flywheel. Ideally either they both are all equally spaced (90 degree flywheel) or are both have two measurements the same, one a little shorter, and one a little longer (offset flywheel). Some of them have one bolt offset 5 degrees. It's about 1/8" IMS. A lot of people just slot one hole so it will fit. Mine has been this way for 10 years with no issues.
OK I'll check out the new TC and reference that against the old one when I get it out to see what difference there is, if any.

Quote:
4. Maybe 3-4 inches I'd guess. Just enough to make things easier to get to. No sense putting a lot of stress on the motor mounts.
cool

Quote:
5. Only thing that come to mind is to be careful torquing down the cross member bolts. They don't take a huge amount of torque, and it's not uncommon for people to strip them.
Werd. I'll check out the torque specs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlamoJeeper
This post describes replacing my engine and transmission mounts. For illustration purposes, here is a picture of the 93-95 crossmember/transmission mount above the 96-98 crossmember/mount.
Cool, that's helpful. I think the current mount is still in pretty good shape, but it's probably also 25 years old so maybe I should source a replacement. Guess I could hit the JY to see if they have a 1996-1997 setup... but then I'd need to figure out how to bend the hanger bar to fit the different position... hmmm. hmmmmmmm

Quote:
Yes, the transfer case and crossmember get removed after disconnecting both driveshafts. The FSM says to mark the orientation of the U-joint caps and positioning of the yokes so that you can reassemble them in the same orientation. Or you might install new U Joints. You might be able move the driveshafts far enough aside so that you don't need to disconnect them at the axles. You might consider replacing the transmission mount at this time.
Okay, so remove TC before dropping tranny then? Any special technique here?

Quote:
My exhaust system was the same as yours, continuous from front to back. I used a saws-all to cut it into pieces and replaced everything from the manifold on back. The muffler had many holes in it and wouldn't pass annual inspection.
Mine is pretty new, but I'll cut it ahead of the cat if necessary. Thanks for the clamp idea!!

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post #10 of 109 Old 05-18-2020, 03:50 PM
StormChaserTim
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Oh, Jaime, I forgot to mention -

All you had to do to pull the crossmember was pull the 18MM through bolt holding the mount to the crossmember bracket, and then the 2 bolts on the driver side - loosen the 2 on the passenger side, and the crossmember will slide out to the driver's side. Once the crossmember is out of the way, you have clear access to the two bolts holding the trans mount to the trans bracket.

When you do go back together, install the mount bracket to the crossmember, but leave it slightly loose, so you can jiggle and wiggle things back in. Put the two bolts back in the passenger side frame so putting the crossmember in is not as big a chore.

Mine required a little finesse, plus a bit of muscle to line back up, but this may be due to my engine mounts being the originals, and older than the hills.

Tim

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post #11 of 109 Old 05-18-2020, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
JaimeZX
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Today's update might be less satisfying.

Did I mention I love my ultrasonic cleaner? Just wish it were bigger... These things had a thick coat of rust and gunk on them.
My magic combo is white vinegar and a squirt of dish soap. And many, many of the machine's 5-minute cycles...
Now just a slight patina from air-drying. (Lots more where this sample came from...)





Also took advantage of some nice weather to put some plants in the front flower bed...
Along the border are a bunch of volunteer petunias from last year. I will thin them soon.





OK BACK TO JEEP


Hit front of rear drive shaft with a squirt of paint to mark its alignment, then removed it. That one was easy. (four 8mm bolts and a gentle nudge with
a large screwdriver.) My question comes with the front drive shaft.

The four 8mm bolts at the front diffy / U-joint were easy. Even though the front of the Jeep is on ramps so I couldn't spin the shaft,
access was a piece of cake with my gun and an extension.





NOW. The four 8mm bolts at the TC are a much bigger pain because the access is TIGHT!! I couldn't even fit a "-drive ratchet in there,
much less put my impact gun on the thing. I COULD fit an 8mm box-end wrench, but unfortunately I just don't have enough leverage
on a wrench that short to break the bolts loose. Maybe I should hit them with some Liquid Wrench before bed.





QUESTIONS AT THIS STEP:

1) What did you guys do?
2) Do I have to actually remove the front drive shaft?
3) ...or is it okay to just let it hang there? Guess I can hang it loosely from the suspension with a cord... Thoughts?



MOVING ON TO THE TRANSFER CASE...

At the Transfer Case I clearly need to remove this shifter rod. Is there a good technique for this?





It would also appear that I'll not be using the impact gun on some or all of these nuts since there's no clearance for that either...
With luck I'll be able to fit a ratchet/socket in there. Haven't tried it yet.
Who has a good trick for this?





With luck I can have the TC down tomorrow.


And now, for a moment of levity.

Annoyingly, if the wind is such that rain falls against my garage door, some will go under the door and come into the garage,
where it puddles underneath the Jeep. The cardboard I have down to catch stray fluid helpfully absorbs this water...
but since it's multi-layered the top has remained dry while the bottom is saturated.*

It has been too long, apparently, since I last changed the cardboard. I noticed my creeper was squishing and tearing the cardboard.
So I pull up the cardboard and it's gross... and wet... and... slimy? Like, actually slimy. WTH.

I pull back the disintigrating-in-my-hands cardboard more to reveal an ENORMOUS SLUG.
LIVING IN MY GARAGE UNDER MY JEEP UNDER WET CARDBOARD IS A HUGE SLUG.




IS THAT SLUG POOP???






* Pro-tip: shop at Costco. You can just take the cardboard that separates layers of product on their pallets.
Pallet-sized pieces of cardboard are good for everything from absorbing Jeep oil to keeping contractors' shoes from
dirtying your rug when they come to work on your bathroom.

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post #12 of 109 Old 05-19-2020, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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Where'd all my experts go?!

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post #13 of 109 Old 05-19-2020, 01:53 PM
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I can't help with the 4WD stuff since mine's 2WD. I'd say use the 8mm wrench and the double wrench trick. Won't help you torque them down to reinstall though.
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post #14 of 109 Old 05-19-2020, 05:57 PM
StormChaserTim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaimeZX View Post
Where'd all my experts go?!
Sorry, Jaime....I work from home, and I live on an acre.

Today was cut the yard day....and I got a LOT of it!



I'm also a 2wd guy, but...I have also been working on cars for 30 years. The linkage looks to me like a wrench job. Break torque on that little nut, spin it off, then slide off the linkage. That would be what I would try first.

On the transfer case, I'd see if I could use gear wrenches. It'd be a little slow going, but that should get them loose, and it would be quicker than just regular wrenches.

You actually have two options there. You COULD see if the trans and transfer case will come down as one unit, then you could seperate them and re-join them on the ground. That might make it a bit heavy and unwieldy though, and could be hard to handle for one person. The other way is to undo the bolts, and slide it off as it sits, then come down with the trans.

Tim
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post #15 of 109 Old 05-19-2020, 09:33 PM
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Liquid Wrench/PB Blaster is definitely your friend. Applied twenty-four hours before, then twelve hours, then twenty minutes. You probably know that the correct sized socket or box end wrench is less likely to round off hex corners than open end wrenches. Something UniBlurb suggests is turning a fastener both ways repetitively while breaking a bolt or nut loose. Heat applied to the fastener or nut with a torch can help break it loose. Moderate heat, making sure there is nothing flammable around.

FWIW, the Factory Service Manual (FSM) says to remove the transfer case and then the transmission. Securing each piece to your oak board on your jack before sliding it rearward off of its locating dowels.

Again, FWIW, I pretty slavishly follow the FSM procedures and torque values. It seems to save time and be less likely to injure myself.

Hope this helps.

AlamoJeeper
- 1995 4.0L NP249 - mostly stock
- Link to rehabbing my 1995 ZJ.
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