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post #19696 of 28034 Old 09-13-2016, 05:57 PM
shaggyjim
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Originally Posted by 89YJBuilder View Post
That's nature. She is a cruel [email protected]^$

I love equines but isn't nature supposed to be the right way for a wild animal?
You meant domestic animals abandoned and made to fend for themselves by "wild" right?


Jim...


......YJOTM June 18......
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post #19697 of 28034 Old 09-13-2016, 06:06 PM
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There is a lot to the wild horses issue, but we've all heard it all, so no point in rehashing it.

The thing is HSUS is consistently against all forms of sport hunting. If that is an organization you choose to support, you will have to do it without me.

A wild horse to me, is wildlife. Not pets. The same as a coyote is wildlife, not a pet Fido.

Anyway, just to show that I'm not as heartless as that seems, check out a documentary film called "Unbranded". Really good, and shines a light on the wild horse adoption program, without being too political in the process. You can find it on Netfilx.

Bill
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post #19698 of 28034 Old 09-13-2016, 06:15 PM
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@shaggyjim
It's about cattle not horses. That's my point.

I'm against the cattle on MY (and your land)
Cattle lead to barbed wire and off limits to Jeeps.

Suddenly I made this a Jeep issue.
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A Law repugnant to the Constitution is void. Marbury vs. Madison 1803 I'm talking to you, Virginia...
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post #19699 of 28034 Old 09-13-2016, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Luuca View Post
OK, just wanted to apologize to everyone for the slow response times on stickers and the shirts. You all know the projects and builds I've just finished and I do have a "real" job as well, so I won't go into excuses. That said, please don't email me snarky ***** about how upset you are that your $2 worth of stickers hasn't arrived yet. I'm doing the best I can. If anyone wants to take this over, I'll hand them the keys.
I'm down

Email me at [email protected] if your serious
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post #19700 of 28034 Old 09-13-2016, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Michaelgoesrawr View Post
Lol BLM who wants to kill 45k horses? Thats a joke. They may be experts but they're ****ty managers.
There wouldn't be 45k horses in pens, if they had been allowed to manage the problem the way wildlife should be managed.

If you don't want the horses euthanized, then I assume you will be adopting one or more.

Bill
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post #19701 of 28034 Old 09-13-2016, 06:34 PM
shaggyjim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisnvegas View Post
@shaggyjim
It's about cattle not horses. That's my point.

I'm against the cattle on MY (and your land)
Cattle lead to barbed wire and off limits to Jeeps.

Suddenly I made this a Jeep issue.
You have no idea how much I'm with you on that issue Chris!

Jim...


......YJOTM June 18......
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post #19702 of 28034 Old 09-13-2016, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bpounds View Post
There wouldn't be 45k horses in pens, if they had been allowed to manage the problem the way wildlife should be managed.

If you don't want the horses euthanized, then I assume you will be adopting one or more.
I dislike horses!

I ain't climbing on anything that weighs 1000 lbs and has a brain the size of a walnut.

And I know jack about this Humane Society.

I only know the issue is cattle.

And I'm not anti hunting.
Cattle move in, elk move out, we lose our 4x4 recreation areas.

There were a million wild horses here in 1900.
There are 30,000 now and 58,226,015.6 acres of public land.

The only wild horse problem is the Nevada Cattleman's association.
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A Law repugnant to the Constitution is void. Marbury vs. Madison 1803 I'm talking to you, Virginia...
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post #19703 of 28034 Old 09-13-2016, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrisnvegas View Post
21 road?
I've built roads for 20 years.
That ain't a road.

Don't hold me accountable for this Chris because I've only been around the valley for 5 years now but these creative Colorado folks like to name the roads by how far away they are from the Utah border. Such as I live on 26 road! 26 road is about 26 miles from Utah and about 5 miles from 21 road. Its all good unless you live on, like, 33 and F & 7/10's road....
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post #19704 of 28034 Old 09-13-2016, 06:47 PM
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I like steak. I really like steak a lot. And I like being able to afford a steak.

Access is one thing. We're talking BLM land, so I'm not sure how that relates. Cattle and horses do compete for forage (and the other wildlife). The thing about cattle is, the rancher moves them around, removes them altogether part of the year, and it is in his own best interest to not over graze his leases. Horses on the other hand, stand there 365 days a year, and the only restraint on their over grazing is left to the BLM. There is no reason we can't have horses and cattle. But we have to get over the bleeding heart belief that every horse must be protected.

Bill
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post #19705 of 28034 Old 09-13-2016, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89YJBuilder
That's nature. She is a cruel [email protected]^$ I love equines but isn't nature supposed to be the right way for a wild animal?
"Nature supposed to be the right way"

That depends on ones definition of nature. Which changes depending on ones philosophical perspective which is most often formed out of ones cultural traditions and sometimes a culture leans heavy on religion or spirituality in passing on its traditions and sometimes...

Ya, so life is complex. Nature is a variable sure, but looking at nature independently of mankind from mankinds perspective makes the intellectual leap which does not count man as part of nature...

The real question is in how do we handle nature as humans - the dominant species - to neither harm it nor ignore balancing its management to the compromised satisfaction of all parties.

Too many things in life just can't be handled with an on-and-off switch. A cattleman's fences are like an A/B switch: the ranchers 'rights' supersede all other users rights when a fence goes up.

Of course then we have to define what we believe a 'wild' animal is...LOL

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post #19706 of 28034 Old 09-13-2016, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luuca
OK, just wanted to apologize to everyone for the slow response times on stickers and the shirts. You all know the projects and builds I've just finished and I do have a "real" job as well, so I won't go into excuses. That said, please don't email me snarky ***** about how upset you are that your $2 worth of stickers hasn't arrived yet. I'm doing the best I can. If anyone wants to take this over, I'll hand them the keys.
ummm why would anyone be that mad about a sticker??? You're doing the best you can and we all appreciate it. Don't worry about how long it takes, we don't mind. At least I don't. I had to wait 2-1/2 months for my leaf spring to be SHIPPED from bds then an additional 2-1/2 weeks for them to get to me. Long story short, you're doing awesome man!
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post #19707 of 28034 Old 09-13-2016, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpounds View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelgoesrawr View Post
Lol BLM who wants to kill 45k horses? Thats a joke. They may be experts but they're ****ty managers.
There wouldn't be 45k horses in pens, if they had been allowed to manage the problem the way wildlife should be managed.

If you don't want the horses euthanized, then I assume you will be adopting one or more.
We already did. His name is Cash.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bpounds View Post
There is a lot to the wild horses issue, but we've all heard it all, so no point in rehashing it.

The thing is HSUS is consistently against all forms of sport hunting. If that is an organization you choose to support, you will have to do it without me.

A wild horse to me, is wildlife. Not pets. The same as a coyote is wildlife, not a pet Fido.

Anyway, just to show that I'm not as heartless as that seems, check out a documentary film called "Unbranded". Really good, and shines a light on the wild horse adoption program, without being too political in the process. You can find it on Netfilx.
Im against sport hunting, not in the "I'll light your rig on fire" sense but I certainly won't congratulate you on hitting your bird limit or that buck with a nice rack. Maybe I'm a hippocrite because I fish on occasion, so be it. If the fish bites the hook that's on them. It's not a question of weather or not they have been manged effectively or not, because it's clear that they werent. The idea of a culling to fix that is the problem. The idea that as humans we can do whatever the hell we wish to animals and it's a okay. They aren't culling them for more grazing room either. They have dedicated pastures for them in flyover states and public grazing has decreased in the last few years, so the idea of this happening for cheap beef is questionable.

I'll watch that tonight too. I saw a post or something for it but wasn't sure what it was about.

Just because something is wild, doesn't mean we have the right to do what we wish with it. Horses, coyotes, whatever.
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post #19708 of 28034 Old 09-14-2016, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelgoesrawr View Post

We already did. His name is Cash.

Im against sport hunting, not in the "I'll light your rig on fire" sense but I certainly won't congratulate you on hitting your bird limit or that buck with a nice rack. Maybe I'm a hippocrite because I fish on occasion, so be it. If the fish bites the hook that's on them. It's not a question of weather or not they have been manged effectively or not, because it's clear that they werent. The idea of a culling to fix that is the problem. The idea that as humans we can do whatever the hell we wish to animals and it's a okay. They aren't culling them for more grazing room either. They have dedicated pastures for them in flyover states and public grazing has decreased in the last few years, so the idea of this happening for cheap beef is questionable.

I'll watch that tonight too. I saw a post or something for it but wasn't sure what it was about.

Just because something is wild, doesn't mean we have the right to do what we wish with it. Horses, coyotes, whatever.
Do you like hitting deers at 70mph? What about coyotes coming into your yard and killing your dog? Or possibly a loved one? Deer season is a season so we don't kill them all but it still makes a impact on their population so the roads are a semi safer place to travel. Same with coyotes we have so many coyotes here it's actually unsafe to walk around at night (they packed up) I know someone that just shoots them from his door and more are still coming.

Would you rather have a animal die from a killshot and fast death or being hit by a car and laying on the side of the highway for hours?

Also alot of people that hunt around here store the meat to eat later. Does that still make it not right?
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post #19709 of 28034 Old 09-14-2016, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by xrunndonex View Post
Do you like hitting deers at 70mph? What about coyotes coming into your yard and killing your dog? Or possibly a loved one? Deer season is a season so we don't kill them all but it still makes a impact on their population so the roads are a semi safer place to travel. Same with coyotes we have so many coyotes here it's actually unsafe to walk around at night (they packed up) I know someone that just shoots them from his door and more are still coming.

Would you rather have a animal die from a killshot and fast death or being hit by a car and laying on the side of the highway for hours?

Also alot of people that hunt around here store the meat to eat later. Does that still make it not right?
Wow...there's just so much wrong with this post.

Coyote attacks on humans are reported almost as often as Bigfoot attacks on humans. And stating that if you don't shoot an animal it will be killed by getting hit by a car takes some serious leaps in logic to establish a cause and effect relationship.

If you need to kill an animal for food or to protect yourself, loved ones, or livestock that's one thing. But killing an animal for sport means you either have a mental issue or are just a bad person, regardless of trying to convince people you did it a favor. Human population is out of control but I doubt you'll convince too many people you'd be doing them a favor by shooting them.
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post #19710 of 28034 Old 09-14-2016, 07:23 AM
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Wow...there's just so much wrong with this post.……… If you need to kill an animal for food or to protect yourself, loved ones, or livestock that's one thing. But killing an animal for sport means you either have a mental issue or are just a bad person, regardless of trying to convince people you did it a favor. Human population is out of control but I doubt you'll convince too many people you'd be doing them a favor by shooting them.
Hey, do you eat steak? Chicken? Bacon?

I don't kill for sport, but while enjoying the sporting aspects and challenge of hunting I have killed animals and eaten them. Ruffed grouse and walleye are particular favorite wild foods.

I am not a bad person and my mental problems have to do with Seasonal Affective Disorder and periodic Circadian Rhythm issues. There's nothing wrong with my compassion or humane treatment of animals.

Going to the grocery store for meat isn't necessarily immoral, neither is harvesting ones own meat in a sustainable fashion. So if one's particular dichotomy finds it distasteful to participate in the harvesting aspect of protein groceries, go to the store. But don't demonize hunters as those who kill for sport.

Most of us hunters harvest a wild animal with an attitude of understanding we kill as part of the food chain, part of nature. That's one of the privileges of being human: when we hunt for food and even enjoy the preparation and sport aspects of the hunt, we assign our actions a moral value. Coyotes, mountain lions, and even bears and your house cat will play with their food before they finish the kill. They don't assign a moral value of any sort nor have any reverence whatsoever to their role in harvesting food.

And for what it's worth, the snippet argument of kill it or it will be hit by a car is both intellectually unsound and ignorant. Saving cars is not the goal of wildlife management's use of hunting.

Then there's Hunters For The Hungry type things where legally harvested wild game often from overpopulated areas -a renewable resource- gets donated for use in shelters and 'soup' kitchens.

Question: do you think that hamburger you ate is morally superior to a wild harvested cut of venison? That cow it came from would usually be killed in front of its "friends" by a steel rod plunged into its skull.

I just have a lot of trouble with this idea that mankind cannot participate in 'nature' when often what we consider 'natural' a few hundred years ago: wasn't. Mankind has impacted nature so much in history. With today's knowledge mankind can participate in nature and the food chain without harm- that's the benefit of our intellectual power put to work with mankind's ability to cognify moral values.
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