Why does it seem that alot of folks rarely get a service manual or use one??? - Page 7 - JeepForum.com
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post #91 of 103 Old 01-14-2008, 04:21 AM
swedishdwarf
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Every jeeper should definitely have a service manual, if only for wiring diagrams and torque specs. I don't find them very useful for much else, probably because I rarely perform repairs on my jeep. It's pretty much all mods.

We've gone a little off-topic towards search-before-posting, and I think people ask stale questions for a few reasons:
  • They don't realize the depth of knowledge here. They don't see that there's over a thousand searchable threads in the YJ section alone, or they don't notice the faqs or stickies, because they just got here and they haven't had a proper look around yet.
  • Quite often, they're not sure if they are even asking the right question. A lot of noobs have a hard time articulating just what it is they want to know. They might ask a speedometer question when they really want to know about gearing. Many times, they are fully aware they're asking the wrong question but they don't know what the right one is and the discussion has to start somewhere. They know there are experts around who can talk them through it. Same goes for searching; they don't really know what to search for, so they ask.
  • They don't have all day. Maybe they're on a lunch break and they don't really have time to do any research; they just want to ask and see if anyone knows the answer off the top of their head. We all do this. Earlier today I called my roommate to ask where the laundry room key was. I probably could have searched our little apartment instead of bothering him at work, but I didn't have all day. It was worth being a little rude to save a lot of time.
  • Even now, not everyone is computer-friendly. Some people still don't know how to use search engines effectively, or refine their results. Nor do they want to learn about computers right now-- they want to learn about jeeps.
  • That's the purpose of this forum. A person that just bought a jeep, or is thinking about buying their first jeep, comes here and sees this great forum of ours and feels right at home. After they've read a few threads, they have questions about how what they've learned can be applied to their jeep, and they ask those questions. If we lash out at new jeepers for jumping right in to our community, they're not going to feel welcome and that's a shame.

    It's a shame because I like to think we're not like other automotive communities. I like to think there is a camaraderie among jeepers that you just don't see elsewhere. We have a hell of a thing going here. Other organizations seem to be competitive, whereas we're cooperative. We've got a Jeep wave to prove it. Any of you guys ever heard of the Mustang wave, or the Honda handshake? I didn't think so.

Yes, it annoys us when people ask dumb questions. New guys are good at annoying us. It's in their nature. But I think getting mad about it betrays our identity.


You can't teach an old dogma new tricks.
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post #92 of 103 Old 01-14-2008, 06:34 AM
DirtFarmer
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Hey its the new guy again (I hope I don't annoy everyone too much).
I have another 2 cents to offer. It may not explain the laziness to search, but as far as people not using manuals, it could be that there are people like me that have a very basic mechanical ability, but are too dumb to understand the manuals. I found my chiltons repair manual and I now remember why I hardly ever use it. It is full of greasy fingerprints from me frantically leafing through the pages of complicated wiring diagrams trying to find what I need. Without finding/understanding what I need in the manual and without anyone to help me, I usually end up ripping out wiring and re-doing it all my own way. As a result, my Jeep has a lot of wiring that only I understand.
Seriously, does anyone else find the chilton's manual to be about usless for a lot of things or is it just my stupidity.
If it is just my stupidity, go ahead and flame me, I have thick skin.
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post #93 of 103 Old 01-14-2008, 06:42 AM
Gasturbine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Dillard

I understand if folks are asking questions about suspension upgrades or something like that - but rambling about something that can easily be found in a service manual seems borderline if you ask me.

Thoughts?
Wow, did you not beat your dog this morning Joe?


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post #94 of 103 Old 01-14-2008, 09:58 AM
sticksnstonesru
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Damn, this thread just wont die.

Seven frekin' pages of and .

1993 YJ | 2.5L 4 banger | 3.5" Superlift | 1" BL | 4.88's | 33" BFG's |

2007 Toyota Tundra Crew-max | 4x2 | 5.7L | Truxedo Tonneau | 20"'s | Leather | Fully debadged

1999 XJ | stock | 4.0
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post #95 of 103 Old 01-14-2008, 10:15 AM
Big-n-Broke-YJ
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their isnt enough midol or tampax for us all! to walmart i go before they sell out from angry yj'ers!

i kid i kid

'89 Wrangler, 4.0/AW4, 106" Wheelbase, SOA, custom XJ packs, 2" Body. Front High Pinion Dana 44 w/yukon super-joints, chromo inners and outers, and a Lincoln Locker. Rear Dana 60 w/Yukon 1.5" 35 Spline chomo shafts and detroit locker. 5.38 Yukon Gears. Hydro-Assist, 39.5x18" Boggers on 15x12 RockKrawler's w/ 2.75" of backspacing. Comp cut, tube fenders, custom bumpers and rock sliders, fuel cell, CB, Stewart Warner Gauges, SmittyBilt XRC8 Winch, 140 Amp CS-144 Alternator, Electric Fan, and a cooler of beer. 3897 lbs

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post #96 of 103 Old 01-14-2008, 11:11 AM
ErikJordan
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Damn, Joe!
look at what you did.

for those of you that don't have an FSM, they are available on eBay all day long in pdf.
print the pages you need so you can get them all greasy, and throw them away when you are finished.

___________________________________________


What is all of this talk of Savvily designed products?
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post #97 of 103 Old 01-14-2008, 01:16 PM
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I am going to pre-face my statement say nobody is infallible. I know I have asked questioned that in hindsight, I could have found the answer with rather easiler if I fully thought about all my available resources.

My thoughts on not understanding FSM. If this is true, why not address the lack of understanding by quoting the manual? I very, very rarely see that and it makes me believe that someone wanted the quick answer. For example,

“I read though my FSM on how to take apart my transfercase. I am trying to install a SYE and I can get the old sprocket and hub off the mainshaft.(and oh BTW, I learned this term by reading my manual) This is what the manual says “Remove the synchronizer hub snap ring. Discard the ring."

I don’t understand what they mean by a snap ring? How do I get it off? Do you really need to discard it?

Or

“How do you install a SYE?”

Which question do you think will net you a better result and a better response on JF.com?

My thoughts on “not answering questions”: If I feel that I have seen your question a bunch of times when a couple of seconds of search will result in your answer, I don’t waste my time. But I have seen some basic questions go unanswered and the type of response that you get from the OP, is something along the lines of this “what good is a jeep forum if nobody answers my questions.” Then we are back to first base and someone has to tell the person that this topic has been covered a couple of hundred of times and they need to search.

Garage Monkey, Wheeling Junkie


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post #98 of 103 Old 01-14-2008, 02:01 PM
sticksnstonesru
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And the bleeding just w-o-n-t stop....

1993 YJ | 2.5L 4 banger | 3.5" Superlift | 1" BL | 4.88's | 33" BFG's |

2007 Toyota Tundra Crew-max | 4x2 | 5.7L | Truxedo Tonneau | 20"'s | Leather | Fully debadged

1999 XJ | stock | 4.0
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post #99 of 103 Old 01-14-2008, 02:16 PM
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I have a Q why most jeep owners manuals are never in the jeep when you buy it.
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post #100 of 103 Old 01-14-2008, 02:39 PM
swedishdwarf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindBlown
I have a Q why most jeep owners manuals are never in the jeep when you buy it.
It's like that with most cars. I've been buying used cars my whole life and I've never found one with the owners manual in it.

You can't teach an old dogma new tricks.
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post #101 of 103 Old 01-14-2008, 04:18 PM
jbolty
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FWIW. I bought my 1990 Engine, Chassis Body FSM from an ebay seller a few months ago for appx $40.

Just today I won an ebay bid for the Electrical FSM for $15.


They're out there.

.
"The right to be heard does not necessarily include the right to be taken seriously." —Hubert Humphrey
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post #102 of 103 Old 10-04-2009, 10:17 PM
Marcus79
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I know I am a newb here, but I just had to add a funny/somewhat sad story that happened to me the other day.

I know a decent amount about the mechanic side of cars, but at times I am stumped about a certain procedure (especially on jeeps because this is my first one). So I called the local Autozone the other day looking for a fuel pump and when the kid behind the counter asked what vehicle it was on I replied "1990 Wrangler"....to which he came back with "Who makes that?" < yeah...he really said it.

I have only asked one question on this site so far, and the response was amazingly helpful and saved me money...so Thanks
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post #103 of 103 Old 10-04-2009, 10:38 PM
YJake
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Holy thread necro Batman!

I have a Hayne's manual and it has served me well. Was the first thing my dad gave me when I bought the Jeep.

"Here you go son, you're gonna need this. A lot."

/l , [____],
l---L--[]lllllll[]-_
()_) ()_)[email protected]=)_)

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