Who has a scan tool? - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 13 Old 07-15-2019, 07:51 AM Thread Starter
mikewiz38
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Who has a scan tool?

I just picked up the Actron CP9690 scan tool yesterday and wow, there's a boatload of information in there that I had no clue about. Many people say to do the key on/off/on/off/on routine to pull the codes. While that does work, sometimes a bad sensor will show a reading but not register a code. The other thing you can do is test the sensor with a multimeter and that does the same thing, but is time consuming. Using a scan tool, while not having as much data as an OBD2 pcm, has way more than I expected and can quickly diagnose problems. Enough of my sales speech.

Now that I have access to all this data, I was wondering if anybody has a good explanation, or even a start, as to what the numbers should be. My goal is to research and explain this....and I will get this done....but if anybody has a start on this it would be extremely helpful.

If you have something, please let me know. Help or not, I plan on sharing my results here to help others out and give back to the community.


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post #2 of 13 Old 07-15-2019, 08:30 AM
Que89YJ
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Im very familiar with diagnostics. Im not familiar with the scan tool. As far as numbers it depends on what you're reading. Each sensor has a range of operation and the actual readings are going to be vastly different. The scan tool if it works will allow you to look at the range change in operation which can be really useful. Seeing the O2 change through the warm up and looking at the Map sensor voltage change as the vacuum increases etc.

Looking forward to see if it works. Maybe a good thing for a youtube vid to show its operation.

Fault codes:
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post #3 of 13 Old 07-15-2019, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
mikewiz38
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OK, I took some time today to try to figure these things out. The thing I need help with though is the "Adaptive Adjustment Fuel Injectors", "Adaptive Fuel factors", the "Spark Advanced", and what the Fault1, 2, and 3 numbers mean. I think I covered pretty much everything else.

Here's the link to it. If anybody has any suggestions or wants me to make any changes, please let me know.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing


Thank You!!

1994 Wrangler YJ - 4.0L - 5 Speed
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post #4 of 13 Old 07-15-2019, 03:50 PM
Waternut
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A true scantool should be able to display live data but how that data is displayed can vary wildly. While the data may be intuitive to the person who knows what to look for, it may not necessarily display the same kind of data from one tool to the next. For example... I was struggling to understand why my transmission's torque converter wasn't locking up. I was hoping that my scan tool would tell me if the ECU was commanding the solenoid to lockup. However, my vehicle/scan tool wouldn't tell me that because it wasn't that simple. The solenoid was variable so I had to lookup the duty cycle of the solenoid. 0% meant it was off and 100% meant it was on but the ECU could control how much to gently engage the torque converter lock. Then I could confirm if the torque converter was locked by viewing the rpm difference between engine rpm and output shaft rpm. 200 rpm difference means the torque converter is slipping and not locked while 0-2 rpm means that the torque converter is locked.

What sensor are you trying to decipher? More importantly, what condition are you trying to diagnose?

You should be able to drive while displaying or possibly plotting the 3 criteria you're looking at and determine a trend. Spark advance is just your timing which will go up and down depending on engine rpm and load. I suspect your adaptive fuel numbers are going to be related to the engine going into lean mode during cruising or coasting to minimize fuel consumption.


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post #5 of 13 Old 07-15-2019, 05:38 PM
Boojo35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waternut View Post
A true scantool should be able to display live data but how that data is displayed can vary wildly. While the data may be intuitive to the person who knows what to look for, it may not necessarily display the same kind of data from one tool to the next. For example... I was struggling to understand why my transmission's torque converter wasn't locking up. I was hoping that my scan tool would tell me if the ECU was commanding the solenoid to lockup. However, my vehicle/scan tool wouldn't tell me that because it wasn't that simple. The solenoid was variable so I had to lookup the duty cycle of the solenoid. 0% meant it was off and 100% meant it was on but the ECU could control how much to gently engage the torque converter lock. Then I could confirm if the torque converter was locked by viewing the rpm difference between engine rpm and output shaft rpm. 200 rpm difference means the torque converter is slipping and not locked while 0-2 rpm means that the torque converter is locked.

What sensor are you trying to decipher? More importantly, what condition are you trying to diagnose?

You should be able to drive while displaying or possibly plotting the 3 criteria you're looking at and determine a trend. Spark advance is just your timing which will go up and down depending on engine rpm and load. I suspect your adaptive fuel numbers are going to be related to the engine going into lean mode during cruising or coasting to minimize fuel consumption.
Very well stated. I have used many factory scanners throughout my career let alone code readers and aftermarket scanners. The lingo or name of parts varies widely from scanner to scanner making them confusing.

Understanding live data to the fullest is not an overnight thing to learn. A step in the right direction for sure though. Long story. Lots of differences between car makers and scan tool manufacturers.

If you cannot fix it with a hammer then it has to be an electrical problem.
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post #6 of 13 Old 07-15-2019, 05:44 PM
Que89YJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikewiz38 View Post
OK, I took some time today to try to figure these things out. The thing I need help with though is the "Adaptive Adjustment Fuel Injectors", "Adaptive Fuel factors", the "Spark Advanced", and what the Fault1, 2, and 3 numbers mean. I think I covered pretty much everything else.



Here's the link to it. If anybody has any suggestions or wants me to make any changes, please let me know.



https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing





Thank You!!
Adaptive adjustment is a fancy way of saying the injectors are pulsed and the length of the pulse is changed to allow more or less fuel depending on what the o2 reads.

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post #7 of 13 Old 07-15-2019, 05:45 PM
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Faults 1,2, and 3 are probably 12, 33, and 55. They are always there.

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post #8 of 13 Old 07-15-2019, 06:12 PM
Boojo35
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Adaptive type stuff should be close to zero generally speaking. Within 10 percent for sure... Some blocks or learn cells may be out of the limits though... but not an issue. You are treading very complicated waters. There are several blocks or cells throughout an engines operational and load ranges. Then again. not all are represented in percentage. Very different from manufacturer to manufacturer or scanner to scanner. Then it matters if it is traditional or lambda based for instance. It all is kinda the same but has variations. Lots of confusing lingo or nomenclature. OBDII was intended to provide uniformity in the industry in many ways including terminology along with certain tests or compliance's by the vehicle. They need to regroup again. Things are not where they were in 96. People once again call the same thing a zillion different names. In the end it is a money grab by the manufacturers. Make it as confusing as possible.
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If you cannot fix it with a hammer then it has to be an electrical problem.
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post #9 of 13 Old 07-16-2019, 06:14 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boojo35 View Post
Very well stated. I have used many factory scanners throughout my career let alone code readers and aftermarket scanners. The lingo or name of parts varies widely from scanner to scanner making them confusing.

Understanding live data to the fullest is not an overnight thing to learn. A step in the right direction for sure though. Long story. Lots of differences between car makers and scan tool manufacturers.
I do agree that a scan tool is not a magical tool where you just press a few buttons and boom...problem fixed. I'm also not trying to currently fix any problems at this time. My thought process behind this document is to help others try to look for problems and not be intimidated by using a scan tool.

To my knowledge, there's really only a small number of scan tools available to us for use on the YJ. You have the DRB III, which is no longer made, a few old Bosch ones you can find on eBay, and the Actron OBD-I one that you can buy new and they still make. Since there's so few available, this cuts down on the terminology and how-to's. And since we all of YJ's and only care about them, that even cuts the terminology down more.

I've never intended this to be a silver bullet easy answer type thing....I want somebody that's struggling to figure something out to use this, along with other troubleshooting techniques, to glance at it to see if a sensor is reporting in properly as a first step in troubleshooting. I also wanted to show others what is available on the Actron scanner with a YJ because I have yet to see anything that shows here are the PID's available.

Sorry for getting on the soapbox about it. It's just a tool that is available to everybody but yet so many have no idea how to use it. And I'm no expert either....just trying to gather information that may be useful to others.

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post #10 of 13 Old 07-16-2019, 06:16 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Que89YJ View Post
Faults 1,2, and 3 are probably 12, 33, and 55. They are always there.

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That's what I thought, but the reading says '7'. Not sure what that means.

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post #11 of 13 Old 07-16-2019, 06:35 AM
Que89YJ
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Does it read the 12, 33, and 55 anywhere? Like I said they should always be there.

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post #12 of 13 Old 07-16-2019, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikewiz38 View Post
I do agree that a scan tool is not a magical tool where you just press a few buttons and boom...problem fixed. I'm also not trying to currently fix any problems at this time. My thought process behind this document is to help others try to look for problems and not be intimidated by using a scan tool.

To my knowledge, there's really only a small number of scan tools available to us for use on the YJ. You have the DRB III, which is no longer made, a few old Bosch ones you can find on eBay, and the Actron OBD-I one that you can buy new and they still make. Since there's so few available, this cuts down on the terminology and how-to's. And since we all of YJ's and only care about them, that even cuts the terminology down more.

I've never intended this to be a silver bullet easy answer type thing....I want somebody that's struggling to figure something out to use this, along with other troubleshooting techniques, to glance at it to see if a sensor is reporting in properly as a first step in troubleshooting. I also wanted to show others what is available on the Actron scanner with a YJ because I have yet to see anything that shows here are the PID's available.

Sorry for getting on the soapbox about it. It's just a tool that is available to everybody but yet so many have no idea how to use it. And I'm no expert either....just trying to gather information that may be useful to others.
There's also the Snap On MT2500 with the correct cartridge and cable adapter. "the brick" does a boatload of stuff including live data. Bought one on eBay last year and haven't looked back.

~DM

92 YJ, Delilah

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post #13 of 13 Old 07-18-2019, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
mikewiz38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Que89YJ View Post
Does it read the 12, 33, and 55 anywhere? Like I said they should always be there.
While I'm not 100% sure, I think that maybe the '7' means that the car has been started 7 times for the fault that's displayed. In particular, my car is seeing 12, and I probably started the jeep 7 times since putting the battery back on.

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