Weber install .. and now totally lost - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 254 Old 10-28-2018, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
Flurpy
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Weber install .. and now totally lost

Hi,

So I have a 1990. It quit running 72 miles after I bought it. I know nothing about cars, but I have been doing my best to learn.

So far in trying to get her running again I have -

Installed a new battery
Removed and tested and reinstalled the starter
Replaced the spark plugs and wires and distributor cap
Replaced the fuel pump

And I just finished installing the new Weber 38/38 DGES after taking out the old Carter BBD.

Putting it in was no problem. The problem is I can not for the life of me understand how these hoses go, or what can be removed.

I've been watching videos and reading threads for hours but most threads I can't see the pictures anymore. I don't understand the diagrams. I went to the Adventures Under the Hood site and read over everything but I still don't get it.

I haven't done the nutter bypass yet but I will soon as I finish hooking this up (I don't trust myself with wiring so my friend does wiring for me but he lives a few hours a way and can only visit once every few weekends).

I wanted to ditch the original air cleaner and use the one on the Weber but I don't know what to do with the giant hoses left over.

Is there someone with lots of paitience who can help? I feel like Google is driving me in circles and I'm at my wit's end - I've wasted my entire weekend just trying to figure out what these hoses are and I am just more frustrated now then when I started :/

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post #2 of 254 Old 10-28-2018, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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I couldn't figure out how to add pics to the original post. Here is the engine (with no carb) for reference of the many hoses I am starting at.
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Beep beep, let's fix up this Jeep!
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post #3 of 254 Old 10-28-2018, 11:24 PM
Tophog1
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Welcome. Be patient. You have lots ahead!

You said it just quit. A new starter won't really help. Address the problem at it's source.

-

The Weber basically won't work properly without doing a Nutter. When the Nutter is completed, you'll have a big pile of those hoses and wires to make a collage with. And you'll actually be able to see the engine!

-

You should post a location. Maybe someone here lives less than a few hours away and can offer some insight.

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post #4 of 254 Old 10-29-2018, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you -

I did add the location information (Lakeland, Florida). I joined some time ago but have mostly been lurking... been using the forums largely to search for months but... haven't really posted anything yet. I've noticed that a lot of older posts have an issue where I can't see the photos in them - either the thumbnails won't show, or when clicked on they give errors. That's let to a huge source of frustration because I've been trying my best to 'do my research' and make sure I search the forums thoroughly before I bothered to post anything, but when a post refers to a drawing or diagram that isn't there... it's frustrating.

Yeah, it did just quit one day. I wasn't sure what the actual problem is - I've just been trying to solve it piece by piece. My Googling indicated two things - either had to be spark or fuel, so I started with spark - replacing / testing the electrical things that I could; and when that didn't seem to resolve it - I started working on the fuel things.

I haven't tried to turn over the engine since putting in the Weber - I'm just trying to clear out the mess of hoses at the moment. I do want to complete the Nutter; but I wasn't aware it wouldn't work properly without it - so I'll be sure to have that done before I try it.

I did finally find an old schematic of the stock engine, I guess I'm going to go out and try to trace every hose in the thing and sort out what is what - but I'm still not entirely sure of what can stay and what can go.

I guess whatever does not get plugged into the Weber is going to go? I have no idea what to do with the old pulse air system now.
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post #5 of 254 Old 10-29-2018, 11:53 AM
Tophog1
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Google 'YJ Nutter bypass'. You'll find lots of info.

I did the bypass on my '90, but I'm not familiar enough with terminology to try to walk you through it. I'd help if you lived nearby.


i'm running a Rochester 2 barrel on mine. So carb choice is not that crucial, as long as it's not the stepper motor Carter.

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post #6 of 254 Old 10-29-2018, 01:08 PM
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When I did my Weber swap (a long time ago; I've since swapped a FI 4.0 in), it was a 32/36 and I followed the directions here: https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/...ite-up-382309/. While yours is a 38, I think your install will be extremely similar.

The vacuum line routing from that thread is here.

I also remember I did the swap long before I nuttered it. The jeep will run fine; it's just that it will run better after the nutter.

So, my advice would be to get the carb swap completed with the correct vacuum line setup. That should get you up and running. Then worry about doing the nutter bypass.
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post #7 of 254 Old 10-31-2018, 11:41 AM
KARamsay
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Buy a HEI Distributor or a "juicebox" and you eliminate all issues requiring nutter.

If you have a 38/38 it is not going to have enough vacuum fittings to make a stock config workable.
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post #8 of 254 Old 10-31-2018, 11:48 AM
CSP
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There sure is a lot of shotgunning parts at a no-run condition going on here, hoping something will stick.

How about diagnosing why it won't run first?
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post #9 of 254 Old 10-31-2018, 12:44 PM
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I like to use the air filter adapter 99010.600 to adapt the OE air filter to the Weber.
I commend you on getting the Weber 38-DGES, over the 32/36DGEV (too too small).


A couple pictures that may help with your vacuum lines.
I set the timing to 10 BTDC then hook up manifold vacuum to the dist advance. This will increase your idle speed and you can lower this speed with the idle speed screw. Works great.
UTN
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post #10 of 254 Old 10-31-2018, 12:49 PM
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You can take the "giant hose" from the air cleaner totally off since going to Weber. It has a clamp on it at the grill by the headlight and just unclamp and toss it. The hoses you will be able to thin out for sure. My CJ has the Weber like yours and only has two hoses to it. One from the valve cover to the bottom of the air cleaner plate and another from the back of the carb up to the bottom of the air cleaner plate. Then on the CJs, all the extra vacuum and computer control goes away with this set up. That is why they say "may not be 50 state legal" when removing that stuff. You will be able to out a bunch. I ditched the canister as well.

If you think it is a fuel issue and not on the fire side, then do this: Drop that gas tank, clean it out and replace the sock filter which it should have. They get old and crunchy and clog up and fail. Found that to be the case on mine after doing the Weber. But the Weber runs so much better than the factory Carter on mine ever did. Also make sure any of the filters you have throughout are good and the fuel pump is working.
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post #11 of 254 Old 10-31-2018, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KARamsay View Post
Buy a HEI Distributor or a "juicebox" and you eliminate all issues requiring nutter.

If you have a 38/38 it is not going to have enough vacuum fittings to make a stock config workable.
I did the Nutter on my 89 while contemplating whether to replace the stock carb with either the Weber or Motorcraft 2150 that I had picked up really cheap.

Still haven't replaced the Carter, but did eventually get the HEI distributor from CRT. Night and day difference. The drawback of keeping the stock distributor is well documented on here - it has very limited advance because the ECM handled that function electronically. There are some threads/posts or links that show how to modify the stock distributor to have more appropriate advance, but the advance curve still isn't optimized. The HEI I got needed very little dialing in for timing and I don't think I even had to fool with adjusting the vacuum advance. If I did it wasn't much, and it came with the Allen wrench to do that just in case.

I believe, but not sure my Weber is a 38/38 DGES. It has equal bores and the two barrels are mechanically linked instead of vacuum actuated secondary. Is your Weber the mechanically linked type?
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post #12 of 254 Old 11-02-2018, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSP View Post
There sure is a lot of shotgunning parts at a no-run condition going on here, hoping something will stick.

How about diagnosing why it won't run first?



I don't know how; other than what I am doing? I read a bunch of things, then try it and see if it helps. I don't know a better way to figure it out - is there?
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post #13 of 254 Old 11-02-2018, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAZCAT View Post
You can take the "giant hose" from the air cleaner totally off since going to Weber. It has a clamp on it at the grill by the headlight and just unclamp and toss it. The hoses you will be able to thin out for sure. My CJ has the Weber like yours and only has two hoses to it. One from the valve cover to the bottom of the air cleaner plate and another from the back of the carb up to the bottom of the air cleaner plate. Then on the CJs, all the extra vacuum and computer control goes away with this set up. That is why they say "may not be 50 state legal" when removing that stuff. You will be able to out a bunch. I ditched the canister as well.

If you think it is a fuel issue and not on the fire side, then do this: Drop that gas tank, clean it out and replace the sock filter which it should have. They get old and crunchy and clog up and fail. Found that to be the case on mine after doing the Weber. But the Weber runs so much better than the factory Carter on mine ever did. Also make sure any of the filters you have throughout are good and the fuel pump is working.

I am getting fuel at least all the way up to the carburetor - if you unhook it and try to crank it, fuel is definitely coming out of the hose. Jeep was making plenty of sound and acting like it wanted to start, just wouldn't quite do it.



I'm super confused on the air stuff - I keep seeing conflicting things - some saying you can take the air hoses out and some saying to drill holes in the weber for them. ?
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post #14 of 254 Old 11-02-2018, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark1305 View Post
I did the Nutter on my 89 while contemplating whether to replace the stock carb with either the Weber or Motorcraft 2150 that I had picked up really cheap.

Still haven't replaced the Carter, but did eventually get the HEI distributor from CRT. Night and day difference. The drawback of keeping the stock distributor is well documented on here - it has very limited advance because the ECM handled that function electronically. There are some threads/posts or links that show how to modify the stock distributor to have more appropriate advance, but the advance curve still isn't optimized. The HEI I got needed very little dialing in for timing and I don't think I even had to fool with adjusting the vacuum advance. If I did it wasn't much, and it came with the Allen wrench to do that just in case.

I believe, but not sure my Weber is a 38/38 DGES. It has equal bores and the two barrels are mechanically linked instead of vacuum actuated secondary. Is your Weber the mechanically linked type?

I'm.... not following you on the bit about the distributor. I put a new cap on it when I replaced the spark plugs and wires; haven't looked into it itself - so I ... don't know anything about it I guess, I would need to do more digging. Is that a normal thing... to replace or break down?



I..... admittedly can't tell you much about the carb either; but I could point you to the one I bought - which is this: https://www.morris4x4center.com/webe...as-k55138.html


which I bought on recommendation that it would be a good swap for the Jeep I have and supposedly easy enough to install that I could do it :/
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post #15 of 254 Old 11-03-2018, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flurpy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSP View Post
There sure is a no-run condition going on here
I don't know how; other than what I am doing? I read a bunch of things, then try it and see if it helps. I don't know a better way to figure it out - is there?
There is a better way to figure this out. The key statement here is, “I don’t know how” and I won’t make fun of you for that. You are trying when you don’t know and that shows good work ethic character.

As far as hoses/nutter: I’ll let others cover that. Let’s see what isn’t working.

First things first.
A motor only needs at most basic level four things to run: air, fuel, compression, and ignition. So you start there, one thing at a time, adding no new parts so you have no additional variables.

Air and compression are related because a mechanical process lets the air/fuel mixture flow into the motor and then it compresses it. You’ve already established that you have fuel.

When you crank it over, verify air is going into the cylinders and pushing out the exhaust. That doesn’t prove everything is fine, but it may point to a fault.

Put a plug in a plug wire and vise-grip the plug to bare metal like a bolt behind the alternator or something. (Don’t hold it because spark plug voltage can kill you) and have someone crank it while you watch the plug tip for spark. It should be blue but might be yellow or red if weak.

Post back your results and someone can point to a next step. I have my suspicion but I’m not going to guess without info.

The motor is a system of things like a flow chart on paper: air, fuel, compression, ignition are four boxes at the top, and each one branches out/down from there. Only like 28 if/then and A/B diamonds below that when it’s carburetor’d like yours and not full OBD like later models, so it won’t be hard.
You can do this!!

[size=3]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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