Warning: Do not trust compcams products! - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 11 Old 12-09-2019, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
Vernors
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Warning: Do not trust compcams products!

{EDIT: I just received the CompCams springs and there is no way that they would even fit the head, they are much larger than the OEM springs. So, my assumption that a catastrophic failure could have happened using these springs was incorrect. In this specific situation, CompCams would have only wasted my time by delaying the project.}





OK, so all of you on JeepForum have been very helpful and I really do appreciate it. I want to warn you about a company that appears to put out intentionally fraudulent information.

I'm sorry to flag a well-known, and probably well-liked company, but CompCams (www.compcams.com) lists Jeep related product specifically for our vehicles, yet when I call them they say 'No, regardless of what the website says, I can tell you that these products do not work." This is what I was specifically told by them.

To be clear, I am ONLY talking about the Comp Cams 68-232-4 camshaft and their 'recommended components' the 926-12 Valve springs. You can check out their site yourself, call them too and ask.

https://www.compcams.com/xtreme-4x4-...-258-4-0l.html

I only realized this when I was checking other engine builds and saw that people were complaining about this set up. These complaints were years old, so I assumed that things had been fixed.

So I called them, and at least they didn't lie to me on the phone. Still, THEY ARE PUTTING OUT FALSE INFORMATION ON THEIR WEBSITE WHICH COULD HAVE CAUSED MY BUILD TO HAVE A CATASTROPHIC FAILURE.

I do not take this lightly and do not flag companies UNLESS they are doing something shady....and CompCams DEFINITELY qualifies.

SHAME ON YOU COMPCAMS! What other products are you misleading people about?

I hope this posting stays up, but CompCams may be an advertiser here and JeepForum admin may pull it down. I hope they do not, and I'll update this posting if Compcams adjusted the compatibility to exclude some years of the Jeep 4.0 engine.

We should be able to rely on accurate information from manufacturers....

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post #2 of 11 Old 12-09-2019, 12:11 PM
jsawduste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vernors View Post
'No, regardless of what the website says, I can tell you that these products do not work." This is what I was specifically told by them.

To be clear, I am ONLY talking about the Comp Cams 68-232-4 camshaft and their 'recommended components' the 926-12 Valve springs. You can check out their site yourself, call them too and ask.

https://www.compcams.com/xtreme-4x4-...-258-4-0l.html

I only realized this when I was checking other engine builds and saw that people were complaining about this set up. These complaints were years old, so I assumed that things had been fixed.

So I called them, and at least they didn't lie to me on the phone. Still, THEY ARE PUTTING OUT FALSE INFORMATION ON THEIR WEBSITE WHICH COULD HAVE CAUSED MY BUILD TO HAVE A CATASTROPHIC FAILURE.

I do not take this lightly and do not flag companies UNLESS they are doing something shady....and CompCams DEFINITELY qualifies.

SHAME ON YOU COMPCAMS! What other products are you misleading people about?

I hope this posting stays up, but CompCams may be an advertiser here and JeepForum admin may pull it down. I hope they do not, and I'll update this posting if Compcams removes this product from being applicable to the Jeep 4.0 engine.

We should be able to rely on accurate information from manufacturers....

This is exactly what I mentioned in the stroker build thread. The springs are designed for the older RENIX head. Not, as you found out the later model 7120/0630.


There is a Mopar spring option but that also means different locks and retainers.


The Engle springs I used (100lbs on the seat and 245ish @ .500) are discounted.


You could try PAC springs or give Russ a call. He used an LS setup that worked well and was reasonable in price.
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post #3 of 11 Old 12-09-2019, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
Vernors
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Ahhhh, yes thanks Jsawduste. I had assumed that this would have been old news by now and that Comp Cams had done the right thing and updated their site or product line. Clearly they have not, even though this information is, apparently, quite old.

They should not be putting out false information nor expecting that people will call in and double check their site's information. Someone is going to get screwed by trusting their site and products.....
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post #4 of 11 Old 12-09-2019, 05:33 PM
Luuca
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In all fairness, I fail to see a company having a website out of date or with the wrong specific details online that confirms the fact that the parts in question do not work for your application when you call as being dishonest or "shady". Many of these "BIG" companies we perceive of as big are really a bunch of knowledgeable machinists or fabricators who paid someone to put up their website and then never go back to "fix" all the issues on their website... Ask me how I know...

IMO they did the right thing by verbally telling you it would not work. Given that so few people who have the i6 Jeep platform will ever consider trying to build a stroker as a DIY project, it probably is not all that important to them to get the site updated for those items.

Posts like this seem like overkill to me when you could have simply titled it "Stroker Cam and Springs from CompCams" and gone into detail about what the issues are. No one is going to search "Warning: do not trust compcams products" when researching..
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post #5 of 11 Old 12-09-2019, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
Vernors
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Hi Luuca, I know the title and wording is extreme but apparently CompCams, which is a major player in this space, has kept inaccurate information on their site for years.

They clearly know it's inaccurate and all they would need to do is update the application guide. To not do so is irresponsible as many people trust what a manufacturer states, and few think to double check those stated specs. I was lucky because helpful people have pointed out the issue and I found other threads that clearly indicated that the springs would not work.

I could have continued with this build, broke a spring, dropped a valve, scored a cylinder wall and had a really bad, and expensive, day. Just because I bought on a well-known company's stated specs.

The writing was intentionally harsh in the hopes that someone at, or related to, CompCams would see it and accurately update their product listing.

To have dangerously misleading information on a website for what appears to be a decade is unacceptable and shameful. I'm guessing that they have updated their website more than once in the last decade, yet the information is still there.
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post #6 of 11 Old 12-09-2019, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vernors View Post
Hi Luuca, I know the title and wording is extreme but apparently CompCams, which is a major player in this space, has kept inaccurate information on their site for years.

They clearly know it's inaccurate and all they would need to do is update the application guide. To not do so is irresponsible as many people trust what a manufacturer states, and few think to double check those stated specs. I was lucky because helpful people have pointed out the issue and I found other threads that clearly indicated that the springs would not work.
Every aircraft and car maintenance manual in the world had inaccurate information that people know about. Time, management pressure, possibility of failure, money, and the age old saying "squeaky wheel gets the grease" all play into what sounds like an easy fix.

You have to figure out what the problem is, then figure out the solution, run it up the chain to make sure you didn't make another mistake, go find the money to pay the company who made your website for the change, and then finally the website company prioritizes their workload and you're usually not at the top so your quick job takes 6 months to correct and guess through 10-20 different people. The harsh reality is that it's often easier and cheaper to just let it be wrong and fix the problems that arise especially when you sell low quantities like rare parts for outdated engines. Meanwhile a problem with an LS or Chevy 350 cam will be fixed immediately.

It sucks but that's how every business works. You run a little understaffed bc you can't afford to pay extra people to sit around when everything is done.

I guess my final thoughts on this are; custom engine work is not a bolt on and go type of thing. You should be doing your homework long before placing an order and a little for diligence goes a long way on selecting the right components.

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post #7 of 11 Old 12-10-2019, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vernors View Post
Hi Luuca, I know the title and wording is extreme but apparently CompCams, which is a major player in this space, has kept inaccurate information on their site for years.

They clearly know it's inaccurate and all they would need to do is update the application guide. To not do so is irresponsible as many people trust what a manufacturer states, and few think to double check those stated specs. I was lucky because helpful people have pointed out the issue and I found other threads that clearly indicated that the springs would not work.

I could have continued with this build, broke a spring, dropped a valve, scored a cylinder wall and had a really bad, and expensive, day. Just because I bought on a well-known company's stated specs.

The writing was intentionally harsh in the hopes that someone at, or related to, CompCams would see it and accurately update their product listing.

To have dangerously misleading information on a website for what appears to be a decade is unacceptable and shameful. I'm guessing that they have updated their website more than once in the last decade, yet the information is still there.
Just give up, Certain people here dont like when you call a comany especially one that has a aid membership. They get passes on many things. I agree if you are gonna sell on a website it should be updated occasionally. Otherwise you sell people wrong parts.

Not everyone is going to call or know someone that will set them straight. I learned this the hard way. They will make excuses for the big companies.

Hell it would probably cost them $100 to have the website corrected. A halfway intelligent person could edit the site themselves.
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post #8 of 11 Old 12-10-2019, 09:55 AM
Luuca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siva283 View Post
Just give up, Certain people here dont like when you call a comany especially one that has a aid membership. They get passes on many things. I agree if you are gonna sell on a website it should be updated occasionally. Otherwise you sell people wrong parts.

Not everyone is going to call or know someone that will set them straight. I learned this the hard way. They will make excuses for the big companies.

Hell it would probably cost them $100 to have the website corrected. A halfway intelligent person could edit the site themselves.
Last off topic post here.

I do not defend companies blindly. I certainly have never purchased from CompCams nor did I realize they are a forum sponsor or advertiser. I took offense to the blanket statement that you "cannot trust CompCams products" - a blanket, broad-brush negative slam on all their products. The OP is taking all of their products and, based upon an outdated website on ONE product, lumping ALL their products into the UNTRUSTWORTHY zone.

That said, as a person who does, on occasion, do strange and unique crap with a bin of parts lying around, I know it's up to me to ensure that I do my research and have a solid plan in place before starting. To be blunt, I have called and spoken to at least 5 manufacturers of parts for my MJ project. Try explaining, over the phone, my MJ project with a straight face - or better yet - try explaining my MJ project to a manufacturer and have them take you seriously. It looks as if the OP is doing the right things to get the information he needs to complete the project correctly. I just believe that this post is unwarranted in it's blanket statement.

The phrase you are looking for is Caveat Emptor, which is Latin for "Let the buyer beware".

As my company has just hired a website designed and monthly updates for our site, I can tell you that your $100 estimate is pure bullsht. Unless, of course, you are hiring your brother-in-laws 15 year old kid to modify some code.. which is like hiring a day laborer to put a head gasket on your Jeep.

In conclusion, when you endeavor to the extremes of any project, the need to be your own project manager and quality control manager also increases in the extreme. I do not believe that anyone with any experience or common sense who is undertaking a DIY Stroker would simply crack open their wallet and start buying without due diligence. If they do, it's on them.

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post #9 of 11 Old 12-10-2019, 05:15 PM
Boojo35
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Wow!

I have views and opinions that both agree and disagree with many of you. This thread got a little emotional perhaps but yet is a great source of information.

Do your research for sure when you build something outside the box. Know what you are doing when you put it together.

There are many threads about DIY engine builds vs. buying a crate engine. Also many threads that blame a machine shop for crappy work when the poster did the assembly or used his own parts and told the machinist what he wanted............. on and on....... lots of variables can come into play and I have said over and over that the end responsibility is on the assembler or engine builder. Building an engine requires more attention to detail than just torquing parts. It requires checking clearances, geometries, cleanliness, more cleanliness, a lot of visual inspection. when you build a performance engine, a stroker, etc, even more comes into the assemblers responsibility. Valve spring coil bind, spring pressures, rocker geometries, piston to deck heights, cam to crank counter throw clearance, crank to block clearance, valve to piston clearance, etc.

I really see pretty much every bodies stand and opinion so far in this thread. And agree with most everybody on at least something. I will say that regardless of a manufacturers claims or information, especially in a build such as a stroker engine, that when the key is turned, most of the responsibility is on the engine builder. You either know what to do and look for or you are taking a risk. I have a ton of knowledge, experience and tools to build engines. Stuff like this can be more in depth or uncover things that people lacking experience may not look for. When you change a camshaft, you have to look at all the valve train geometry which even includes clearance to the camshaft from the bottom end reciprocating mass. Yes, cam lobes may now interfere with the rods or crankshaft weights.

Kinda related but maybe not. I know that people take a long stand on reman vs. DIY engine builds. Warranties, supposedly state of the art machining equipment, quality of parts, great and knowledgeable assemblers, etc. I have first hand reason to believe that a lot of these state of the art facilities are not what their propaganda says they are. They still are a better choice for a lot of people. Building a stock engine is one thing but still requires more detail on the assembler than most people get. Once you go stroker or performance the attention to detail goes up ten fold IMO.

I will always chose to build my own engines but..... My background and resources allow me the confidence to know that I paid close attention to every detail. Especially when building.

It sounds like comp cams has both correct and incorrect info. Renix head vs. non renix head. It is a crime that they have not updated their website. I agree. But if you are not 99.9% sure of your engine building skill and resources, maybe it is better for you to pay more dollars for a proven stroker crate engine. IMO though, it is on the builder or assembler to KNOW if the machining was done correctly and if there is a parts fitment issue. JS.

A rant for sure but really everybody in this thread seems to have some sort of legitimate concern or counterpoint. It comes down to the builder though. Say it again. When you turn the key, you should be confident if you built it right and paid attention to all that matters. I feel in the end a good builder will recognize a valve spring problem.

If you cannot fix it with a hammer then it has to be an electrical problem.
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post #10 of 11 Old 12-11-2019, 05:54 AM
Siva283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luuca View Post
Last off topic post here.

I do not defend companies blindly. I certainly have never purchased from CompCams nor did I realize they are a forum sponsor or advertiser. I took offense to the blanket statement that you "cannot trust CompCams products" - a blanket, broad-brush negative slam on all their products. The OP is taking all of their products and, based upon an outdated website on ONE product, lumping ALL their products into the UNTRUSTWORTHY zone.

That said, as a person who does, on occasion, do strange and unique crap with a bin of parts lying around, I know it's up to me to ensure that I do my research and have a solid plan in place before starting. To be blunt, I have called and spoken to at least 5 manufacturers of parts for my MJ project. Try explaining, over the phone, my MJ project with a straight face - or better yet - try explaining my MJ project to a manufacturer and have them take you seriously. It looks as if the OP is doing the right things to get the information he needs to complete the project correctly. I just believe that this post is unwarranted in it's blanket statement.

The phrase you are looking for is Caveat Emptor, which is Latin for "Let the buyer beware".

As my company has just hired a website designed and monthly updates for our site, I can tell you that your $100 estimate is pure bullsht. Unless, of course, you are hiring your brother-in-laws 15 year old kid to modify some code.. which is like hiring a day laborer to put a head gasket on your Jeep.

In conclusion, when you endeavor to the extremes of any project, the need to be your own project manager and quality control manager also increases in the extreme. I do not believe that anyone with any experience or common sense who is undertaking a DIY Stroker would simply crack open their wallet and start buying without due diligence. If they do, it's on them.

First I will start off with my $100 assessment. Since this is my particular area of expertise. To have a website built is not cheap. How ever to have a few strings of test updated that takes literally 2 minutes there are plenty of people out there that can do this update to the few lines of text. I know of 10 web designers off the top of my head that would charge about $50 to do this. Damn good ones too. They will line up several jobs like this flat rate it at $50 then knock out 20 of them in an hour. Its easy money. SO no to have an inaccurate website for years is not acceptable.

They could have also had a maintenance plan set up for a nominal fee each month that would include updates as needed.

Your essentially saying you can trust an alcohoic as long as it doesnt concern alcohol. When people find one major incorrect thing you should then be wondering How much other inaccurate information is on the site. Especially when this is your core business.

You can do all the strange crap you want with your MJ. He is not doing strange crap Strokers and cams are common place now. There is a wealth of infomation.

So take me for example. I build networks for a living. Now if I start explaining Network Address Translation wrong something that is used on most every IPv4 network and would be something core to what I do your not gonna trust me to build and secure your network. Same thing here. PERIOD.
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post #11 of 11 Old 12-11-2019, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boojo35 View Post
Wow!

I have views and opinions that both agree and disagree with many of you. This thread got a little emotional perhaps but yet is a great source of information.

Do your research for sure when you build something outside the box. Know what you are doing when you put it together.

There are many threads about DIY engine builds vs. buying a crate engine. Also many threads that blame a machine shop for crappy work when the poster did the assembly or used his own parts and told the machinist what he wanted............. on and on....... lots of variables can come into play and I have said over and over that the end responsibility is on the assembler or engine builder. Building an engine requires more attention to detail than just torquing parts. It requires checking clearances, geometries, cleanliness, more cleanliness, a lot of visual inspection. when you build a performance engine, a stroker, etc, even more comes into the assemblers responsibility. Valve spring coil bind, spring pressures, rocker geometries, piston to deck heights, cam to crank counter throw clearance, crank to block clearance, valve to piston clearance, etc.

I really see pretty much every bodies stand and opinion so far in this thread. And agree with most everybody on at least something. I will say that regardless of a manufacturers claims or information, especially in a build such as a stroker engine, that when the key is turned, most of the responsibility is on the engine builder. You either know what to do and look for or you are taking a risk. I have a ton of knowledge, experience and tools to build engines. Stuff like this can be more in depth or uncover things that people lacking experience may not look for. When you change a camshaft, you have to look at all the valve train geometry which even includes clearance to the camshaft from the bottom end reciprocating mass. Yes, cam lobes may now interfere with the rods or crankshaft weights.

Kinda related but maybe not. I know that people take a long stand on reman vs. DIY engine builds. Warranties, supposedly state of the art machining equipment, quality of parts, great and knowledgeable assemblers, etc. I have first hand reason to believe that a lot of these state of the art facilities are not what their propaganda says they are. They still are a better choice for a lot of people. Building a stock engine is one thing but still requires more detail on the assembler than most people get. Once you go stroker or performance the attention to detail goes up ten fold IMO.

I will always chose to build my own engines but..... My background and resources allow me the confidence to know that I paid close attention to every detail. Especially when building.

It sounds like comp cams has both correct and incorrect info. Renix head vs. non renix head. It is a crime that they have not updated their website. I agree. But if you are not 99.9% sure of your engine building skill and resources, maybe it is better for you to pay more dollars for a proven stroker crate engine. IMO though, it is on the builder or assembler to KNOW if the machining was done correctly and if there is a parts fitment issue. JS.

A rant for sure but really everybody in this thread seems to have some sort of legitimate concern or counterpoint. It comes down to the builder though. Say it again. When you turn the key, you should be confident if you built it right and paid attention to all that matters. I feel in the end a good builder will recognize a valve spring problem.

Very well put. The one thing I would point out though is. Everyone has to start learning somewhere. For example I read about doing diff gears for 5 years and was successful when I regeared my own axles. I learned this by reading reading and more reading then when I thought I was good I read about it 6 more times.

If i was reading bad info that I thought was good because Yukon Gear had it on thier website I would have messed up. Since I am learning I am also learning to filter out the bad. So I have no choice but to assume that Yukon is giving accurate information since thier business is gears and thats thier bread and butter. So if I am reading on Yukons site and I am also reading on XYZ gear I am going to work under the assumption that Yukon is the correct one since they are the go too.

Maybe this should have been in response to @luc ca's post.

I also agree there is alot on the end builder but everyone has to start thier learning somewhere so big companies shouldnt have bad info and if they do they should correct it the moment they find out. They shouldnt let it be for years. They claim to be the greatest so they should at a minimum have accurate info.
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