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post #1 of 22 Old 08-25-2019, 05:26 PM Thread Starter
JoeCoVA
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1988 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Colorado Springs
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Thoughts on Build plans?

Hey Everyone,

I have been a member here for a few years but have done little to my Jeep as it sat in storage for over 15 years. The Jeep was pretty rough when I bought it and in the beginning put some modifications on it but much of those modifications were very uninformed or misinformed modifications. As a young adult at that time, most of my focus was on aesthetics. Now in my more seasoned years and a few other vehicle builds later, I'm more focused on reliability and capability.

Anyways long story short. The Jeep needs a lot of work and we are beginning a complete body off frame restoration and wanted your thoughts on some things.

CHASSIS:
Stock frame is rusted out completely. Purchased a 94 YJ frame in solid condition and is currently getting powdered. I debated painting but went with powder.

ENGINE:
The AMC 258 will be retained and already has a Mopar multi-port fuel injection system and only has 115,000 miles. However it will be completely rebuilt.

TRANSMISSION:
I have the stock BA 10/5 which will be scrapped and replaced with a Muncie SM465. I don't intend to trailer my Jeep so it needs some drive-ability.

TRANSFER CASE:
Stock NP231 will be retained but rebuilt and include a SYE for a double cardan driveshaft.

SUSPENSION:
It currently has a Procomp 4" lift with whatever Procomp shocks. They are terrible so I will switch to a a Custom Deaver Progressive pack front and rear with a 2.5-3" lift and likely King 2.5" shocks. Won't know what size until new leafs are installed and we can take measurements. I think most people use this opportunity to switch to coilovers or struts but I kind of want to retain the original leaf pack idea for the YJ. To me its part of the identity of a YJ, good or bad, call me crazy. I also have front and rear boomerang shackles which I think also have .5" lift.

AXELS:
I toss this one around a lot but also realize i wont be on 40s and wont be doing extreme trails. I will most likely be on 35s with a possible consideration of 37s. So I am thinking of a Ford 8.8 31 spline rear axle with a full Detroit locker. It's not a daily and won't be driven in snow, so I dont see a reason not to keep it locked. Front axle will remain the D30 but will add a locker with a stronger carrier, will either truss or sleeve the axle tubes, weld on some C-gussets and switch to birfield CV axles. I suppose I'll see the most comments about this.

GEARS:
4.88

MISC:
I also have a 9th Degree tummy tucker I bought several years ago so in order to utilize that I have 1" body lift and 1" motor mount lift as well. 50% of the guages work on the YJ so I will likely get that automete full dash replacement with new guages that will actually work with the fuel injection and other addons. For electrical, I'll use an S-Tech switch system to manage lighting and accessories.

OBA:
Still researching this. My Tacoma uses the ARB dual compressor but seeing what other options there are for a YJ, I see a lot of York stuff.

Anyways thats the plan so far, any thoughts, ideas, and feedback is welcome. Thanks for reading.

Joe

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post #2 of 22 Old 08-25-2019, 10:33 PM
jsawduste
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You will like the Deavers. They aren’t cheap but work very well. Been running them for several years now.

For the 8.8 get the crush sleeve eliminator Kit. Used to run a Detroit but now have an E locker. Better tire wear and less pushing offroad. Switch it on as needed
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post #3 of 22 Old 08-25-2019, 10:36 PM
jsawduste
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York based OBA systems suck. The compressor is laid on its side and even with the newer oil control methods you still get plenty of oil in the discharge.

Build or buy a CO2 system. One of the better mods I’ve done.
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post #4 of 22 Old 08-26-2019, 03:25 AM
mudbug85603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeCoVA View Post
Front axle will remain the D30 but will add a locker with a stronger carrier, will either truss or sleeve the axle tubes, weld on some C-gussets and switch to birfield CV axles. I suppose I'll see the most comments about this.
Sleeves and C- gussets on the D30 are a waste of time and money. Do your research
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post #5 of 22 Old 08-26-2019, 05:18 AM
1project2many
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Quote:
York based OBA systems suck. The compressor is laid on its side and even with the newer oil control methods you still get plenty of oil in the discharge.
I would agree. We have three buses in our fleet which were designed with York OBA systems. The compressors were built specifically as air compressors rather than repurposed A/C compressors. Modifications include installing the compressor so the pistons are above the oil sump, using pistons with additional oil control rings, and extra passages to supply oil to the bearings. High oil consumption is a characteristic of this system and compressor failures are expected. We have added air brake style oil separators to the discharge line and have to drain them monthly, and in addition we ensure the tanks are drained daily. We also ensure we check compressor oil level monthly.

I would use a different compressor in my project.
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post #6 of 22 Old 08-26-2019, 09:00 AM
mikewiz38
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I'm interested in the powder coating of the frame. Where can you go to take it done on such a large part? And if you don't mind me asking, how much does it cost? Do they strip it and powder coat it, inside and out?

I stripped the outside of my frame and applied por-15 to it. I then sprayed it on the inside using a custom tube. It came out good but I've heard powder coating is superior.

1994 Wrangler YJ - 4.0L - 5 Speed
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post #7 of 22 Old 08-26-2019, 09:48 AM
StanF
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All sounds good, but I have some axle comments:

I ran 35" tires on a Dana 30\8.8 combo, and I found the brakes to be barely adequate. Your early Dana 30 has interesting knuckles for upgrading the front brakes:
http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/su...eep-tj-brakes/

IIRC, your 1988 Dana 30 may have the smaller u-joints unless you have already upgraded the shafts. If not, upgrade the shafts to chromoly with the larger u joints.

For 35 x 12.50 tires, you'll likely rub on the sway bar or leaf springs because of the narrow Dana 30 axle. Depends on wheel backspacing, use of wheel spacers (yuck), etc. You can also choose to hurt your turning radius if you adjust the knuckle stops.

Detroit locker with a manual transmission will be a little squirrely on the pavement. When you shift, the locker loads and unloads and gives the rear a little kick. It's annoying. I'd recommend a selectable rear or just an LSD, depending on your trail usage.

4.88 gears and 35" tires have been a very good combination for me (4.0\AX15). SM465 - think about AX15 for OD if you use it on the hwy at all. They are readily available. Get one 1994 or newer with an external slave if you go for an AX15


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post #8 of 22 Old 08-26-2019, 09:58 AM
jbolty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsawduste View Post
York based OBA systems suck. The compressor is laid on its side and even with the newer oil control methods you still get plenty of oil in the discharge.

Build or buy a CO2 system. One of the better mods Iíve done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
I would agree. We have three buses in our fleet which were designed with York OBA systems. The compressors were built specifically as air compressors rather than repurposed A/C compressors. Modifications include installing the compressor so the pistons are above the oil sump, using pistons with additional oil control rings, and extra passages to supply oil to the bearings. High oil consumption is a characteristic of this system and compressor failures are expected. We have added air brake style oil separators to the discharge line and have to drain them monthly, and in addition we ensure the tanks are drained daily. We also ensure we check compressor oil level monthly.

I would use a different compressor in my project.
before I did my York I thought, what do large trucks use for air brake compressors and of course the answer is a York sort of design OR a lot have gear drive compressors mounted to the block. I could not find any truck compressors for a reasonable amount of money so just went with a York from a typical a/c system. I switched to using gear oil in it and that cut down on the blow by about 80% and don't over fill it I also have a 2 gallon tank which catches most of the remainder of the oil in the bottom.

.
"The right to be heard does not necessarily include the right to be taken seriously." óHubert Humphrey
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post #9 of 22 Old 08-26-2019, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
JoeCoVA
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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Awesome, thanks for the comments so far everyone.

So I will likely just go with an ARB compressor for OBA since the York idea seems to be a miss. The implementation of the ARB is pretty simple as well and I have been fortunate enough to find them regularly on sale with group buys. I think I paid around $360 for my twin a year ago that sits in my Tacoma.

Good comments on the locker, I'm definitely considering a selectable locker in the rear now. I have electronic lockers on my Tacoma, I'm familiar with Harrop and ARB but have been exploring the idea of an OX locker due to it's simplicity and lack of dependencies. I need to research them more though.

The Dana 30...so Ive debated this one a lot and one of the reasons I thought of keeping it was because I go wheeling with a guy who has a JK on 37s and runs difficult trails on his dirty 30 and I'm not going to be doing anything more difficult that him and the 258 isnt screaming with HP/TQ, BUT I agree with the comments here. I've looked at the Dana 44 options the Dana 489s and even 1 tons.

The front axle will have either 4340 or 300M and birfields regardless so I guess it just comes down to whichever I end up picking.

I assume the consensus would be to simply upgrade to a 44 from a scout or wagoneer?

EDIT: I'm looking more into this http://www.jeeptech.com/convaxle/sjd44yj/index.html

EDIT: Oh the powdercoating of the frame. So I have a heavily modified Tacoma that has a lot of armor powder coated. When I was at their shop they had all kinds of stuff being powdered to include, frames, a full VW bus, a dumptruck trey and some other items, so I knew they could easily do a Jeep frame. I recommend just calling some shops and seeing what they can do. I intended to have the YJ tub powdered but the owner said a lot of older vehicles used a seam sealer that ruins powder when it goes in the oven, he said I should just get it repainted.

They completely blast the frame and then apply powder on all accessible surfaces, Im not sure how well it gets inside the frame however it should be pretty easy. Total cost was $500
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post #10 of 22 Old 08-26-2019, 12:58 PM
NHfireLJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsawduste View Post
York based OBA systems suck. The compressor is laid on its side and even with the newer oil control methods you still get plenty of oil in the discharge.

Build or buy a CO2 system. One of the better mods Iíve done.
Use the OEM A/C compressor... Have do it 3 times on 3 builds and they are reliable, cheap, and put out a lot of air.... . Inline oiler or pack it with grease... At $35 in a junk yard how can you go wrong...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mudbug85603 View Post
Sleeves and C- gussets on the D30 are a waste of time and money. Do your research
BS... Been running 35s on locker D30 and only ever broke an outer U joint... Since running the Revolution 1350 joinyted shafts. no issues... Just need to respect the D30... Cryo treat the ring and pinion for strength.... sleeve and gusset and truss if you want are also fairly cheap and easy...

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post #11 of 22 Old 08-26-2019, 01:11 PM
mudbug85603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHfireLJ View Post
BS... Been running 35s on locker D30 and only ever broke an outer U joint... Since running the Revolution 1350 joinyted shafts. no issues... Just need to respect the D30... Cryo treat the ring and pinion for strength.... sleeve and gusset and truss if you want are also fairly cheap and easy...
Sleeves are ineffective at adding strength to the D30.... NHfireLJ, you can choose to believe what you want... JoeCoVA, as I stated earlier do your research before you waste your money.
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post #12 of 22 Old 08-26-2019, 01:48 PM
StanF
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For OBA, I find the ARB compressor to be a little overpriced, but it is compact and easy to mount. I have a Viair compressor mounted on the driver's fender under my hood with a small 1/4 gallon tank as a reservoir. Use it for the ARB and tires, but honestly, it's most effective from 10 to 20 psi. Over 20 psi, it seems to be very slow, so I usually stop there. But that's enough air to get me to a real compressor. Look at the 450, which is 100% duty cycle:

https://www.amazon.com/Viair-45040-4...omotive&sr=1-5

The CO2 tanks are also pretty useful, if you need that much air. But I never found a good place to mount one (and secure against theft!) in my rig.


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post #13 of 22 Old 08-26-2019, 01:53 PM
mudbug85603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StanF View Post

Detroit locker with a manual transmission will be a little squirrely on the pavement. When you shift, the locker loads and unloads and gives the rear a little kick. It's annoying. I'd recommend a selectable rear or just an LSD, depending on your trail usage.

4.88 gears and 35" tires have been a very good combination for me. SM465 - think about AX15 for OD if you use it on the hwy at all. They are readily available. Get one 1994 or newer with an external slave if you go for an AX15
I've been runnig Detroit's for decades on and off-road with no problems in autos or standards. They do pop occasionally, you learn to ignore that.


An SM 465 is a great trans for rock crawling and very technical trails with its 6.55:1 granny gear compared to the AX15 1st gear at 3.83:1. Geared properly as comparison everything being the same except the trans, the AX15 in 5th would be turning 2591 RPM @ 70mph with 4.88 gears. While the 465 would be at 2755 RPM @ 70 mph with 4.10 gears. I seriously doubt 164 rpm is going to make that big of a difference in mpg's or driveability on-road.


The 465 was designed for up to 1-1/2 ton vehicles and darn near indestructible. Had 465 in a 4x4 Suburban with a 454 putting out over 500HP, running a twin-stick NP205, Detroit's front and rear, and 38" tires in the rocks and deserts of southeast Arizona
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post #14 of 22 Old 08-26-2019, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbolty View Post
before I did my York I thought, what do large trucks use for air brake compressors and of course the answer is a York sort of design OR a lot have gear drive compressors mounted to the block. I could not find any truck compressors for a reasonable amount of money so just went with a York from a typical a/c system. I switched to using gear oil in it and that cut down on the blow by about 80% and don't over fill it I also have a 2 gallon tank which catches most of the remainder of the oil in the bottom.
Two totally different systems, comparing a commercial vehicle air brake system to a converted A/C compressor is ludicrous!
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post #15 of 22 Old 08-26-2019, 02:25 PM
StanF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudbug85603 View Post
snip

the AX15 in 5th would be turning 2591 RPM @ 70mph with 4.88 gears. While the 465 would be at 2755 RPM @ 70 mph with 4.10 gears. I seriously doubt 164 rpm is going to make that big of a difference in mpg's or driveability on-road.

snip
OP said he was going on 4.88 gears, so I don't understand your numbers. OD in an AX15 is 0.79:1.0, so at hwy speeds, any engine would be turning 21% less with the OD AX15 than with the SM465 (with the same axle ratios in both cases).

If the SM465 is running at 3000 rpm, then the AX15 in 5th would be running at 2370 rpm (3000 x 0.79 = 2370).

The 4.0L\4.2L engines don't like to rev very high in my experience, so OD is useful on the highway, but it depends on how the OP is going to use his Jeep.

AX15 gear rations are here:
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge...ns/manual/ax15


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