Thinking of doing 4 link in the rear - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 45 Old 05-20-2019, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
Waternut
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Thinking of doing 4 link in the rear

So I've been researching this idea for over a year but I'm struggling to put my finger on a solid plan. I've been messing with rear leaf spring suspension mods for a while and can't ever seem to get truly happy with them.

I feel like the easy button would be to just buy the full on Ruff Stuff kit and then get ORI's but I don't dislike SOA enough to really drop $3k+ on a rear suspension upgrade. Some coilovers and
homemade links with 3/4" or 7/8" rod ends seem like more than enough for crawling. Pirate has a lot of good custom mod information but reading what those guys have to say, the only option is 2"x.25" DOM tubing and 1-1/4" heims with 3/4" bolts. Except the only rigs I see with that kind of setup are bouncers. In reality, none of the crawlers I've seen seem to go that big. Even saw a guy not too long ago with 42" stickies on D60's but was running what appeared to be 1-1/2" tube with 3/4" heims and 1/2" bolts...could've been 9/16" bolts but they looked small compared to what everyone says "you need".

Just curious what people on here think as this forum seems to be more in touch with reality vs pirate which seems more in line with "bigger is better".



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post #2 of 45 Old 05-20-2019, 09:19 AM
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Tube and Joints: 2"x.25 wall lowers with 2.5" 1.25" shank Johnny joints, 1.5x.25" wall uppers with 1" shank JJs.

Brackets: Artec single triangulated frameside brackets, put them inline with the output of the transfer case. Axle side brackets don't matter much, just get whatever is cheap. 2 upper truss brackets and 2 10* lowers. All of my bolts are 9/16"

IMO ORI's or coilovers would be an awful lot of work to keep SOA up front. You could use some cheap coils like I did or get some 12-14" travel air shocks.


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post #3 of 45 Old 05-20-2019, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info. I'll review your build thread but it's long. I have considered the regular coil springs but I'm not sure it really saves much. I'd still need new shocks, new upper and lower coil buckets, new bumpstops, and maybe find some used dual rate coils that are the right size and spring rate for my application. Ignoring the 4 link setup and outboarded shock mounts that needs to be bought either way, I just feel like once all the stuff is bought just to swap to regular coils, I'm only a few hundred off a 2 corner FOA coilover kit with bumpstops and limiting straps and I can get those valved correctly with the right spring rates. Granted ORI's would be significantly more expensive. Just seems like I could swap to coils for around $1300-$1500 and swap to coilovers for around $1500-$1800 and at that price point, the additional price seems kind of negligible.


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post #4 of 45 Old 05-20-2019, 10:58 AM
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In reality though the costs are not incredibly differnent when getting larger size hardware as opposed to overall project cost. I understand wanting to keep costs down, but I have learned to it the exact way you want it the first time. You will end up redoing it later and in the long run spending more and creating more headaches. I an running JJs . Lowers 1.25" with 9/16" bolt and uppers 1" with 5/8" bolt. Only reason my upper bolt is larger is because the motobilt kit is pre drilled 5/8". If I break or bend a lower bolt ill upgrade to 5/8" at that time. I have only heard horror stories about FOA. Actually I did find a thread I believe on Pirate of the tear down of a brand new FOA coil over. Then a tear down of a fox or king. There were many things found in the FOA tear down that would make you not want to purchase one. I 100% understand why you want to link the rear. I got so tired of my leaf springs unloading when trying to climb causing the back end to bounce. The traction bar kept the spring from wrapping, but also made the antisquat through the roof.

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post #5 of 45 Old 05-20-2019, 11:06 AM
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Dual rate coils aren't going to fit unless you lift it a ton. To keep low I had to use 2" lift coils and french the buckets into the frame about 1/2". That matched my SOA pretty well. Cheap coils, buckets and shocks should be like $300 max. Air shocks can be had for $300 each new, quite a bit cheaper used.

I can't recommend FOA after seeing the issues that @tecksjeep had with them.

Width is also going to be an issue unless you already run crazy backspace on your wheel along with spacers.


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post #6 of 45 Old 05-20-2019, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
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Ok thanks for info on the FOA's. Most of the reviews I had seen that were negative were mostly people who didn't own them or had owned them nearly 10 years ago. I am concerned with air shocks because I do drive on the road when the weather is nice. I don't really have intentions on driving several hours to a trail as I'll trailer for that but a one way trip to work for me is 25-30 miles and I'm concerned that distance on air shocks could cause some issues. If that's not true, I'd certainly consider air shocks.


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post #7 of 45 Old 05-20-2019, 02:53 PM
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I have a SOA YJ and TJ with long arms. Both rigs are locked front/rear with about 6” lift and 35” tires. SOA YJ performs just as well as the TJ on moderately difficult trails like the Rubicon Trail. Don’t see any real advantage to the linked TJ when compared to the SOA YJ. Leaf springs have fewer maintenance items versus the Johnny Joints in my TJ.
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post #8 of 45 Old 05-20-2019, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck Doctor View Post
I have a SOA YJ and TJ with long arms. Both rigs are locked front/rear with about 6” lift and 35” tires. SOA YJ performs just as well as the TJ on moderately difficult trails like the Rubicon Trail. Don’t see any real advantage to the linked TJ when compared to the SOA YJ. Leaf springs have fewer maintenance items versus the Johnny Joints in my TJ.
I'm with you. Offroad, I do just as well and often better than my TJ and JK friends with similar rigs. However, there are a lot of dips and big bumps on the roads around my house and my back doesn't really appreciate it much. I'm sure some nicer seats would help but I feel that's a bandaid and although it would help, it won't completely fix getting thrown out of my seat on big bumps. I'll try to pull more leafs out of my leaf packs before I pull the trigger on a 4 link setup but my expectation aren't very high.


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post #9 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck Doctor View Post
I have a SOA YJ and TJ with long arms. Both rigs are locked front/rear with about 6” lift and 35” tires. SOA YJ performs just as well as the TJ on moderately difficult trails like the Rubicon Trail. Don’t see any real advantage to the linked TJ when compared to the SOA YJ. Leaf springs have fewer maintenance items versus the Johnny Joints in my TJ.
I've replaced plenty of bushings in leaf springs but never done anything more than pump some grease into a Johnny Joint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waternut View Post
I'm with you. Offroad, I do just as well and often better than my TJ and JK friends with similar rigs. However, there are a lot of dips and big bumps on the roads around my house and my back doesn't really appreciate it much. I'm sure some nicer seats would help but I feel that's a bandaid and although it would help, it won't completely fix getting thrown out of my seat on big bumps. I'll try to pull more leafs out of my leaf packs before I pull the trigger on a 4 link setup but my expectation aren't very high.

Offroad is where you are going to notice the biggest difference. Links will essentially eliminate hopping and unloading of they are set up correctly. Just spent 3 days wheeling with an SOA rig in Moab, he really wants link now


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post #10 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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Well I removed another leaf from my front and rear leaf spring packs. The ride is slightly better but still enough to nearly bounce me out of the seat on a big dip or crappy road repair of which that are lots around me The springs are also negative now so that won't work. Trust me I've tried all of the leaf spring tricks...

Ruff stuff is running a memorial day sale so that may be what I need to commit. Still need to figure out springs/coilovers before I do though.


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post #11 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 04:55 PM
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Why not look for a solid TJ frame in your area? Easier to fabricate body mounts than do the math, build, and triangulate a 4-link in your garage.

I mean for the cost of 4-liniking the back, a good used TJ frame swap will give you access to every aftermarket lift kit and suspension accessory for the Jeep TJ without much guesswork PLUS you are getting a 4-link front end too.

I've seen one on CL before all done up.

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post #12 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 05:49 PM
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I've done some custom linked suspensions. Most end up being 3 link front, upper triangulated 4 link rears. Some were D30/D44, D44/D44, HP 9"/Rock Jock 60, RJ 44/RJ 60, RJ 60/RJ 60, HPD60/14B.

All of these Jeeps are ran in JV/Hammers trails regularly. Some run 35's, 37's, 39's, or 40's.

Often, coiled rigs (non-coilover) work very well when we have Wayne do the shock tuning.

I've posted this pic a bunch of times - so you've probably seen it already. This one is a LJ on 4" coils, RJ60, outboarded Fox shocks & we custom made the links & tweeked the brackets to the geometry we wanted.

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post #13 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luuca View Post
Why not look for a solid TJ frame in your area? Easier to fabricate body mounts than do the math, build, and triangulate a 4-link in your garage.

I mean for the cost of 4-liniking the back, a good used TJ frame swap will give you access to every aftermarket lift kit and suspension accessory for the Jeep TJ without much guesswork PLUS you are getting a 4-link front end too.

I've seen one on CL before all done up.
Yeah but linking the rear is way easier than swapping axles, gears, lockers, cage, and an LS swap. I actually had a TJ prior to doing the engine swap and even at that point, I preferred the YJ. I have seen the occasional built jeep that would be comparable in price to what I think I could get for mine but I'd likely end up spending over grand to make it mine and most seem to have welded diff's which means another grand or more in lockers.


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post #14 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 05:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Dillard View Post
I've done some custom linked suspensions. Most end up being 3 link front, upper triangulated 4 link rears. Some were D30/D44, D44/D44, HP 9"/Rock Jock 60, RJ 44/RJ 60, RJ 60/RJ 60, HPD60/14B.

All of these Jeeps are ran in JV/Hammers trails regularly. Some run 35's, 37's, 39's, or 40's.

Often, coiled rigs (non-coilover) work very well when we have Wayne do the shock tuning.

I've posted this pic a bunch of times - so you've probably seen it already. This one is a LJ on 4" coils, RJ60, outboarded Fox shocks & we custom made the links & tweeked the brackets to the geometry we wanted.

Thanks. I'll look a little harder at the price difference between regular coils and coilovers.


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post #15 of 45 Old 05-21-2019, 06:02 PM
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In the rear I'm running a mixture of Artec brackets and some that I made myself to fit my configuration. I'm running 2x.250" DOM lowers and 1.75x.120" uppers all on 2 5/8" Metal cloak duroflex joints and 14" ORIs. I bent my 2x.250 lowers pretty quickly though.

For the front I am running the Barne4wd 3 link kit with 1.25" hiems for my upper and lower joints. For links I'm running 2.x250 sleeved with 1.5x.250 DOM and my uppers are the same as the rear uppers. I am running Radflo 2.5" air shocks and have zero complaints so far.


I would suggest if you go air shocks to stick with a 2.5" and do not cheap out and get 2". They're not rated well for our vehicles and you will be at the max capacity of the shock at all times. I was able to link my front for just a little over $1200 roughly. The Barnes4wd kit was around $600 and so were the pair of Radflo air shocks. I already had the tubing but you could add another $200 and still be under $1500. The rear on the other hand I have over that much just in the ORIs.








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