Stealership - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 28 Old 01-22-2020, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
Boojo35
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Stealership

There ya go. I had to use that term at least one time in my life and mean it.

I have spent the majority of my career working in one of those joints. Now stepped back about 30 years in technology and working on USPS mail trucks. No. Not working directly for the USPS but for a company that is sought out by the USPS because their union shops are inefficient, wont make the difficult repairs, blah blah blah.

With that being said, people who rag on "stealerships" rag on labor costs for one. You have no idea how much training and expense in tools a "competent" stealership tech has invested. Aftermarket shops do not charge far behind the "stealership" labor rate. The difference is that you have an opportunity to get a real expert or as close as somebody to be in a dealer vs. a mediocre at everything tech. And, somebody that has access to the most reliable and up to date scanners, flashes, bulletins, tech news, etc. It is just difficult to hear somebody from another occupation call you a thieve when they themselves will most likely not pony up for an ink pen or paper clip at work and have an easy job with no investment into daily functions of their job and ignoring how much of an investment any mechanic has to put back into his job to be efficient. Start buying your own printers, computer work stations, etc. ANY tool it takes for you to do your job.... In the end. Do you have tens of thousands of dollars in equipment that you paid for personally to do your job? Even going into 6 digits?

More than 90% of the very best techs I have ever known are "stealership" guys. Everybody in my new shop (non-stealership) always needs to borrow a tool from me. It maybe their level of dedication... ????? Non stealership guys for the most part lack the same level of thinking, training, or pure automotive theory. There are certainly some exceptions. JS.

In the end, where you get raped in a "stealership" is parts pricing. It is waaaayyy above list price. It is not the techs. The techs are the ones getting the shaft. Your outrageous pricing is from other sources.

Losing Stealership from my name means I no longer deal with people that can and will not read an owners manual. People that cannot understand how and what an Apple or Android device works let alone how it interfaces to their vehicle.

I am freed.

Back to the cool point..... Most YJ guys DIY.

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If you cannot fix it with a hammer then it has to be an electrical problem.
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post #2 of 28 Old 01-22-2020, 08:17 PM
Arty McGeep
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I worked as a tech at dealerships for years and know exactly what you mean!
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post #3 of 28 Old 01-22-2020, 08:57 PM
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most of the problems I have had and witnessed from dealerships are caused but the service writer often being a know nothing doofus who then tells the tech to swap X, which may not be the problem

when I worked at a dealer a million years ago we brought the car into the garage, tried to find out the problem then the service manager called the customer to get the go ahead.
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post #4 of 28 Old 01-23-2020, 12:16 AM
brianfulcher15
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My experience with the stealerships have made me question if the techs even test to see whats wrong.

Most of them seem to throw every possible part that it could be at it and not do any testing to figure out which one is the issue.


Not to long ago a dealer recommended me spend over 4k to fix fueling issues for a 30 dollar relay. The relay was on the parts list they were advising me replace along with fuel pumps and filters and injectors....

Not my first time with this experience...

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post #5 of 28 Old 01-23-2020, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by brianfulcher15 View Post
My experience with the stealerships have made me question if the techs even test to see whats wrong.

Most of them seem to throw every possible part that it could be at it and not do any testing to figure out which one is the issue.


Not to long ago a dealer recommended me spend over 4k to fix fueling issues for a 30 dollar relay. The relay was on the parts list they were advising me replace along with fuel pumps and filters and injectors....

Not my first time with this experience...

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Unfortunately that can happen anywhere. Some of the younger techs today are truly a different generation and not dedicated to learning the theory of how things work at the very deepest level. The first Automotive class I ever took was in high school. MR. Ford always said,"if you don't know how it works, you are guessing when you fix it". No truer words have ever been spoken.

A lot of the real standout dealer techs are being lost through attrition. Retirement, injuries, etc. There are some up and coming guys that are worthy but admittedly some that have no business being in the business.

I will stand pat though, the highest level of training on a car line and the best resources for information, special tooling, etc. exist in the dealership. The the best chance to get your car fixed correctly. Especially the modern day technology.

If you cannot fix it with a hammer then it has to be an electrical problem.
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post #6 of 28 Old 01-23-2020, 08:20 PM
1project2many
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Congratulations on moving to fleet work. I hope you enjoy it. In the long term I have found it to be the most rewarding part of my automotive career. Having the ability to make or influence decisions about parts choices, service intervals, and recommended repairs is satisfying. Being able to spot a problem in one vehicle and design then apply a fix to others in the fleet confirms that what I do makes a difference. And with the vehicles I work on, with the type of fleet we operate, it is most definitely not boring work.

I do miss having access to OEM training materials and parts information. And I always appreciated that I worked for dealers of car companies that believed their techs were intelligent enough to handle service manuals with real technical information rather than just sets of instructions to complete a repair. And I was lucky enough to do most of my work in "honest" dealerships that believed customers shouldn't be sold unnecessary work and that dishonest techs should get canned. I didn't stick around a bad shop.

This is a very tough time to be a mechanic. Low cost repairs are less common and people around here don't have $$ for the big fixes. Quality techs are hard to find so the good guys are getting someone else's comebacks or second or third attempts at repairs which means the customer doesn't want to pay and someone else has sucked the profit out of the vehicle already. With a nationwide shortage of techs, inexperienced youngsters are able to demand higher starting pay while older techs end up frustrated for having to train and help the youngsters. Meanwhile the myth that all mechanics are crooks is not getting any better.

USPS is planning to End Of Life the Grumman LLV but it looks like it's going to be a few more years.
The new vehicle supplier announcement is promised for this year. In the meantime, make sure to keep all oil leaks in check and be alert for fuel issues. The old GM 2.5 is a bit of a dog but if you keep it sealed up, switch to steel timing gears (I'm betting few have fiber gears any more) and switch to DIS it will be a good engine until the new vehicle appears. Personally I believe the GM 3100 would be a much, much better choice but unless you plan to stuff those in on weekends when no one's looking it's just a pipe dream.
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post #7 of 28 Old 01-24-2020, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
Congratulations on moving to fleet work. I hope you enjoy it. In the long term I have found it to be the most rewarding part of my automotive career. Having the ability to make or influence decisions about parts choices, service intervals, and recommended repairs is satisfying. Being able to spot a problem in one vehicle and design then apply a fix to others in the fleet confirms that what I do makes a difference. And with the vehicles I work on, with the type of fleet we operate, it is most definitely not boring work.

I do miss having access to OEM training materials and parts information. And I always appreciated that I worked for dealers of car companies that believed their techs were intelligent enough to handle service manuals with real technical information rather than just sets of instructions to complete a repair. And I was lucky enough to do most of my work in "honest" dealerships that believed customers shouldn't be sold unnecessary work and that dishonest techs should get canned. I didn't stick around a bad shop.

This is a very tough time to be a mechanic. Low cost repairs are less common and people around here don't have $$ for the big fixes. Quality techs are hard to find so the good guys are getting someone else's comebacks or second or third attempts at repairs which means the customer doesn't want to pay and someone else has sucked the profit out of the vehicle already. With a nationwide shortage of techs, inexperienced youngsters are able to demand higher starting pay while older techs end up frustrated for having to train and help the youngsters. Meanwhile the myth that all mechanics are crooks is not getting any better.

USPS is planning to End Of Life the Grumman LLV but it looks like it's going to be a few more years.
The new vehicle supplier announcement is promised for this year. In the meantime, make sure to keep all oil leaks in check and be alert for fuel issues. The old GM 2.5 is a bit of a dog but if you keep it sealed up, switch to steel timing gears (I'm betting few have fiber gears any more) and switch to DIS it will be a good engine until the new vehicle appears. Personally I believe the GM 3100 would be a much, much better choice but unless you plan to stuff those in on weekends when no one's looking it's just a pipe dream.
OMG! You nailed this close to 100%. So freaking close to my opinion and experience that it scares me to death.

Do I have to leave my wife because you are my true soul mate????

NOPE!!!! She is simply too awesome!!!

Very, very profound post though. You totally won my heart with your knowledge of the LLV, its future, fire hazards, replacements, etc. Dealerships and politics, etc. A very profound and spot on post by you. WOW!

If you cannot fix it with a hammer then it has to be an electrical problem.
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post #8 of 28 Old 01-24-2020, 10:15 PM
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Me name Awesome. Me wonder what LLV is.



Kidding, kidding.

The 4th 5-seater YJ in the world.
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post #9 of 28 Old 01-25-2020, 07:10 AM
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Lunar Landing Vehicle, right?!

[size=“3”]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #10 of 28 Old 01-25-2020, 07:46 PM
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OMG! You nailed this close to 100%. So freaking close to my opinion and experience that it scares me to death.
We are not alone. There are others...

Quote:
Me name Awesome. Me wonder what LLV is.
Not much cool about an LLV but this made me chuckle: http://parksplug.com/2014/03/13/big-...rvice-in-baja/

Quote:
Lunar Landing Vehicle, right?!
I would learn to turn wrenches without my hands for a chance to work on that LLV.
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post #11 of 28 Old 01-25-2020, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
Boojo35
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LS swaps literally have made it into everything.

If you cannot fix it with a hammer then it has to be an electrical problem.
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post #12 of 28 Old 01-31-2020, 06:07 AM
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I have recently discovered a practice that is supposedly widely used in the automobile dealership industry- marking up oem suggested pricing for parts. Most customers are unaware of the price list posted by the manufacturers. Many, many dealerships add on significant amounts, 20-50 percent, to those factory prices and pass it on to unsuspecting customers.

Some of the large corporate-chain Harley dealerships are doing the same thing.

Question this practice before repair jobs or when buying accessories or parts from your local dealer.

This is one reason people are turning to internet purchases.


.
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post #13 of 28 Old 01-31-2020, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by leafman60 View Post
I have recently discovered a practice that is supposedly widely used in the automobile dealership industry- marking up oem suggested pricing for parts. Most customers are unaware of the price list posted by the manufacturers. Many, many dealerships add on significant amounts, 20-50 percent, to those factory prices and pass it on to unsuspecting customers.


.
Prior to my railroad career I worked in dealership parts departments for 15 years......and yes, this is true to some degree. Maybe it has gotten worse over the years, I think we kept our prices 5% over list for the shop on "blue box" (OEM) parts. Now, where it gets sticky these days is common replacement parts, from the likes of ACDelco and Motorcraft. The supply chain over the years has changed to the point where you are literally giving the stuff away, because all the markup has been eaten by the middlemen....usually a large co-op wholesale jobber who your dealer principal FORCES you to buy from because they get a kickback check at the end of the year....NOT the parts department. The internet has also cut the floor out of dealership profits, because you can get consumables off the internet cheaper than they can. Not an easy time now.....and I'm glad I got out years ago.
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post #14 of 28 Old 02-01-2020, 08:08 AM
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I think it’s been going on for years at varying levels. Big markups and “10% off to non-garages.”

The turning point in time was in the nineties. My ex father-in-law was a route salesman for a regional auto parts chain. He could go to napa and buy 25-40-%ish less than he could buy with his employee discount. Of course napa has now “caught up” and everyone is big huge markups now...

He would talk about this now and again but my big lesson was when my exwife broke down and got towed to a garage. Ford Escort. Ignition module. They charged ‘invoice price’ ($160ish) for it. I argued and left without the vehicle.
We hadn’t picked up the car yet but I had the bill and went over to the parts store that carried the brand on the bill. 600 foot walk to the parts store and he said $78ish after a “cash discount.”
I leaned on them a little and mentioned my ex-fil (who was well known and worked for a competitor.) Counter guy said he would give me “professional” price. It was like $36 with tax. Said keep it quiet but it was $28 to garages “I just sold one yesterday” but he couldn’t go that low to a non-volume account. I’m pretty sure who bought it....

So I bought the part, walked back to the garage, paid the labor and towing and handed them the part... told him I was taking the car and didn’t appreciate being gouged. He gave me the keys and with rare exception for nearly 30 years I’ve repaired EVERYTHING myself. Including transmission rebuilds or whatever it took.

It’s ok for people to make money but at over a hundred bucks of “free money” for a 45-minute labor charge? Not ok.

EDIT:
So I was making ?$8.75?/hr back then. Garages were $45-$55/hr iirc
$100 was a big deal. At that time it was a big pricing gouge. Now everyone does it.
There’s a local Vermont garage where I’ve gone for state inspection stickers a few times. They did my daughter’s nissan struts. (Didn’t want to wait for dad)
I saw the boxes; they came in from Rock Auto! Since I’d looked them up there and Amazon, plus two local parts stores, I knew the cost was like $55-$60 each. They charged her $165ish when Napa was $130ish. “List”. List is a lie imho.

I don’t feel bad when parts stores complain about losing online sales.
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[size=“3”]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #15 of 28 Old 02-02-2020, 01:27 PM
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I started out at Canadian tire, i apprenticed there and licensed, was there 7-8 years, mazda for 5 years and Honda now for 4, you can definitely tell the difference between the good guys and the bad. Its pathetic what the newer techs/apprentices attitudes are like.

Just as an example one of them checked out a car for air bag codes. Looked up the modules for the codes and quoted the parts. He told me the codes I told him to look under the seat for all his broken wires he was gonna find. Sure enough it needed a floor harness and not seat rail sensor and opds unit.

As far as parts pricing goes, if it's a big bill are guys will match a a/m rotor or caliper if it means selling the job. Even at mazda we used to do the same with rotors, we'd price match for the a/m premium rotors to help sell jobs.

I've spent weeks at the traing centers to get at the level I'm at now. Its not easy.

its a rusty one

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/90-yj-frame-swap-build-up-1434246/
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