Speedo out, frustration in. - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 11 Old 05-02-2021, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
fishadventure
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Speedometer stopped working
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLtheP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishadventure View Post
Dang . Fiddled with the plug on the tcase. Took all the gauges out. Tightened all the wee screws on back of the speedo (which were loose). Still no speedometer.

It quit two days ago in the rain. Not unusual for this rig. Today it’s dry but it didn’t come back like it always has.

Since it did work for 1-1/2 miles yesterday at this point I think the sender may be the culprit. Yes, it’s an ‘87 but every engine-related item is ‘94 4.0 including the elecquack speedo and dash.

There’s a WHT/red, BK/blu, and ORG (?ORG/blu?) wire at the sender. I’m assuming black is ground, I think the speedo head receives a splice signal from the ORG, so the WHT/red I assume is the signal or ‘base’.
EDIT: BLK/blu is -(neg)
Anyone know off the top of their head what the ‘base’ voltage is supposed to be? I think it doesn’t matter after reading a recent thread but I’d like to know if I measured it and got 7V if that’s normal.

Not so fast, though... it might NOT be the sender: the illumination went out at the same time, about three miles before the CEL came on (VSS error always hits the code when the speedo goes out which indicates it is NOT the cluster but the sender.

I wish I’d thought to put a ring terminal and a length of wire on the “G” spot before in reassembled since THAT s’more indicates a bad ground to that instrument. (I need the stupid thing because I do ~1200 miles a week for work and I need the odo so I don’t miss reimbursement . Err)

I might just buy a sender and throw parts at it cuz this is making me nutso.
Cheap and can’t be worse than a dorman
I have never had speedo problems, but I do know that if you test the sensor wires with key on, you will see 8V power supply, 5V on the speed reading wire, and then a sensor ground on the third wire. I'm not sure what the sensor does with the 5V honestly, somehow it does something to that wire to provide a speed reading back to the PCM and gauge. The 8V is power for the sensor, the 5V is actually coming from the PCM, but runs to the gauge and sensor and is how the speed reading is provided, and the third wire is ground. Oddly enough when I tested for 5V at the gauge, I didn't see anything there.

Hope you figure out your problems, I hate crap like that.
I have the 8V and 5V at the sender plug.
I have 5Von the WHT/org wire’s pin at the gauge.
Despite the pic below !!! I have continuity across the SP contact at the gauge and the pin. Voltage drop seems fine !!!! so I conclude that the sender stopped being waterproof and that is why it goes out in the rain? It always came back before after a dry morning.

Still doesn’t explain the no CEL for speedo unless it isn’t a persistent code and if I doesn’t ‘see it’ o startup it doesn’t throw the code for dropping out.
Nobody local has the stupid sender so I guess I wait for Amazon that ships in five days or a week instead of the one or two days for prime I got for, what? the previous ten years?

I used to get almost everything in a day or two from Amazon but they started faltering a few years ago and now they have the covid excuse. That annoys me. Plus their available items have gone way WAY down in that time frame too. Used to be almost everything I could think of was on Amazon but what? nope, not anymore.
Price wasn’t the only thing that made me an Amazon fan, but now it’s come down to that I guess.

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[size=“3”]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #2 of 11 Old 05-02-2021, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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Put the gauge cluster ribbons back in, checked voltage again for ‘fun’
3V at the pin, 2.1V at the SP so dunno...

I jumpered the speedometer sender wire from the pre-plug harness to the gauge. Got 5V again; still no speedo. It’s got to be the sender.

At my storage unit- no power.

Giandel true-sine 300W inverter I bought to empower my cordless tools (no 12V porter-cable 20v battery chargers available runs the soldering iron just fine.

I’m an idiot though- I should have lugged a back-up -(neg) while I was at it...
(Another recent parallel thread https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/...4431481?page=1)
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[size=“3”]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #3 of 11 Old 05-02-2021, 01:07 PM
BLtheP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishadventure View Post
Speedometer stopped working


I have the 8V and 5V at the sender plug.
I have 5Von the WHT/org wire’s pin at the gauge.
Despite the pic below !!! I have continuity across the SP contact at the gauge and the pin. Voltage drop seems fine !!!! so I conclude that the sender stopped being waterproof and that is why it goes out in the rain? It always came back before after a dry morning.

Still doesn’t explain the no CEL for speedo unless it isn’t a persistent code and if I doesn’t ‘see it’ o startup it doesn’t throw the code for dropping out.
Nobody local has the stupid sender so I guess I wait for Amazon that ships in five days or a week instead of the one or two days for prime I got for, what? the previous ten years?

I used to get almost everything in a day or two from Amazon but they started faltering a few years ago and now they have the covid excuse. That annoys me. Plus their available items have gone way WAY down in that time frame too. Used to be almost everything I could think of was on Amazon but what? nope, not anymore.
Price wasn’t the only thing that made me an Amazon fan, but now it’s come down to that I guess.
Weird. Maybe I tested the wrong pin when I didn’t find any voltage at my gauge plug. I haven’t ever had any issues so whatever I guess.

I’d probably try a new speed sensor and hope for the best….but hard to say what the right move is.
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post #4 of 11 Old 05-02-2021, 01:11 PM
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In case you have to wait for that part to come in. You mentioned that you need miles logged for work. There are a number of phone apps available that can handle that function. They utilize GPS and can prove you actually did the trip.
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post #5 of 11 Old 05-02-2021, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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Thought of that.
I’ve been using “speedometer 55“ for several years. I wasn’t going to have to swallow another bogus ticket and Speedometer 55 has a ‘black box’ feature. Next time I get stopped the phone goes on video record and I have the ‘black box’ data to win in court.

Not all cops are bad but there’s a lot more bad cops than I want to admit. 😞

[size=“3”]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #6 of 11 Old 05-02-2021, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
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In the meantime- I know the schematic shows a splice for the VSS.
Anyone know where jeep located said splice?!

[size=“3”]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #7 of 11 Old 05-02-2021, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishadventure View Post
In the meantime- I know the schematic shows a splice for the VSS.
Anyone know where jeep located said splice?!
Last I looked it was Splice S118 and was close to the OBDI connector by the brake booster. That's what the FSM said anyways, I have never dug into the looms to actually find it.
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post #8 of 11 Old 05-02-2021, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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I did and apparently I’m stupid? I didn’t see it. Unless it changes color to the ECU. Maybe I made an erroneous assumption.

EDIT: or who knows? This is an ‘87 with 94 drivetrain and harness. Who knows if a PO “fixed” something and even I don’t have WHT/org wire on hand. Hmm

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Cranking IS turning over
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post #9 of 11 Old 05-03-2021, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishadventure View Post
I did and apparently I’m stupid? I didn’t see it. Unless it changes color to the ECU. Maybe I made an erroneous assumption.

EDIT: or who knows? This is an ‘87 with 94 drivetrain and harness. Who knows if a PO “fixed” something and even I don’t have WHT/org wire on hand. Hmm
The manual shows it as white/orange for all runs. Did you find that wire coming out of the PCM connector and then follow that wire up? It's gotta be somewhere along that loom.

The way I understand it, the wire will run a few ways...it comes out of the PCM, goes up by OBDI and brake booster, splits somewhere, one of the wires will go down the plastic wirerunner alongside the injectors, around the front of the valve cover, down the passenger side of engine, then down to transmission and transfer case (and fuel pump wiring continues past that point).

the other wire from the split would jump out of the engine harness near the firewall, go into that big Cube connector, and then into the main firewall loom, and pop out of the firewall loom to dive into the cab and runs to the gauge cluster from that point.

I would undo the loom from the firewall cube connector, to the PCM, and look in there. It should be somewhere between those points because theoretically, it has to split before the cube plug.
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post #10 of 11 Old 05-04-2021, 05:42 AM Thread Starter
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I would undo the loom from the firewall cube connector, to the PCM, and look in there. It should be somewhere between those points because theoretically, it has to split before the cube plug.
Thank you. No manual here- I’m 140 miles from my toolbox where I live. So your help is very much appreciated

I’ll look again. I got it from sender through injector rail but didn’t find the splice. I’ll have to strip the whole loom and use a little soap and water to reveal the colors.
I can’t remember more than one WHT/org coming out but I guess it’s gotta be there.

I have an overpriced $42 sender from advance to install today
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[size=“3”]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #11 of 11 Old 05-04-2021, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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And apparently it’s the gauge or stupid crusty ribbon cable. New sensor no changey nuttin.

I just recalled the daddyjeep cluster I bought from him. I should try that next.
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[size=“3”]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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