Radiators and Hoses - Let's Discuss - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 29 Old 03-18-2019, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
bpounds
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Radiators and Hoses - Let's Discuss

My water pump blew out the seal this weekend, so I've got the front end of my 4.2L stripped down and parts on order.

The Jeep had a cheap replacement rad when I bought it. A Vista-Pro. It has worked fine for 6 years, but I just don't like it. Plastic tanks, and the petcock is plastic in plastic. I don't need a new one, but I want a new one.

I just now ordered a CSF all brass radiator from Summit. A little over 2 bills. It was the only all brass rad I could find, other than something custom. It came down to this, or an all aluminum which is available from multiple makers.

Part number is CSF 2576. Nobody lists this rad for a 4.2L, only for a 2.5L. By nobody, I mean Summit, RockAuto, and Amazon. They all say it is for a 2.5L. I ordered it anyway, after confirming as many dimensions as I could. It is a 2 row. The Vista-Pro was a single row (but wide rows) and it always cooled fine. CSF also makes a 3 row, for crazy more money, but they list it for a 4.0L or 2.5L, still not for the 4.2L. If you're interested in looking, the 3 row is CSF 2578.

I guess I will find out whether I made a good choice after I get it. I was pretty excited to find an all brass available.

Meanwhile, I thought the OEM used the same radiator for a 2.5L or a 4.2L, and for the 4.0L also. When I check aftermarket numbers on various sites, some brands use the same, some don't.

One of the things I hated about the Vista-Pro rad is that the radiator hoses I bought don't properly fit the inlet/outlet. I thought that was a problem with the rad design, but checking specs on a lot of brands, I find that the top is 1-1/4" and the bottom is 1-1/2" consistently. It is the radiator hoses that are wrong. And these are otherwise properly molded hoses. These hoses fit the water pump and the t-stat housing correctly, but both are too large to properly fit the rad. I just squeezed them down and double clamped them, and this worked but obviously isn't right. Does this sound familiar to anyone, and what hoses brands have you found that fit properly?

I've just thrown a bunch of stuff out there for discussion.


Bill
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post #2 of 29 Old 03-18-2019, 11:48 AM
04TJ-jeeper
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my 4.2 is still running on the original rad so I can't comment on that yet but do have a question about it. isn't aluminum considered the way to go these days? or is it just because an all brass model is non existent for most manufacturers anymore.
as for the hoses that may be why they're not listed for a 4.2 the inlet/outlet may be different but I can't confirm since I don't have a 4.0 to test on

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post #3 of 29 Old 03-18-2019, 11:57 AM
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Man. You just hit the whole aftermarket parts issue in a nutshell. Some stuff is right. Some is a crapshoot. Some never fits. Could be suspension, cooling, whatever.

Anyways. The factory parts manuals show the same part numbers for the 2.5 or the 4.2L engines. Difference being auto or manual trans.

In 1990 it looks like there is a third part number for heavy duty cooling.

If you cannot fix it with a hammer then it has to be an electrical problem.
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post #4 of 29 Old 03-18-2019, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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...isn't aluminum considered the way to go these days? or is it just because an all brass model is non existent for most manufacturers anymore...
Couple of things in play there I think.

Aluminum does transfer heat better than brass. And it weighs less. Those are the only positives in my opinion. They are cheaper to make.

The downsides are, the plastic caps which can only be crimped on. Eventually they leak. The aluminum cores are more fragile than brass. If you buy an all aluminum unit, with welded caps, those are good if they are welded well, but they often aren't, and it isn't the look I want. More of a racing product IMO.

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post #5 of 29 Old 03-18-2019, 12:59 PM
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Lots of good points made but older brass radiators were more suspect to "fin" rot. On the positive note though. They were more easily repaired.

I know how to remove a leaking row in a brass radiator and solder it shut at both ends. Have no clue on aluminums and if I did it would compromise the gasket an tanks.
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If you cannot fix it with a hammer then it has to be an electrical problem.
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post #6 of 29 Old 03-18-2019, 05:25 PM
bharris68
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I've had an all Aluminum radiator in my 2.5 for several years now, did the same for my wifes TJ as well. Never had an issue and won't ever look back
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post #7 of 29 Old 03-23-2019, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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Got the new CSF radiator in and have to say I am as impressed as it is possible to be, having not installed it yet.

This is the old Vista that is coming out.


Poor fitting outlet in the bottom.


Below size spec inlet on the top.


An embarrassingly small neck on the filler head.


Possibly what I hated the most, a plastic in plastic drain cock.


It was a single row core, but the tubes are longer than you would expect, so I think it is the equivalent of a 2 row.


Here is the new CSF. Please excuse how the flash bounced off the dust. You'll have to take my word for it that the paint job is actually very good.


This is what inlet/outlet stubs should look like! It also came with trans cooler fittings installed, but I will just remove those.




Filler neck and a view of the 2 row core.




I don't like the plastic pet cock, but at least it is threaded into brass, so you won't ever strip the threads out. And the cock has a trickle drain feature too.


They even welded nuts in place to mount the shroud.


The core is the same dimensions in L-W-T, but the old core had 42 tube rows and the new one has 50. I expect cooling capacity is going to be real close to the same.

I have to give props to Summit Racing. I ordered on Monday and it arrived on Tuesday. That was standard free shipping.

It's going to be a couple few weeks before I get this all back up and running, but I am excited to have a period correct radiator back on my YJ.

Oh, almost forgot to add, I checked the date code on the bottom of the old radiator, and it was 2009. So around 10 years of service and I really can't complain about that by todays standards.

Bill
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post #8 of 29 Old 03-23-2019, 01:06 PM
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Good luck on the new Rad.

FYI...After going thru 2 rads and still over heating issues, I ordered the 3 row all metal from radiatorbarn and it solved my over heating issues completely.
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post #9 of 29 Old 03-23-2019, 01:51 PM
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I've always used an OEM rad , (usually from Qtec) crown or similar on my 4.0's and my 4.6 stroker and even with grill guard / off road lights / winch / other coolers in front of the rad, I' never had an overheating issue..

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post #10 of 29 Old 03-23-2019, 02:13 PM
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Nice looking radiator. REAL nice.

I would like to throw this out there. Aluminum/plastic radiators are not all created equal. OEM ones and replacement ones seem to have different material used for the tanks for instance. Some are crap.

If you cannot fix it with a hammer then it has to be an electrical problem.
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post #11 of 29 Old 03-23-2019, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Man. You just hit the whole aftermarket parts issue in a nutshell. Some stuff is right. Some is a crapshoot. Some never fits. Could be suspension, cooling, whatever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boojo35 View Post
I would like to throw this out there. Aluminum/plastic radiators are not all created equal. OEM ones and replacement ones seem to have different material used for the tanks for instance. Some are crap.
Yeah, like you said above, and I totally agreed BTW. I tend to not replace OEM stuff unless it really needs it. Electronic stuff especially, but just about anything with any technology at all, I look at replacement aftermarket stuff with a wary eye. I've made the mistake of changing out some OEM thing just because I was elbow deep in a project, and then lived to regret it. If I was smart or lucky, I kept the old OEM part, either for reference or to swap back to. Other times I've dumped things, and lived to regret not having that part at least for comparing dimensions.

I will hang on to that old radiator for a good while, until I am positive the new one is doing the cooling job. If it doesn't, I might be tempted to get the 3 row brass model, but it costs half again more. Around $350 IIRC. While an aftermarket aluminum/plastic can be had for $67.

Bill
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post #12 of 29 Old 03-23-2019, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Meanwhile I spent the morning opening up the timing cover. Found this, so now I'm back to shopping for more stuff. Timing set, timing cover, and harmonic balancer.








Bill
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post #13 of 29 Old 03-23-2019, 03:20 PM
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This is a great thread. I'm still on a stock radiator, I believe. How many miles on your engine?

1988 Jeep Wrangler Laredo
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post #14 of 29 Old 03-23-2019, 03:21 PM
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$200 isn’t bad - please update as you get it running. RE: cooling efficiency
(I’m assuming you’ll be fine?)

I put a Spectra Premium CU1015 in my cyj 4.0 swap. $80 I think at the time, $88 now. Plastic like yours. So far so good. I have my old brass-tanked oem but two shops say $225+ to ‘rebuild’ it which I held off on. But I still have it...

[size=3]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #15 of 29 Old 03-23-2019, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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This is a great thread. I'm still on a stock radiator, I believe. How many miles on your engine?
132k. I bought it at 112k, so I've put 20k on it in almost 6 years.

I kind of hoped that timing chain had already been done, because there was a nice shiny Felpro plastic gasket on the oil pan and under the timing cover. I guess the PO might have just been fixing oil leaks.

I wasn't a complete idiot though. I had checked the timing chain slack by rotating the crank and trying to check how many degrees of slack it had. And it passed that test, but I obviously did not do that correctly.
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Bill
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1988 Wrangler,4.2L I-6, Howell EFI JP-1,CRT HEI Ign,AX15 ext slave conversion, Zone 2.5" lift + 1/2" booms, BFG 31 x 10.5, Bestop.
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