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post #1 of 37 Old 10-16-2020, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
Siva283
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One Tons

Ok so I think it's time I go to tons. I picked up a set of 37 lx12.5x17 goodyear mt\r tires. They measure about 38 inches though so I don't think the d30 is gonna be happy very long and I think I got the 8.8 at it's limits. I live in the people's republic of MD which is mildly better than CA so I need to keep it street legal so full widths aren't an option. I plan to collect parts over winter to do this come spring. Currently I was thinking super duty axles and wheels with some rediculous back spacing like 7 inches. I am also going SOA at this time. So who has has used these. In a soa set up did you have did clearance issues with the tank? Any years better than others. Any gotchas from those of you all with experience?

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post #2 of 37 Old 10-16-2020, 07:06 PM
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im guessing you just need the tires under fenders which is a pain but just so you know on a jeep the old school dana 44s with 37s will hold up fine with normal driving (not the newer jeep ones)

-that being said all the ford axles should be full width at seems like 69.25" wms up to 1999 and newer should be that at least if not more cause the went to larger backspace rims, and the newer front 60s are all balljoint and single unit bearing hubs which i personally dont like but they work for plenty of people --- also dont forget anything ford newer than 1999 uses the 8.5 X 170 bolt pattern instead of the standard 8.5 X 165
-the sterling 10.25 seems to be 65" wide which is normal being smaller than the front but those diffs are also slightly offcenter which could be a big issue with the tiny driveshafts in a jeep, i have heard of someone getting to like 62" wide or so using 2 short side tubes and shafts and centering the diff
-im not sure how well the unit bearing axles will hold up to that big of a backspace on that big of a tire but wont be terrible, the bigger thing is the hubs front and rear will stick out past the tire by inches. i have some stock tires to tool around town with and my hubs are like mini trailer hitches for finding shins-- if i remember correctly my stock rims are like 7 inch wide and 5 inch backspace or so

- now if you plan to shorten them half of that is null and void and then it comes down to for the front do you want balljoint or kingpins - im guessing you want ford cause you have driver side drop ( some dodges somewhere were driver drop but i forget which anymore) 1991 and newer ford 60s are all balljoint. next is do you want the single unit bearing with the ford only lug pattern -and hub centric wheels- or the old style 2 bearing standard lug pattern. the rear is dictated by the front and or if you want a dana 60 or the sterling axle-- note 60s are probably drum brakes and the sterlings are disc many times
- if you do the later model ford 60 really make sure its a 60 cause they did use alot of dana 50s instead ( being superduty might be only 60s but i have a f250 and am told its rare to have the 60)
-also for ease of braking systems since they are finicky i would try to get the whole brake system out of the truck the axles come from (or buy the system in whole aftermarket parts) and try to adapt it to your jeep brake pedal or even try to make the donor trucks pedal fit the jeep footwell. mixing brake systems is always a nightmare in my experience to get them working half decent, plus ford uses the huge dual piston calipers.

-i cant say much about jeep fitment as the yj i helped build was on 37" tired and dana 44s so bit different for fitting

now i dont want to scare you off of these axles im just giving you the info i have gained over my one ton swaps ( both the monsters we run have one tons swapped atm among a bunch of other swaps) and that you need to pick which axles you want early before you end up buying multiple wheels or other parts which always sucks.

let me know if you have any questions on this stuff or other ones about the axle side of the swap and good luck to ya
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post #3 of 37 Old 10-16-2020, 07:27 PM
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I'm running full widths on 37's with 4.5" BS wheels and the tires are easily covered with some mud flaps. That's all CA requires so if they have to stay totally under the flare, you're gonna need wider flares and yes ridiculous BS wheels.

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post #4 of 37 Old 10-16-2020, 09:19 PM
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I'll be the turd in the punch bowl.... You don't "need" tons to go to 37's nor do you really even "need" tons to go to 40's. There are well documented youtubers out there running D44 fronts with 40" sticky's but they do have RCV's. Heck, I've been running a D44 front with 38.5x14.5x15 tires aired down to 3-4psi with an LS engine for the last year but I'm also running RCV's. For me, a small diff with lighter axles was more desirable than "once and done". I also didn't want crazy wide axles nor did I want to deal with cutting a full width axle down and ordering custom axle shafts.

Just weigh the pros and cons of each before you start buying parts. Weights are grossly different between a D44 and D60. Diff sizes are grossly different too. If you're running 33's now and moving up to a 37, your net differential ground clearance gain between a D30 with 33's and a D60 with 37's is virtually nothing. You gain a lot of other clearances but if you're used to dragging your diff, you will continue to drag your diff with tons and 37's. You can probably get by with 1 ton axle shafts and u joints for a while so the initial investment may be cheaper since you aren't buying chromo's right out of the door but you will eventually break the stock stuff. Once you break the stock stuff, the initial savings comes back to bite you. The D60 axle shafts are nearly twice the price of D44 shafts so if you do need them, it's going to cost you.

Worth checking out... I think he stays fairly impartial. When I watched it, I was convinced to stay with the D44. Meanwhile, my buddy sent me the video saying "this will convince you not to build the D44 and just go to tons". So perspective is probably key.
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post #5 of 37 Old 10-17-2020, 08:19 AM
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I`ll go on record and say that I don't care for the SD axles in any way shape or form.


Unless you retube the short side to correct the pinion in both the X and Y planes. Than set for caster and width. A 78/79 Ford D60 would be the exception but good luck finding one.


A better approach would be to buy a center section with tubes already pressed in. As most folks don't have the ability to retube an existing axle or push tubes into a bare center. This way you can build the axle around your YJ rather than trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole.


Overly large backspacing to "narrow" the axle simply creates a very poor scrub radius. Perfect way to start off on a poor handling rig.


Purchased bare RJ centers. Pushed my own tubes in. Set the pinion angle and placement. Set width, caster, spring pad and shock mount locations. Ended up with 63" WMS with the caster at 8* and the pinion where the DS spins happy.


Rears are easy. Set the pinion, width and mount locations. Moser makes ends that you can use the 8.8 brakes. Or you can choose any number of other aftermarket set ups.
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post #6 of 37 Old 10-17-2020, 08:43 AM
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Love these threads for information. Solid.

I never plan on tons or full widths. But I love seeing it happen

~YJOTM MAY '16, JULY '19~


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post #7 of 37 Old 10-17-2020, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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Rather then quote everyone. So I have 37s already just got them. It was a deal I couldn't pass up. Seems 37 and 44s are 50\50 in opinions of if they can reliably handle them. I really wasn't wanting to get into the build my own axle thing but it's kinda looking like I need to go that route to accomplish my goals. We are allowed 1 inch of tire stick out here in MD. I am tagged historic so the reality is I can do what I want but I will most likely be moving to wv in the near future and track width is an issue there with yearly inspections.

So it seems like I need to decide build a D44 which seems to only get me a bigger ring and pinion. Is the strength difference that big between the d30 and the d44. I have heard the only really difference is the ring and pinion I haven't gotten my eyes on one in a long time.

I figure is I go d44 I should put chromoly shafts in the 8.8 as well. I am not one to bounce alot so I probably could make a d44 work but I am probably going bigger in the future so I am leaning towards jsaeduste's suggestion of building my own from a center section with tubes pressed in as I doubt my 20 ton press will do it. Then I can build it completely the way I want. This probably just got extremely expensive and I am sure I'll change my mind multiple times.
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post #8 of 37 Old 10-17-2020, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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Love these threads for information. Solid.

I never plan on tons or full widths. But I love seeing it happen
I thought that too yet here I am
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post #9 of 37 Old 10-17-2020, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
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Sub'd.

Love these threads for information. Solid.

I never plan on tons or full widths. But I love seeing it happen
I thought that too yet here I am
My vision has been clear for my build.

The soul of this jeep I'm keeping are the narrow tracks and leaf springs. And square headlights of course. Never going above 35s.

I do encourage you to move forward with this... love these axle threads. Learn so much

~YJOTM MAY '16, JULY '19~


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post #10 of 37 Old 10-17-2020, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Siva283 View Post
This probably just got extremely expensive and I am sure I'll change my mind multiple times.
Completely agree with that statement! A rear axle can be cheap. A front axle swap can be a considerable expense. Regardless of whether you go with a D44 or D60, it's very important to have a general plan before you buy anything. That plan should include a rough cost estimate of everything you need done. Maybe you'll find both axle swaps will cost $2000, maybe one will be about $2000 more than the other.

Things you should probably consider:
New axle shafts, stock axle shafts, or fully custom axle shafts for a custom width axle?
What kind of locker do you want?
Will your wheels fit the new bolt pattern? Will they fit over extra large calipers? If not, how much are wheels that fit? If you have to go to a 17" wheel to clear the brake, the sweet deal on tires is irrelevant.
How expensive are new brake calipers if one is trashed?
New gears?
Do you need a rear axle as well to match the front?

While you answer those questions and procure all the parts, I don't think it's unreasonable to continue to wheel with 37's on the D30. Chromoly shafts are highly recommended, carry spares even if it's a stock spare, and BE GENTLE!


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post #11 of 37 Old 10-17-2020, 05:59 PM
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I’d custom-width the axles long before I played wheel games or went big backspace.
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[size=3]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #12 of 37 Old 10-17-2020, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siva283 View Post
This probably just got extremely expensive and I am sure I'll change my mind multiple times.
Completely agree with that statement! A rear axle can be cheap. A front axle swap can be a considerable expense. Regardless of whether you go with a D44 or D60, it's very important to have a general plan before you buy anything. That plan should include a rough cost estimate of everything you need done. Maybe you'll find both axle swaps will cost $2000, maybe one will be about $2000 more than the other.

Things you should probably consider:
New axle shafts, stock axle shafts, or fully custom axle shafts for a custom width axle?
What kind of locker do you want?
Will your wheels fit the new bolt pattern? Will they fit over extra large calipers? If not, how much are wheels that fit? If you have to go to a 17" wheel to clear the brake, the sweet deal on tires is irrelevant.
How expensive are new brake calipers if one is trashed?
New gears?
Do you need a rear axle as well to match the front?

While you answer those questions and procure all the parts, I don't think it's unreasonable to continue to wheel with 37's on the D30. Chromoly shafts are highly recommended, carry spares even if it's a stock spare, and BE GENTLE!
Lucky for my my wheels are 17s.im doing some looking I am thinking custom shafts since I am looking into a custom width. I am sure things will change and change back go go who knows where but that's my current thought process. I am very new to tons so lots of research and trying to find a direction. Definitely appreciate everyone's input especially on what you all have done it are planning. I want to hear from everyone and maybe learn from others mistakes and successes
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post #13 of 37 Old 10-17-2020, 07:13 PM
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Talk to Dan, tell him John with the RJ`s on a YJ sent you. He possesses a wealth of information and may be able to guide you to a satisfactory solution.
https://www.fusion4x4.com/
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post #14 of 37 Old Yesterday, 06:37 AM Thread Starter
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Talk to Dan, tell him John with the RJ`s on a YJ sent you. He possesses a wealth of information and may be able to guide you to a satisfactory solution.
https://www.fusion4x4.com/
Thanks I will look into that
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post #15 of 37 Old Yesterday, 07:26 AM
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So it seems like I need to decide build a D44 which seems to only get me a bigger ring and pinion. Is the strength difference that big between the d30 and the d44. I have heard the only really difference is the ring and pinion I haven't gotten my eyes on one in a long time.
All Dana 44s aren't alike. A Jeep TJ Dana 44 is really just a low pinion Dana 44 center section with Dana 30 outers. Brakes, ball joints, axle u-joints, etc, still have the same weakness as a later Jeep YJ Dana 30.

If you step up to a high pinion Dana 44 out of a ~78-79 Ford F250, you get 1/2" thick tubes, bigger brakes, bigger inner Cs, bigger ball joints (I think), locking hubs, but still the same axle u-joints (which is why RCVs may be a good upgrade for this axle).

I'm in Texas, so I don't have the same tire coverage requirements that you do in Maryland. I'm running a full width 1979 Dana 44 F250 with chromoly shafts and only 35" tires. I feel very confident with the 35" tires on it. I *think* I would run 37" tires on it, but I would definitely be more careful offroad. In the rear, I have a 90s F150 full width 8.8 with chromoly shafts, and I would be fine with 37" tires on it. I only worry about the front axle.

After axles, the biggest problem with 37" tires on a YJ is stretching the wheelbase to make the tires fit well and look good. Have you thought about that or already stretched your rig? In the rear, the gas tank is the biggest obstacle, as well as leaf spring hangers. In the front, there are various issues - steering, spring hangers, etc.

Another issue, is gearing. If you gear now for your 37s, are you going to regear again later for your future larger tires that you mentioned?

I've struggled with a lot of these same issues.


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