HalfBreed YJ.. - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 11 Old 05-26-2021, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
Caish
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HalfBreed YJ..

Never a good thing to be left alone to my own machinations.
Halfbreed is a bastard child, someone else created.
YJ, but lives on an 84 CJ7 chassis.
I got that Reefer out back, using the trailer for storage.
OEM was a 2.5L fuel injected, so the wiring is tough too.
I sorted it enough to be barely street legal.
Anyway, off on a tangent.
That carrier is powered by a Kubota V2203 Diesel engine.
Stock, is a whooping 50HP.
But add a turbo, and gain another 30 or so, and about 150 Ft lbs
torque. from 1500 to 2400 rpm.
With a T-4 and 2.73 gears. Would be geared just about right for a 3k rpm Disel engine even at 70 mph...
Now to get the Carrier started been 10 years, and figure out how to finance the $750 adapter set....

stay tuned....

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post #2 of 11 Old 05-27-2021, 01:46 AM
SevenSlotAddict
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I dunno, it seems like a big project with not much gain in HP. Diesel definitely gives some torque advantages but going with a bigger gas engine will net you better results with the same amount of work. With fuel prices rocketing, staying with gas would save you in the long run. Of course if SHTF you can burn french fry grease, lol.


Good luck!
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post #3 of 11 Old 05-27-2021, 07:44 AM
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I'm not a diesel guy but I can see their worth in the offroad world. That said, I can't even see the worth in using that diesel in a Jeep. The whole point of the diesel is big low end torque but that diesel barely beats what the stock 2.5L makes in terms of torque at low rpm which honestly is pretty pathetic. Sure... with a turbo it would be more power but then again so would everything else. The Kubota makes about 103 ft lbs of torque at 1400 rpms. Meanwhile the 2.5L is around 90-100 ft lbs at the same rpms. Compare that to the VW 1.6L TDI at around 184ft lbs, the Cummins 2.8 at 300 ft lbs, and then for comparison the 5.3L LS engine gets around 150 ft lbs at 1500rpms but jumps up to over 300 ft lbs by 2200rpms. I'll caveat the gas dyno numbers with....no one runs wide open throttle that low on a gas engine so torque numbers are kind of trivial below 2000rpms on a gas engine but I provided them for comparison purposes.

https://www.dieselpartsdirect.com/do...ifications.pdf


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post #4 of 11 Old 05-27-2021, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
Caish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenSlotAddict View Post
I dunno, it seems like a big project with not much gain in HP. Diesel definitely gives some torque advantages but going with a bigger gas engine will net you better results with the same amount of work. With fuel prices rocketing, staying with gas would save you in the long run. Of course if SHTF you can burn french fry grease, lol.


Good luck!
Its a Jeep, not a sports car. rarely seen 75 mph, Freeway.
Its not about HP its about Torque, and MPG.
Simplicity, Longevity. being unique, and usable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waternut View Post
I'm not a diesel guy but I can see their worth in the offroad world. That said, I can't even see the worth in using that diesel in a Jeep. The whole point of the diesel is big low end torque but that diesel barely beats what the stock 2.5L makes in terms of torque at low rpm which honestly is pretty pathetic. Sure... with a turbo it would be more power but then again so would everything else. The Kubota makes about 103 ft lbs of torque at 1400 rpms. Meanwhile the 2.5L is around 90-100 ft lbs at the same rpms. Compare that to the VW 1.6L TDI at around 184ft lbs, the Cummins 2.8 at 300 ft lbs, and then for comparison the 5.3L LS engine gets around 150 ft lbs at 1500rpms but jumps up to over 300 ft lbs by 2200rpms. I'll caveat the gas dyno numbers with....no one runs wide open throttle that low on a gas engine so torque numbers are kind of trivial below 2000rpms on a gas engine but I provided them for comparison purposes.

https://www.dieselpartsdirect.com/do...ifications.pdf
First that torque number is naturally asperated, its 50% more add a turbo.
But then have consider the RPM difference between Peak Torque vs Peak HP.
Try pushing your gas engine at say 75% load at what rpm to achieve it, 4000 rpm? Unless you have a 258 then its 2850, and its only got 110HP anyway. How long is it going to run?
Never seen a gas Jeep get 35 mpg...
I don't wheel with a heavy foot, that breaks things. So actually under 2k is ideal for my style wheeling. I trail ride. Not mud unless its crossing a hole on the trail..
anyway, appreciate the feedback.
Will be an exercise in using things I own already.
Price a VW TDI. Then still need an adapter, just as much fab work.
Dirt Lifestyles TJ is cool with its VW diesel.

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post #5 of 11 Old 05-27-2021, 02:12 PM
bruinjeeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caish View Post
Never a good thing to be left alone to my own machinations. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/JeepForum_2016/smilies/tango_face_devil.png[/IMG]
Halfbreed is a bastard child, someone else created.
YJ, but lives on an 84 CJ7 chassis.
I got that Reefer out back, using the trailer for storage.
OEM was a 2.5L fuel injected, so the wiring is tough too.
I sorted it enough to be barely street legal. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/JeepForum_2016/smilies/tango_face_wink.png[/IMG]
Anyway, off on a tangent.
That carrier is powered by a Kubota V2203 Diesel engine.
Stock, is a whooping 50HP.
But add a turbo, and gain another 30 or so, and about 150 Ft lbs
torque. from 1500 to 2400 rpm.
With a T-4 and 2.73 gears. Would be geared just about right for a 3k rpm Disel engine even at 70 mph...
Now to get the Carrier started been 10 years, and figure out how to finance the $750 adapter set....
[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/JeepForum_2016/smilies/tango_face_grin.png[/IMG][IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/JeepForum_2016/smilies/tango_face_wink.png[/IMG][IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/JeepForum_2016/smilies/tango_face_devil.png[/IMG]
stay tuned....
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/...4432069?page=1



You're welcome

~YJOTM MAY '16, JULY '19~


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post #6 of 11 Old 05-27-2021, 02:31 PM
Waternut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caish View Post

First that torque number is naturally asperated, its 50% more add a turbo.
But then have consider the RPM difference between Peak Torque vs Peak HP.
Try pushing your gas engine at say 75% load at what rpm to achieve it, 4000 rpm? Unless you have a 258 then its 2850, and its only got 110HP anyway. How long is it going to run?
Never seen a gas Jeep get 35 mpg...
I don't wheel with a heavy foot, that breaks things. So actually under 2k is ideal for my style wheeling. I trail ride. Not mud unless its crossing a hole on the trail..
anyway, appreciate the feedback.
Will be an exercise in using things I own already.
Price a VW TDI. Then still need an adapter, just as much fab work.
Dirt Lifestyles TJ is cool with its VW diesel.
I think you missed all of my points. First, getting 50% more torque and power with a turbo is pretty easy no matter what engine you add it to. That's what turbos do... It's not a magical equation that only applies to diesels. If you get a turbo sized appropriately that can push about 7-8psi of boost, you get about 50% more power everywhere provided fuel injectors and engine internals can keep up. It doesn't matter whether it's a 0.5L diesel or an 8.1L gas engine.

All of the numbers I quoted were torque at a very similar rpm as I was trying to compare apples to apples for you. If you want to talk peak torque, that little diesel is blown out of the water by even the low output of the crappy 2.5L Jeep engine. If you add a turbo to the diesel and manage 50% more power you're only beating the 2.5 by about 10-15 ft-lbs of torque that is already in your Jeep.

As for usable rpms, by bringing your axle gears to 2.73, you're going to force the diesel to rev pretty fast to generate the torque you need for offroading. Meanwhile if you change your axle gears to something numerical higher for your 2.5L, you end up with the same net result but the tach shows a different number.

As for mpg...sure 35mpg is cool if you drive your Jeep 20,000-30,000 miles a year but how many years will it take to break even on the $2k-$3k+ price tag to swap that engine into your Jeep, turbocharge it, and change the axle gears/axles? Do you also think you'll get 35mpg pushing the redline of your engine?

I'm not trying to be a jerk... I'm trying to be realistic and realistically, I don't think you'll be happy after spending thousands on a project that will basically put you at almost the same place you're currently at.


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post #7 of 11 Old 05-27-2021, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
Caish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waternut View Post
I think you missed all of my points. First, getting 50% more torque and power with a turbo is pretty easy no matter what engine you add it to. That's what turbos do... It's not a magical equation that only applies to diesels. If you get a turbo sized appropriately that can push about 7-8psi of boost, you get about 50% more power everywhere provided fuel injectors and engine internals can keep up. It doesn't matter whether it's a 0.5L diesel or an 8.1L gas engine.

All of the numbers I quoted were torque at a very similar rpm as I was trying to compare apples to apples for you. If you want to talk peak torque, that little diesel is blown out of the water by even the low output of the crappy 2.5L Jeep engine. If you add a turbo to the diesel and manage 50% more power you're only beating the 2.5 by about 10-15 ft-lbs of torque that is already in your Jeep.

As for usable rpms, by bringing your axle gears to 2.73, you're going to force the diesel to rev pretty fast to generate the torque you need for offroading. Meanwhile if you change your axle gears to something numerical higher for your 2.5L, you end up with the same net result but the tach shows a different number.

As for mpg...sure 35mpg is cool if you drive your Jeep 20,000-30,000 miles a year but how many years will it take to break even on the $2k-$3k+ price tag to swap that engine into your Jeep, turbocharge it, and change the axle gears/axles? Do you also think you'll get 35mpg pushing the redline of your engine?

I'm not trying to be a jerk... I'm trying to be realistic and realistically, I don't think you'll be happy after spending thousands on a project that will basically put you at almost the same place you're currently at.
2.73 and 32" tires will be just about right upto 75 mph, around 2450 rpm.
I think you missed the whole dang point.
Assuming you never drove a Diesel with a narrow powerband,
Actually with the Dana 300 case, low range is adequate.
If I wanted a V8, and Giant HP I'd go buy a Mustang or something, its a jeep, that does overlanding type stuff.
But assuming by your comments, you've never driven a mechanical diesel with a narrow powerband. When they are so close it pulls harder than a gas engine, even a 4.0 doesn't make torque in such a narrow band.
The 258 does. closest thing to compare it to.
Yea I do expect 35 mpg, its not a freeway driver, its a two lane/dirt road/trail bomber. So 55 to 60 mph and 1500 be perfect. I don't have to regear for 273's its already got them.
The joys of having an 84 CJ7 chassis when AMC was trying to get mpg from a Jeep. At one time the body had a 2.5L not whats in it now.
I don't think a Wrangler ever had a T-4 and know for a fact never had a Dana300. Another facet I loved with my twin stick, 2wd low range is nice for riding trails too.
So anyway. Go build a nose bleed fast heep, and wrap it around a tree.
Not on my list of things I want to do, or want.
If need fast drive something else. lol. I'll take my JK or WJ if in a hurry.

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post #8 of 11 Old 05-28-2021, 08:02 AM
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This will be interesting... I'll give you that. I have to agree with some of the other statements that the numbers really don't add up, but this is your project.... your time... your money. You do what you think is best. I have researched crazy, one off, really cool swaps many times in the past. It always comes down to people regretting their decisions to go down this road and in many cases never get it done. I truly hope that you don't end up there. There is good reason that most people do the same swaps... they work. I hear that people don't want to do an LS swap because everyone does that... I don't want to do an 8.8 swap because everyone does it... I don't want to do a Superduty axle swap because everyone does it. Well guess what... Everyone does these things for good reason. They just work. Anyway, good luck with your build, I hope it works out.

87 YJ, 5.7/TH350/NP241/HP Dana44/9", Custom 4 link/ Radius Arms, ADS Nitrogen Shocks, 35" Cooper STT


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post #9 of 11 Old 05-29-2021, 10:56 PM
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@Boojo35

We specialize in bastards here in the YJ technical section. What you need to understand is that "they" will never understand. This section has some of the most skilled and imaginative people on these forums; however, almost everything is looked at through the lens of practicality. Diesel is good. Diesel is cool. All true. Your project is cool. I agree. That said, there will always be those who don't.

Do your thing. Lots and lots of bastards around here. Ask me how I know..
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post #10 of 11 Old 05-30-2021, 06:58 AM
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OP, to restate what has been said 1000 times in this forum....it's your Jeep, build it the way you want.

How many cool things have been done despite those people being told it can't be done or would be a waste of time?

I think your project sounds cool. Will it work? Will it be worth all the time, money and effort you put into it? I don't know.

As far as the naysayers, I say this, take each one if their critiques and evaluate it and make sure there is an answer.
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post #11 of 11 Old 05-30-2021, 10:20 AM
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Seems like a very unique option. I’m a big fan of diesels and I feel it should be an option for Jeeps. Being that this isn’t a common swap will mean you will have to make a lot of your own piping and brackets yourself. I am curious to see it all work. I did see there are plenty of turbo options so that will be good.

What type of harness do you need to use or will you be blending the YJ and Kubota wiring? Since it is a mechanical diesel that make simplify a lot. I saw you mentioned the T4 transmission, do you not want to try to use a T5, AX-15 or even a NV3550? I just feel more gears might help with over landing and longer cruising.

The only concern for me would be 2.73 axle gearing. Can you further explain the reasoning for the high gearing? I would think 3.73s or 4.10s would be great.

I am interested to see this project unfold and see how everything comes together. Good luck with this build!!

YJOTM: Jan 2021


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