Double Cardan Angle no bueno - Page 3 - JeepForum.com
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post #31 of 62 Old 05-01-2021, 07:05 PM
shaggyjim
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I had two of them like that but for $14 I got a digital one with back lighting. Its sooooooooooo nice.

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post #32 of 62 Old 05-01-2021, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by bruinjeeper View Post
Upon re analyzing. It looks as though my OEM rubber mount for the transmission is in great shape with a lot of rubber hanging below its steel encasement.... I suppose I could cut down the rubber... maybe trim .5" off it and it would help alleviate my double cardan angle.

But for curiosities sake, it doesn't help me understand why this angle is so steep
YA that is strange, i just finished setting my rear adams cv shaft and i did the sye as well, are you 100% sure the transmission mount is through the holes on the skid. i did a 4 inch lift on mine and i really didnt have to tweek the pinion much and that is due to how good and square you get your axles and how easy the upper arm bolts both slid right in, but this is kinda makin me wonder how this is such a sharp angle! good luck let me know if you figure it out!.
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post #33 of 62 Old 05-01-2021, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by shaggyjim View Post
I had two of them like that but for $14 I got a digital one with back lighting. Its sooooooooooo nice.
I may have to look into one of those. I've been using my phone for years and although it works, it's not something I can just stick on what I want and leave it. I have to hold it and try to keep everything consistent.

@bruinjeeper Any chance you can get measurements of your driveline? I'm trying to figure out how you've gotten here. I know the AW4 is slightly longer but not that it would cause this with a super short SYE.

1. Actual driveshaft angle - Clinometer is a free app on most phones if you don't have an angle finder
2. Height of center of u-joint at axle
4. Height of center of u-joint at t-case
4. Length between fwd most u-joint at the t-case to the u-joint on the axle side


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post #34 of 62 Old 05-01-2021, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishadventure View Post
^^^^ oh yeah, right. I have the 1” mounts, too.

But his issue is the angle that binds

Is your jeep level at the door sill? Probably

What is the angle of the valve rocker cover? 3* or so from the angle of the door sill I hope.

That’s an interesting thought

Then you can measure the driveshaft slope angle. You can also measure from the flats of the tcase yoke and subtract the driveshaft angle to see the variation.

The door sill to engine rocker cover may tell things, however.
i have the same (different branded) item. I'll grab a bunch of measurements tomorrow at some point.

~YJOTM MAY '16, JULY '19~


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post #35 of 62 Old 05-01-2021, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Waternut View Post
I may have to look into one of those. I've been using my phone for years and although it works, it's not something I can just stick on what I want and leave it. I have to hold it and try to keep everything consistent.

@bruinjeeper Any chance you can get measurements of your driveline? I'm trying to figure out how you've gotten here. I know the AW4 is slightly longer but not that it would cause this with a super short SYE.

1. Actual driveshaft angle - Clinometer is a free app on most phones if you don't have an angle finder
2. Height of center of u-joint at axle
4. Height of center of u-joint at t-case
4. Length between fwd most u-joint at the t-case to the u-joint on the axle side
No AW4. 30RH.

I will do the best i can in terms of grabbing those measurements along with the angles Fish recommended.

I'm as curious as anybody here

~YJOTM MAY '16, JULY '19~


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post #36 of 62 Old 05-01-2021, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipeburn View Post
YA that is strange, are you 100% sure the transmission mount is through the holes on the skid..
yes. 100% man - thanks for chiming in though. They cant be seen from the underside, they are in recesses above the bottom of the plate.
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20210227_152250_1619931750431.jpg  

~YJOTM MAY '16, JULY '19~


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post #37 of 62 Old 05-02-2021, 06:27 AM
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Don’t forget that you don’t merely measure the angle of the driveshaft from the earth- you measure the tcase yoke angle and use the difference between that and the driveshaft centerline angle.

One measurement doesn’t give you the info you need.

I’m totally guessing but based on the mml I suspect you might be 5-6* from vertical at the tcase yoke. So the angle you are after is the difference of 90* minus the shaft centerline with the 5-6* factored in.
I know my XJ shaft bound at first but I can’t recall if that was 16* or 22* but I think I was 22*

Another way without as much math is measure the rocker cover angle, then the driveshaft angle. The difference is the mechanical angle of the driveshaft.

[size=“3”]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #38 of 62 Old 05-02-2021, 07:46 AM Thread Starter
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I will measure and measure and measure and document.

Thing about the MML is its angle certainly got taken a back by the belly up.

But I will measure and post up.

~YJOTM MAY '16, JULY '19~


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post #39 of 62 Old 05-02-2021, 09:43 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waternut View Post

1. Actual driveshaft angle - Clinometer is a free app on most phones if you don't have an angle finder SEE PHOTO

2. Height of center of u-joint at axle = roughly 18.25"

3. Height of center of u-joint at t-case = roughly 26.25"

4. Length between fwd most u-joint at the t-case to the u-joint on the axle side = roughly 22"
Below are angles as discussed.

Photo 1 = valve cover
Photo 2 = door sill
Photo 3 = skid plate belly
Photo 4 = transmission oil pan belly
Photo 5 = driveshaft angle
Photo 6 = double cardan joint angle

All as it sits.

Seems to me I lose angle between the valve cover of the engine and the transmission oil pan. Hm. No space to get the protractor on the output yoke of the transfer case and no time to drop the skid today unfortunately.
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20210502_111226_1619969469826.jpg   20210502_111321_1619969586333.jpg   20210502_111926_1619969780779.jpg   20210502_112014_1619969956581.jpg   20210502_111441_1619970046488.jpg  

20210502_115657_1619971236246.jpg  

~YJOTM MAY '16, JULY '19~


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post #40 of 62 Old 05-02-2021, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
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I did re-measure my pinion angle 4 times.

It seems I am a little low. 5 degrees off even. So off by 3 degreesish

After driving around a bit more and shaking every down... here is a new photo of the side profile of the double cardan joint.

And tolerance taken from the bottom.

The XJ shaft double cardan is simply too "stubby" as I see it. Which is completely understandable as it was produced as a long front shaft. It doesn't look as bad today.

I will be fine for this year in terms of light trails, camping trails, minor obstacles along the way on this type of trail.

I wouldn't be finding any trail too difficult without a proper crew to go out with anyhow. But this is certainly a valuable thread.
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20210502_120920_1619973252252.jpg   20210502_120942_1619973268467.jpg  

~YJOTM MAY '16, JULY '19~


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post #41 of 62 Old 05-02-2021, 11:04 AM
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Ok I happened to be working in the garage when you posted this... I think you're probably ok for even serious wheeling but carry a spare u-joint.

My t-case is tipped down at about 5 degrees so that helps me a little and I measured it on the flat boss on the drivers side since I can't get on the yoke either. However, my driveshaft is shorter at 21.5" and my t-case height is 30.5" and my axle height is 21.75" which puts my vertical separation at 8.75" and my driveshaft angle at about 24 degrees by my phone and my math. Interestingly, your vertical separation between your two yokes is less and your length is longer but your angle is showing more. Yours should be around 22 degrees by my math and not 28 degrees. May just be measuring error from one of us...

Regardless, I did grind a little of my double cardan joint to get an extra 3-4 degrees out of the joint. More importantly, my suspension is able to droop about 8-9" before it binds up my driveshaft which is pretty alarming looking at the driveshaft at that angle. I do have an Adam's driveshaft but I doubt the double cardan joint is anything special. Yes...I need a longer driveshaft as well because I don't have much engagement at full droop.
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20210501_231357.jpg  


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post #42 of 62 Old 05-02-2021, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waternut View Post
Ok I happened to be working in the garage when you posted this... I think you're probably ok for even serious wheeling but carry a spare u-joint.

My t-case is tipped down at about 5 degrees so that helps me a little and I measured it on the flat boss on the drivers side since I can't get on the yoke either. However, my driveshaft is shorter at 21.5" and my t-case height is 30.5" and my axle height is 21.75" which puts my vertical separation at 8.75" and my driveshaft angle at about 24 degrees by my phone and my math. Interestingly, your vertical separation between your two yokes is less and your length is longer but your angle is showing more. Yours should be around 22 degrees by my math and not 28 degrees. May just be measuring error from one of us...

Regardless, I did grind a little of my double cardan joint to get an extra 3-4 degrees out of the joint. More importantly, my suspension is able to droop about 8-9" before it binds up my driveshaft which is pretty alarming looking at the driveshaft at that angle. I do have an Adam's driveshaft but I doubt the double cardan joint is anything special. Yes...I need a longer driveshaft as well because I don't have much engagement at full droop.
It's a blurry photo and she was bobbing around a bit.

The shaft angle is more at 26*

After the angle was put to my pinion... 21* there.

I do have a shim in there to roll the pinion DOWN (not up). I over compensated when I welded my perches on purposely knowing it was always mid stage. I forget the degree shims I have in there... looking at them, it's either a 6* or an 8*.

I'm figuring taking them out now would put me too high and I'd rather be 5 degrees lower at this point.

~YJOTM MAY '16, JULY '19~


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post #43 of 62 Old 05-02-2021, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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Time to relax and enjoy quiet time
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~YJOTM MAY '16, JULY '19~


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post #44 of 62 Old 05-02-2021, 11:35 AM
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Ya, you lost angle with the belly-up skid cuz 3* is normal
So you’re 22-ish is expected compared to apparently both mine and waternut

The trans pan? I wouldn’t measure there. You ‘could’ if it were possible measure the face of the trans or tcase to trans. But you can’t. The only other reliable places are the valve cover and output yoke.

Cut the tranny mount? That would gain a titch.

[size=“3”]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #45 of 62 Old 05-02-2021, 11:38 AM
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The differential yoke should be ~93* from the driveshaft angle with a DC driveshaft btw

[size=“3”]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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