couple waggy, and 8.8 soa parts questions - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 18 Old 01-23-2020, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
brianfulcher15
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couple waggy, and 8.8 soa parts questions

SO im about to start a SOA setup with the wagoneer front axle.

Do i use the YJ spring plate on top, or is there a different plate that i use for the waggy axle?

do the RE 1.5" lift springs come with a center ping/bolt for the spring mounts, or do i reuse the OEM ones?

who makes the best spring perch for the axle?

also who would sell the best value SOA perch/plate/shockmount kit for the rear axle mine is a 8.8 exploder axle. its sua now, but it looks like i'll need shock mounts, spring plates and u bolts becuase My current ones are rusted out to bad to reuse.

is there a flux core wire that will work to weld on the iron diff material, or does anyone know a good 20 amp stick welder that would work?

other than the tie rod, do I need any steering parts from the wagoneer?


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post #2 of 18 Old 01-23-2020, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianfulcher15 View Post
SO im about to start a SOA setup with the wagoneer front axle.

Do i use the YJ spring plate on top, or is there a different plate that i use for the waggy axle?

do the RE 1.5" lift springs come with a center ping/bolt for the spring mounts, or do i reuse the OEM ones?

who makes the best spring perch for the axle?

also who would sell the best value SOA perch/plate/shockmount kit for the rear axle mine is a 8.8 exploder axle. its sua now, but it looks like i'll need shock mounts, spring plates and u bolts becuase My current ones are rusted out to bad to reuse.

is there a flux core wire that will work to weld on the iron diff material, or does anyone know a good 20 amp stick welder that would work?

other than the tie rod, do I need any steering parts from the wagoneer?

Lot of questions and it worries me a little that you're not prepared for SOA... Go to barnes4wd.com for all the spring perches and shock mounts. I think east coast gear sells kits but I just pieced mine together. You may want to verify that those lift springs are really want you want. Lift springs plus SOA is A LOT of lift! I went with stock leaf springs and did a whole lot of work to get the jeep down to a reasonable height including taking leafs out of the stock pack. Granted I did some minor body cutting to clear 35's with my 4.5" lift. Later I went to SOA and 38's and didn't have to do any more cutting.

Although less about steering from the waggy but you know you're going to have to run some form of high steer right? You should always buy new u bolts but admittedly, I reuse mine if I just need to drop the axle real quick. Flux core really isn't the right tool for welding the cast diff to the tubes. Yes it can be done but you need to do more research on that before even considering it. Also, I assume you meant 200 amp stick welder and not 20 amp?


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post #3 of 18 Old 01-24-2020, 05:39 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waternut View Post
Lot of questions and it worries me a little that you're not prepared for SOA... Go to barnes4wd.com for all the spring perches and shock mounts. I think east coast gear sells kits but I just pieced mine together. You may want to verify that those lift springs are really want you want. Lift springs plus SOA is A LOT of lift! I went with stock leaf springs and did a whole lot of work to get the jeep down to a reasonable height including taking leafs out of the stock pack. Granted I did some minor body cutting to clear 35's with my 4.5" lift. Later I went to SOA and 38's and didn't have to do any more cutting.



Although less about steering from the waggy but you know you're going to have to run some form of high steer right? You should always buy new u bolts but admittedly, I reuse mine if I just need to drop the axle real quick. Flux core really isn't the right tool for welding the cast diff to the tubes. Yes it can be done but you need to do more research on that before even considering it. Also, I assume you meant 200 amp stick welder and not 20 amp?
Looking for a stick welter that can work on a 20 amp circuit. I have no circuits that provide more than 20 amps.

I actually have a stick welder but no where to plug it in.

I have done the research i would go with stock height springs but im wanting some military wrapped springs. The only places i know that makes them stock height charge 400-600 more than what i can get the re ones for.

I know i need a highsteer kit. Im in a tossup on what im doing for that now. I may get flat top chevy parts, or i read that i can use a 70s passenger waggy knuckle if i stay with the 6x5.5



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post #4 of 18 Old 01-24-2020, 05:42 AM Thread Starter
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Also was really looking for info on perch and plates. I have not seen anyone say if you reuse your oem spring plates with the wagoneer axle. I would have though a new one would be needed if the axle is larger in diameter than the dana 30

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post #5 of 18 Old 01-24-2020, 06:48 AM
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Do you know the diameters?!

All this info is here on JF within the four or five major SOA threads. I think there’s one in the FAQ iirc

Do some reading so your questions are on execution, not making other people dig up
the info.

Don’t mean to be rude- sorry if it sounds crass and rude. It just sounds like you haven’t read the threads. It also sounds like SOA isn’t your goal, just 37s.

I’m also worried about things like welding your perches. SOA really needs good quality welds and it sounds like you’re trying to force inadequate facilities (20A 120V circuits) to somehow run a welder that needs 220V and might not fully run on 30A/30A circuits.

Go to the FAQs, do some reading. When I thought I was doing SOA everything was there, even some references to frenching the frame like bigredjeep did. You need to get knowledge and make notes to the point where your questions are on execution not design.
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[size=“3”]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #6 of 18 Old 01-24-2020, 06:54 AM
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Just some advise..... You have 3 threads now about 37's, waggy questions and SOA.... Lay out all your plans in a single thread (build thread) otherwise you're going to get bombarded with info in 3 different spots.... as well as repetitive info as there will be overlap. Single questions can be asked in your thread and people will answer..

If you post constantly with HEY i got question, HEY how about this, HEY....... We are here to help, but as mentioned , some homework will get you a long way... SOA info is plentiful.... Read some SOA threads.... and the FAQs...

good luck..
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post #7 of 18 Old 01-24-2020, 07:11 AM
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^^^exactly

Quote:
SO im about to start a SOA setup with the wagoneer front axle
...cuz “about to start” means the axle is in your garage right now. Serviced, cleaned, painted. A plan for the driveshafts. Shocks selected. Brake lines in hand.

[size=“3”]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #8 of 18 Old 01-24-2020, 07:47 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishadventure View Post
^^^exactly



...cuz “about to start” means the axle is in your garage right now. Serviced, cleaned, painted. A plan for the driveshafts. Shocks selected. Brake lines in hand.
So im picking up the axle today and am ready to order the leaf springs and spring perches.

When i looked for the 8.8 parts i was shocked seeing m.o.r.e listing 180-200 for the ubolts shock mounts and perches.

And then nothing i read so far has said anything about if youre using oem ubolts and spingplates in the front.



I only made multiple threads because i was asking different questions. In the threads. The other threads were specific to different things

Ive also been ar work most of the time that i post, hoping that you guys would know an answer, and save me hours of researching once i get off work. The wife is complaining that im spending to much time that im not working on researching stuff for the jeep and mu other cars...

That being said i guess ill start a build thread.


I fully plan to start working on the axle tonight and weld on perches before monday. Then get the re springs in next week and have it sitting on the new springs next weekend.

I did see that for what a 120 v stick welder cost i could just put in a circuit for my welder that i already have for alot less, and its going to work much better than the 120v one.

Heres some pics of my stuff ive built so far, and my jeep. this was at the old house though where i had a good shop. With power available.

This is my setup for taking the jeep to the trails.
Built all of it myself.


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post #9 of 18 Old 01-24-2020, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianfulcher15 View Post

When i looked for the 8.8 parts i was shocked seeing m.o.r.e listing 180-200 for the ubolts shock mounts and perches.

And then nothing i read so far has said anything about if youre using oem ubolts and spingplates in the front.
Barnes4wd for parts...

You aren't finding that answer directly because the axle tubes are different diameters thereby requiring you to use bigger u bolts and spring plates when upgrading to a D44.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianfulcher15 View Post
I did see that for what a 120 v stick welder cost i could just put in a circuit for my welder that i already have for alot less, and its going to work much better than the 120v one.
Good plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianfulcher15 View Post
I fully plan to start working on the axle tonight and weld on perches before monday. Then get the re springs in next week and have it sitting on the new springs next weekend.
Bad plan... You need the springs in place so you know where to weld your perches on to get the correct caster, rear driveshaft angle, etc.


I hate to keep beating a dead horse but you need to do more research. SOA has been done a million times on CJ's and YJ's but that doesn't make it simple. It's straight forward and not really a crazy custom job but you have to do it right and doing it right involves a lot of research to understand how best to tackle everything and what needs to be purchased.
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post #10 of 18 Old 01-24-2020, 08:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waternut View Post
Barnes4wd for parts...



You aren't finding that answer directly because the axle tubes are different diameters thereby requiring you to use bigger u bolts and spring plates when upgrading to a D44.







Good plan







Bad plan... You need the springs in place so you know where to weld your perches on to get the correct caster, rear driveshaft angle, etc.





I hate to keep beating a dead horse but you need to do more research. SOA has been done a million times on CJ's and YJ's but that doesn't make it simple. It's straight forward and not really a crazy custom job but you have to do it right and doing it right involves a lot of research to understand how best to tackle everything and what needs to be purchased.
Really was only planing to do the front, without the springs. I read on here that you match sua mounts angle unless you want to rotate the knuckles.

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post #11 of 18 Old 01-24-2020, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by brianfulcher15 View Post
Ive also been ar work most of the time that i post, hoping that you guys would know an answer, and save me hours of researching once i get off work.
Yeah, ok. Make check payable to.............paulhead
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/...tions-4069386/
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/...18/index2.html
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/...l#post15588242
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/...54/index3.html
https://therangerstation.com/tech_library/Dana44.shtml
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/...rings-4302937/
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/...25/index2.html
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/...25/index2.html
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/...l#post40502353
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post #12 of 18 Old 01-24-2020, 10:19 AM
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Ill throw my hat in the ring. I too share the same mindset as several others.


RESEARCH and more RESEARCH before you do anything. I've attempted to quantify several angles of attack with factual, sound application but I get the feeling that the information is being ignored or perhaps not understood. The success or lack of is dependent on following sound build practices for suspension, steering and braking.


Unless you already have the Explorer axle I wouldn't start with that. Source an wider 8.8 from a F150 or similar.


Barnes, Ruffstuff (my favorite) etc sell axle swap kits. Yes you need new plates and mounts as well as U bolts. All those parts come in a simple swap kit


Chassis Unlimited is having a clearance sale on D44 steering parts. The Wagoneer steering parts will not likely be of much value.


YMMV and I'm not trying to be an *** but the rule is for don't lift your tow rig. Nice looking truck but I wouldn't want to tow with it


Good luck but lets consolidate the thought process.


Tonight lets get the axle stripped down and the knuckles off. You do have the upper ball joint pre load nut pronged socket ?


Have you understood the Reid knuckle is taller at the HS mount ? Which might play a factor in the DL clearing the spring ? Plus it has an addition hold down to secure the arm ? Did you contact them to see if they do anything with the cast arms for the TR ? If your going to run dual HS arms you'll be sorry when you find out the straight line stability sucks. Not to mention the turning habits.


Going to need new wheels, have you searched and understood the aspect of scrub radius and its effects ? How about master/booster upgrades ? Prop valve for rear disc brakes ?


Pinion angle vs caster needs to be checked. Pinion offset for the DS is a factor to consider.


Research and if you don't know or understand lets do each step independently.
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post #13 of 18 Old 01-24-2020, 12:10 PM
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Ill throw my hat in the ring. I too share the same mindset as several others.


RESEARCH and more RESEARCH before you do anything. I've attempted to quantify several angles of attack with factual, sound application but I get the feeling that the information is being ignored or perhaps not understood. The success or lack of is dependent on following sound build practices for suspension, steering and braking.


Unless you already have the Explorer axle I wouldn't start with that. Source an wider 8.8 from a F150 or similar.


Barnes, Ruffstuff (my favorite) etc sell axle swap kits. Yes you need new plates and mounts as well as U bolts. All those parts come in a simple swap kit


Chassis Unlimited is having a clearance sale on D44 steering parts. The Wagoneer steering parts will not likely be of much value.


YMMV and I'm not trying to be an *** but the rule is for don't lift your tow rig. Nice looking truck but I wouldn't want to tow with it


Good luck but lets consolidate the thought process.


Tonight lets get the axle stripped down and the knuckles off. You do have the upper ball joint pre load nut pronged socket ?


Have you understood the Reid knuckle is taller at the HS mount ? Which might play a factor in the DL clearing the spring ? Plus it has an addition hold down to secure the arm ? Did you contact them to see if they do anything with the cast arms for the TR ? If your going to run dual HS arms you'll be sorry when you find out the straight line stability sucks. Not to mention the turning habits.


Going to need new wheels, have you searched and understood the aspect of scrub radius and its effects ? How about master/booster upgrades ? Prop valve for rear disc brakes ?


Pinion angle vs caster needs to be checked. Pinion offset for the DS is a factor to consider.


Research and if you don't know or understand lets do each step independently.
Agreed and agreed. Even after the tons of research I woulda done a few things different to include going to the F150 8.8 instead of Explorer.

Trying to weld has honed my grinding skills


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post #14 of 18 Old 01-24-2020, 12:14 PM
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Really was only planing to do the front, without the springs. I read on here that you match sua mounts angle unless you want to rotate the knuckles.

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You can but the difference between stable and all over the road is 2-3 degrees of caster. If you measure off the spring perch edge and get it wrong by even 1/8" off at the edge, it may not want to steer or you may not be able to keep it on the road. If you get the driver side 1/8" forward and the passenger side 1/8" back, that's going to make for some interesting handling characteristics.

There are A LOT of things that the jeep community will overlook, save money, and take short cuts. If you want to drive on the road, this isn't one of them!!


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post #15 of 18 Old 01-24-2020, 12:36 PM
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Add a couple comments.

Don’t know what the caster to pinion angle difference is between a Dana 30 and a Waggy 44 is. That’s something you want to check for yourself.

Your lifting the YJ. That means the DS angle IS going to change. Are the two DS’s the same length ? Are the yoke CL to axle CL the same ? You shouldn’t just take for granted it’s all going to work because somebody said it would. Check YOUR numbers and proceed from there.

Ideally you want to mock up the axle with the YJ at ride height and see what your angles are. You might have to rotate the C’s to make everything work out.,

My friend did a S60 swap on his JK. He didn’t want to rotate the C’s so he compromised the pinion angle for caster. With the lockouts enraged he can’t go over 35 mph because of DS vibration. He is sorry now.

Called Reid out of curiosity. The D44 Chevy/Jeep knuckles are also based on the Bronco 44. The cast arm is higher than a stock knuckle. Meaning you have to do Reid knuckles in pairs. Not just the passenger side.
Makes sense since Reid can cast all the knuckles the same and only have to machine the spindle bolt pattern between them.
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