Bad starter? - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 29 Old 09-02-2019, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
jhrebs
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Bad starter?

I had a problem not so long ago. Going through batteries. Cleaned up all my connections and solved the issue. Now I have a starting issue. Donít know how to attach a video. The starter is turning but very slowly.

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post #2 of 29 Old 09-02-2019, 11:29 AM
UPStrades
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If you're going through batteries it's probably the alternator. The alternator keeps the vehicle charged and running. The battery simply starts it. If your alternator is bad then your vehicle keeps running off the battery
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post #3 of 29 Old 09-02-2019, 12:50 PM
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I had the same issue. Took a while to track down. My battery was going dead, starter cranked slowly. I cleaned all connections, made heavy-duty battery cables, the works. Thought upgrading all my battery cables would fix it, but it didn't. Eventually it stopped cranking at all.

Ended up being a dirty starter. The Auto Shop kids too it apart and cleaned it out; works good as new now.

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post #4 of 29 Old 09-02-2019, 04:53 PM
1project2many
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Have you checked for voltage drop across the positive and negative cables? You can do this with a test light or a voltmeter. In order to check for voltage drop you connect the tester to both ends of the wire or component being tested then turn the circuit on. So you would connect to the battery terminal and to the starter solenoid then try to start the vehicle. If there is a problem, a test light will light and a voltmeter would show significant voltage (likely greater than 8V). You can do the same with the ground connection. From block to battery negative, try to start, watch for light or for high voltage reading.

There are a bunch of videos about voltage drop. Some are better than others. If you take the time to watch
you will see a circuit very similar to the Jeep circuit laid out nicely on a demonstrator board. The instructor does a great job of explaining where and how to test in a method that works from the battery toward the starter and most "slow cranking" problems can be diagnosed with these steps.
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post #5 of 29 Old 09-02-2019, 06:11 PM
mikewiz38
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While it sounds like the starter is OK, I would take the battery to autozone (or elsewhere) to get it tested to make sure it's OK.

It also sounds like maybe something is sucking the battery power while the car is off, or the battery isn't holding a charge. You said you were going through batteries, so I bet something is pulling some voltage when the car is off, causing the starter to start slowly because there's not enough juice in the battery to turn it over.

Doing the voltage drop test is a good start. Do you have anything else connected to the battery besides the two thick stock wires? I believe one should go to the starter and one should go to the PDC. Besides that, when the battery is charged, I would run around the car to see if there's anything on or lit that shouldn't be. Lights, dome lights, brake lights, radio, turn signals, etc.

Good Luck

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post #6 of 29 Old 09-03-2019, 06:39 AM Thread Starter
jhrebs
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I did all that last time. Parasitic draw etc. found nothing. I cleaned up and replaced all my connections. And everything has been fine since.

Iím thinking a faulty alternator or starter.


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post #7 of 29 Old 09-03-2019, 07:18 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
Have you checked for voltage drop across the positive and negative cables? You can do this with a test light or a voltmeter. In order to check for voltage drop you connect the tester to both ends of the wire or component being tested then turn the circuit on. So you would connect to the battery terminal and to the starter solenoid then try to start the vehicle. If there is a problem, a test light will light and a voltmeter would show significant voltage (likely greater than 8V). You can do the same with the ground connection. From block to battery negative, try to start, watch for light or for high voltage reading.

There are a bunch of videos about voltage drop. Some are better than others. If you take the time to watch this video you will see a circuit very similar to the Jeep circuit laid out nicely on a demonstrator board. The instructor does a great job of explaining where and how to test in a method that works from the battery toward the starter and most "slow cranking" problems can be diagnosed with these steps.


I will do this today. Thanks.


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post #8 of 29 Old 09-03-2019, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
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Went home to start troubleshooting. Wife decided to tell me that when she went in to start the Jeep over the weekend(which is when she noticed the slow starting issue) she told me the ignition was forward just a tiny bit. Yes I can turn the ignition with no key.

Checked the battery before anything and it was reading 10 volts. So that was probably the issue.


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post #9 of 29 Old 09-03-2019, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
jhrebs
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Bad starter?

After doing some checks if I connect one end of multimeter to positive battery terminal and the other end to the small wire on the starter, I have constant 12 volts. Is this correct? I donít believe my Ď87 2.5 has a starter relay. My starter has a solenoid. One wire coming from battery. A ground. And a small wire with an inline fuse that goes into the wiring harness. This is the one with constant power.


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post #10 of 29 Old 09-03-2019, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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Should this be?


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post #11 of 29 Old 09-03-2019, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhrebs View Post
After doing some checks if I connect one end of multimeter to positive battery terminal and the other end to the small wire on the starter, I have constant 12 volts. Is this correct?
Yes. It tells you that if you connect a power wire to the solenoid then current will flow through the solenoid. But it really doesn't tell you anything useful about the condition of the solenoid.

Jeep (and many other) vehicles switched to using a starter relay to trigger the starter solenoid. It's very common today but your '87 may not be wired that way. You can still do voltage drop testing between the starter switch and the solenoid. With the meter connected like you describe, have someone turn the key to "start" and see if the voltage reading becomes very low.
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post #12 of 29 Old 09-04-2019, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
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Bad starter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
Yes. It tells you that if you connect a power wire to the solenoid then current will flow through the solenoid. But it really doesn't tell you anything useful about the condition of the solenoid.

Jeep (and many other) vehicles switched to using a starter relay to trigger the starter solenoid. It's very common today but your '87 may not be wired that way. You can still do voltage drop testing between the starter switch and the solenoid. With the meter connected like you describe, have someone turn the key to "start" and see if the voltage reading becomes very low.


I failed to mention that Iím getting power with the key off. And when we turn the key the voltage drops .30 volts.

I was under the impression that I had a power wire coming from battery. And an ignition wire. I wouldnít think that the small wire would have constant power with the key off. Iím so confused.


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post #13 of 29 Old 09-04-2019, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
jhrebs
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Just a follow up, after running the Jeep for awhile the battery was all charged up. Couple hours later she started no problem. The next day...... not so much. Dead.


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post #14 of 29 Old 09-05-2019, 05:43 AM
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Sounds like a drain... and other than the power feed to starter, there should not be constant 12V to the solenoid till you crank...

In the morning before starting, is the solenoid warm? if so, its drawing overnight... you may have a bad ign switch as well as a bad solenoid.

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post #15 of 29 Old 09-05-2019, 06:11 AM
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Sounds a bit like a short to ground through the solenoid. Power shouldn't be able to get to the trigger terminal (S) until the ignition is turned to 'START'. If power is travelling through the ignition switch in the 'OFF' or 'RUN' positions, the ignition switch is faulty. HOWEVER, if the solenoid isn't activating while that is happening, then the current is travelling to a ground short. That would be draining your battery. I think it's a 14 ga. green with white tracer that is on the 'S' terminal, but whatever color it is...it should read '0' volts unless cranking.
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