Arizona + A/C + Highway= Overheating - Page 3 - JeepForum.com
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post #31 of 146 Old 07-15-2019, 06:45 PM
Toastmaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie4 View Post
Iím at work and will chime in with more detail but some things about my Jeep.

My fan clutch is an OEM from a part out. The past 5 Hayden clutches were garbage and failed. I know a bad fan clutch and Iím 90% sure mine is good. I understand how they work and when it should lock up. No itís not leaking at the front where

I replaced the t-stat with a Mopar about 3-4 years ago. Before it was Autozone specials.

My coolant is 50/50 premix, no hose water.

My water pump is a new (not reman) Napa replaced with t-stat.

Radiator is the 4th or 5th Iíve had and itís Autozone brand.

Sorry if I missed some comments.

I appreciate the healthy discussion and Iím leaning towards a quality radiator.

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I'd definitely recommend a quality radiator, I think someone already suggested it but Champion Radiators out of Lake Elsinore make some really nice aluminum radiators with a lifetime warranty. I think the Spectra/Autozone OEM's are ~$100 while I paid about $180 for the Champion, and it holds something like 25% more coolant than the stock system.

I've also had some luck with flowkooler hi flow water pumps too, I know your water pump is relatively new - but figured it's worth mentioning at least.

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post #32 of 146 Old 07-15-2019, 07:04 PM
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If the fan clutch fluid isn't leaking, most likely it's ok. Look at the bi-metal spring in front and see if it is covered with dirt. If it is, the oily internal fluid is leaking and it's trash. If the spring is clean (relatively) it's not leaking. That's how most clutches go, they develop a leak and it loses the viscous fluid.
You may need a mirror to see the spring.

Horsepower IS heat. No kind of driving makes more demands on the cooling system as going fast.

The fan clutch is calibrated to run percentages of shaft speed. The speed is determined by the bi-metal spring. When it get's hot, it expands, lengthens, and opens a valve allowing the viscous fluid (by way of centrifugal force) to increase the fan speed.

I don't think it's your fan clutch, I think it's a radiator capacity issue.
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post #33 of 146 Old 07-15-2019, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Que89YJ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie4 View Post
I’m at work and I’m leaning towards a quality radiator.
Sent from Q
Que: but isn’t much of new car temp controls and isolation a direct intended result from attempting to limit the variables and conditions partially to effect emissions but mostly to optimize fuel efficiency? I.e. make the operating temp higher to maximize hp:ml of gasoline?

Our jeeps predate these engineered conditions. While still attempting to dump off huge amounts of unused / unusable energy (heat) that far exceeds a new vehicle’s heat waste. So I’m not sure I can 100% accept an e-fan as an upgrade.

You probably noticed I mentioned a number of similar observations to what you shared, so I’m not throwing out your thoughts, and I’ve learned a lot from your writings over the years.

Leaning towards Chris’ expounding, I am of the opinion Louie’s radiator has insufficient surface area to transfer the heat away. I could be wrong but I think his airflow potential is likely acceptable but the radiator has now revealed its shortcomings in his now extreme environment. Plus I think his actual temp vs his gauge reading is a little bogus.

It’s just that 170 years ago when the jeep was new it likely functioned fine in AZ, but replacement parts don’t match the oem specs

Are you thinking he should efan it?
Or buy a decent and probably $350+ radiator

I think a copper 3-row is a good start.

[size=ď3Ē]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #34 of 146 Old 07-15-2019, 07:46 PM
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Its funny to sit here and read all the very very in depth knowledge ( not saying that you aren't knowledgeable) of how his system is this and its that. I myself have a new Champion 3 core aluminum radiator, bought June of 2018, a 180 thermostat, brand new Hayden fan clutch, new 50/50 mix antifreeze, new hoses, and the system flushed and block drained when doing the flush, a 8000lb Champion winch (came with the jeep) and A/C. When running the A/C your condenser produces heat which in turn is in front of the radiator and the hot air that flows off of it goes directly into the radiator. Kind of like preheat in a oven. The jeeps when test driven by the factory do not have over sized tires on them or winches in front of the radiator. Therefore if you have larger tires a larger amount of drag is created in the rolling resistance of the vehicle which creates more energy/horsepower to keep it rolling at a higher speed and over time it creates more heat. I think what he was looking for was some help on what might be the root cause of the problem not a freekin physics class. My jeep runs close to the same temps as his. It gets fing hot here and I know it does in Vegas ive been there many times. Done with my rant...Just sayin
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post #35 of 146 Old 07-15-2019, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by fishadventure View Post
Que: but isnít much of new car temp controls and isolation a direct intended result from attempting to limit the variables and conditions partially to effect emissions but mostly to optimize fuel efficiency? I.e. make the operating temp higher to maximize hp:ml of gasoline?

Our jeeps predate these engineered conditions. While still attempting to dump off huge amounts of unused / unusable energy (heat) that far exceeds a new vehicleís heat waste. So Iím not sure I can 100% accept an e-fan as an upgrade.

You probably noticed I mentioned a number of similar observations to what you shared, so Iím not throwing out your thoughts, and Iíve learned a lot from your writings over the years.

Leaning towards Chrisí expounding, I am of the opinion Louieís radiator has insufficient surface area to transfer the heat away. I could be wrong but I think his airflow potential is likely acceptable but the radiator has now revealed its shortcomings in his now extreme environment. Plus I think his actual temp vs his gauge reading is a little bogus.

Itís just that 170 years ago when the jeep was new it likely functioned fine in AZ, but replacement parts donít match the oem specs

Are you thinking he should efan it?
Or buy a decent and probably $350+ radiator

I think a copper 3-row is a good start.
The point of the cooling systems in the modern vehicle is to get it to temp as fast as it can and maintain it within the tighter tolerances across both hot and cold temps. The electrical fan moves way more air and as much as you can argue the brilliance of the engineering behind clutch fan design it's old school in both efficiency and capacity. Almost all the modern cars from exotics to crazy cars like the demon to the smallest sub compacts and modern trucks are running electric fans.

For one of the better jeep refrences we have the best known aftermarket supplier for adapters on different powertrains in our jeeps. I agree a mechanical fan is fine. It cools the way its designed. It's just electric fans are better.


http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/cooling

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post #36 of 146 Old 07-15-2019, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Azhunter1 View Post
Its funny to sit here and read a freekin physics class.
/f12 IS an engineering class 🙂

que, jeeperdon, meanmax, chris, mark/florida luuca jsawduste et al to name have taught me a great deal and that’s why I ask questions like to Q above- to learn. My Jeep is an engineering exercise and is not the only thing I’ve built. And hopefully not the last thing I build. Louie’s pretty sharp on stuff too.

You’ve just raised some great engineering ponderings yourself. I think this thread has been great! This is, after all, The YJ Technical Forum

[size=ď3Ē]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #37 of 146 Old 07-15-2019, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awesome View Post
Wow. Deja Vu. There was a thread almost exactly like this about ~10 years ago. Guy even said "take your winch off."

It's your radiator, bro. That single-row isn't gonna cut it. Replacing other parts is going to be throwing money at a tiger hoping it eats the paper instead of you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siva283 View Post
I cant believe no one has said this yet but have you checked your fan clutch? I am sure your not the only YJ in pheonix. Your stock cooling system if working properly should keep your engine at proper temp even with the winch. So this happens at 55mph and over. If your fan is staying engaged and not free wheeling it can actually hinder air flow and the arizona heat has just made the problem show up. You might want to test and make sure your fan clutch isnt seized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbolty View Post
just throwing ideas out there ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Que89YJ View Post
Does it come with a spot for beer with the ice?

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I think it's a "Two-fer".

I'll keep you guys posted. I may upgrade my radiator. Not in a hurry just yet, but I'll take any recommendations.

So far, I'll look into Chris' Champion aluminum.
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post #38 of 146 Old 07-15-2019, 09:20 PM
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Radiator hose that's collapsed internally? Is the thermostat actually working properly, may be clogged up for some reason and stuck I've had that happen. If you shine a flashlight through the radiator and condenser fins can you see through? May be caked in dirt & grime, hard to really pinpoint the issue without the vehicle in front of us, but the way I understand it once you are cruising on the highway there's plenty of airflow that the fan doesn't matter that's mostly important when you are sitting still or driving slowly like city traffic type driving conditions.
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post #39 of 146 Old 07-15-2019, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wildbill23c View Post
Radiator hose that's collapsed internally? Is the thermostat actually working properly, may be clogged up for some reason and stuck I've had that happen. If you shine a flashlight through the radiator and condenser fins can you see through? May be caked in dirt & grime, hard to really pinpoint the issue without the vehicle in front of us, but the way I understand it once you are cruising on the highway there's plenty of airflow that the fan doesn't matter that's mostly important when you are sitting still or driving slowly like city traffic type driving conditions.


Hoses are new enough and I put a coiled welding rod in the lower one to keep it from collapsing. Condenser is new and cheap. The fins are far apart with no dirt in them. Thermostat is relatively new as well as the other components.

I feel like my radiator is not able to transfer the heat effectively but itís just a guess at this point. Iíll open up the radiator and look around.


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post #40 of 146 Old 07-15-2019, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie4 View Post
...The fins are far apart with no dirt in them. ...
And there's your final clue.

If your fins aren't dense you have less total surface area, which means less cooling capacity. Combine that with a single-row rad and you're gonna have heat issues.

I've been there, man. My cooling system is totally stock (aside from the Autozone water pump), and it runs 190Źļ 100% of the time. I've been stuck in traffic in 115ļ heat, temps didn't fluctuate more than 10ļ in the cooling system. What's the difference? I have a 3-row copper/brass radiator. I've only ever had my fan come on a few times, and it scared me when it did, since it almost never kicks on.

If you can spin the fan by hand when the Jeep is off, then the clutch isn't what's causing your overheating at highway speeds.

These guys are all really knowledgeable, but they're overthinking this like crazy. You need a new radiator, period.
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post #41 of 146 Old 07-16-2019, 12:04 AM
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I tried finding my receipt for my Champion 3 core but not sure where it is. Im thinking I paid $190ish.
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post #42 of 146 Old 07-17-2019, 06:53 AM
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Perhaps a bit late to this thread... but IIRC, we all (some of us) told you it would be HOT in Az.! Complaining not allowed!

j/k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie4 View Post

Radiator is the 4th or 5th Iíve had and itís Autozone brand.


having said the above... and not re-hashing other posts. I went thru all this 15 years ago. BigFat winch in front, AC, bla, bla, bla. After 2 OEM rads I said F it and got a cheapo Radiator barn all metal 3 row Rad and NEVER had an issue again. And that's with our own 106* summer days including driving up our infamous "4 lane" highway climb going up to the sierra NF.

Oh, and btw... did anyone tell you it can be hot in Az.?
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post #43 of 146 Old 07-17-2019, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by RockWoRM View Post
Perhaps a bit late to this thread... but IIRC, we all (some of us) told you it would be HOT in Az.! Complaining not allowed!

j/k





having said the above... and not re-hashing other posts. I went thru all this 15 years ago. BigFat winch in front, AC, bla, bla, bla. After 2 OEM rads I said F it and got a cheapo Radiator barn all metal 3 row Rad and NEVER had an issue again. And that's with our own 106* summer days including driving up our infamous "4 lane" highway climb going up to the sierra NF.

Oh, and btw... did anyone tell you it can be hot in Az.?
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post #44 of 146 Old 07-17-2019, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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Looks like a new radiator is in my future...but what brand?

So far, Champion and Radiator Barn.


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post #45 of 146 Old 07-18-2019, 05:14 AM
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I have a champion 3 row that just barely cools my SBC enough. Champion 3 row Radiator has only a .63" 'tube size. If you can find a 2 row with 1" tubes. They have more surface area and will have better heat exchange.

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