About to open a can of worms. YJ 4link - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
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post #16 of 237 Old 02-20-2020, 11:25 AM
Easyrider27526
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Very nice.

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post #17 of 237 Old 02-20-2020, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jsawduste View Post
RC and a smooth ride donít belong in the same sentence.

Your buddies are out wheeling you. Did you consider the ďstockĒ classes are limited to 37 inch tires ?
im not competing, I have no desire.
Your on 33ís and you havenít commented on whether your locked or not.
in my first post I mentioned I have a Detroit locker in the rear dana 35 and an arb air locker in the front dana 30
Perhaps optimizing what you have by running a larger tire. Better axles and gearing for a decent crawl ratio would be a consideration.
anything bigger than 33" on the axles I have is begging for problems down the road. for dana 44s, 35s are ok but going bigger than that is again asking for problems down the road. might be good for the 4th ave 4wd you always see that are sporting 37s but when you get them out in the rocks; it sure looks nice broken on the trail. I see it all the time here in Yuma.
It can be done. Jesse Haines won the 4600 class with a ROXOR and 37ís with OMG leaf springs !! And thatís not the 1st podium finish for JH and his lowly leaf sprung rig.
I looked into SOA but decided against it.
Iíll bet the trails the 4600 class runs would keep you and your buddies entertained.
im sure those trails would but again im not competing, this is for my hobby...

"money talks, mine always says goodbye"
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post #18 of 237 Old 02-20-2020, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Waternut View Post
You've got A LOT of work and money ahead of you. You can package 16" shocks under the rear fenders but the shock mounts will have to hang below the axle quite a bit. My 14" shocks hang below the axle and they are nearly touching the back corner of the fenders even with them angled.

I went a slightly different route than most with my rear 4 link and you can check out the link in my sig for ideas. I posted some pictures below for what 14" shocks can do with just SOA leafs in the front and about 5 in of stretch. I can keep up with a lot of crawlers on 40+ and can even do some stuff easier but there are certainly obstacles they do can better.

All of this said though.... You've probably got at least $15k planned for this Jeep right now in parts alone. 4k in shocks, 3k for that atlas, 4k in axles and lockers, 2k in links plus mounts and joints, 2k for full hydro, etc etc. Since you're doing this all at once, have you considered buying a $15k-$20k crawler and spending a month or two making it yours rather than starting from scratch and spending years making it yours?
ive considered just buying someone elses build but i like to know the history of my ride. this whole thing ive thought about a lot, for years infact. the company im going through for the suspension has worked out all the bugs at king of the hammers. they know what needs to be done and all the angles and where everything needs to be. if youre interested in looking, google rockslayer offroad. no, im not a vendor. lol
yes, this will be years in the making. the first thing is the atlas 4. my worn out old 231 wont last too much longer i believe. you can hear the guts spinning...

"money talks, mine always says goodbye"
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post #19 of 237 Old 02-20-2020, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jsawduste View Post
Respectfully your missing some key points in the axle comments.


that's why im here. what am i missing?

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post #20 of 237 Old 02-20-2020, 12:02 PM
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Gracefully pulling out.

I’ll observe from the cheap seats.

Have to add another comment after looking at the RockSlayer web site.

Not a company I’d want to touch my rig with.

Hopefully things work out for you.

If what I’m reading is indicative of the RSer approach to suspension. There are better ways to achieve your desires.

All the best and again, good luck.
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post #21 of 237 Old 02-20-2020, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Randonexplosion View Post
16" ORI's are going to be tough to fit if you want to keep it fairly low, at least in the rear. My 14s are up as high as they can go without going through the wheel well and they are hung off the back of the axle tube. There is a lot more room up front though.
ill text the company owner and ask him about that. you make a good point. how far back did you stretch it?
I made the factory frame work with 2 different iterations of my 4 link, once with coil springs and outboarded shocks then with ORIs. If it hadn't been for my timeframe I would have done a back half kit to make some more room.

Are you planning on full hydro up front or hydro assist?
havnt decided on that yet. it will eventually have something other than stock... or ill wait till i break the stock then upgrade. lol
I'm not familiar with the kit that you mentioned. What kind of joints does it use? "Universal" type kits can often be a lot of work. I pieced all of my brackets together mostly using Artec and Barnes4wd.
you know, i don't remember. he told me but it went out the other ear.

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post #22 of 237 Old 02-20-2020, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jsawduste View Post
No offense to the OP but this is a typical pack of dogs chasing the bouncing ball build.

Ideas gathered from others without forethought on how they mesh together and perform as a unit. There is comfort in following the crowd and conforming with the popular mindset. Be willing to step out of that comfort zone and do you own thing. Often you might just find there is a better way of doing things.

Learn and be willing to change the mindset as you understand the bigger picture.

To each his own but Iíd rather be the one throwing the ball rather than chasing it.

Just Ďcause you can doesnít mean you should.
so let me ask you this, i havnt been on here in along time, and i came here looking to pick from the knowledge base of those who have done a linked yj. if you want to comment that's fine, why comment and say something that reads like its a bad idea for me to do it. why not say something like you may run into ______ problem and you may want to address it like this______.
this isn't something that i came up with overnight. ive searched this thread for yj link builds and there aren't very many. why? is it because the majority think its a bad idea? no offense, but youre very criptic. you have offered no explanation, just criticism without a way to fix whatever you thought was wrong.
you said im missing key points on axles yet didn't mention them when i asked what i missed. if you don't want to help out, ok...
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post #23 of 237 Old 02-20-2020, 01:19 PM
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The answer is quite simple.

From your comments it is easy to see that your new at this. No fault of yours but I’ve been down this road with helping folks many a time. Along the way the project gets input from a vast number of people. Some good some bad. Often sound advice is ignored for a variety of reasons.

Your about to take on a very complex build that will require plenty of knowledge and a fair amount of engineering. If I try to offer guidance and you don’t like it than I’ve wasted both our times. Whereas I’m sure your a nice guy walking you through this build is more than I want to get involved with.

My comments (which can be taken as negatives) are supposed to peak curiosity on your part to further research.

I have failed to do so it would seem.

Why would you need a 4sp Atlas ? Isn’t some of the famous trails in JV ones you and your buddies would want to conquer ?

If your axle is 10 inches wider why would be convinced it’ll simply fall into place ? If you use any of the aftermarket trusses they all require cutting the casting. If your going to mount a ORI and a 4 link you don’t have enough tube.

Why have you discounted a good SOA spring setup ? Why would you even consider trying to use the factory steering with a SD axle ?

I’m not going to pick everything your writing apart. It’s simply not a good way to communicate.

Make a plan. Decide what is and isn’t important. Tackle each segment one at a time.
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post #24 of 237 Old 02-20-2020, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsawduste View Post
The answer is quite simple.

From your comments it is easy to see that your new at this. No fault of yours but Iíve been down this road with helping folks many a time. Along the way the project gets input from a vast number of people. Some good some bad. Often sound advice is ignored for a variety of reasons.
thankyou. i don't ignore advise but i ignore opinion when it gos against what i want to do. opinion means nothing me, its just feel good for the person whose opinion it is. if that makes sense. if you think its a bad idea, cool, post why it wont work and give an explanation and possibly a pic of what the problem was.
Your about to take on a very complex build that will require plenty of knowledge and a fair amount of engineering. If I try to offer guidance and you donít like it than Iíve wasted both our times. Whereas Iím sure your a nice guy walking you through this build is more than I want to get involved with.
yes, i get that. nothing is bolt on without tradeoffs. this "lift" wasn't just some guy in his garage who threw something together and sold it. he took his jeep out and tested it, just like any other company out there. ie RE, BD, SJ, RC etc etc. im not designing this, its already designed and tested.

My comments (which can be taken as negatives) are supposed to peak curiosity on your part to further research.
i get that too, in fact, i asked what i missed and you said you were going to sit in the cheap seats.
I have failed to do so it would seem.

Why would you need a 4sp Atlas ? Isnít some of the famous trails in JV ones you and your buddies would want to conquer ?
if you've ever drove a vehicle with dual cases this wouldn't have even been a question. that's all the atlas 4 is, dual cases in one.
If your axle is 10 inches wider why would be convinced itíll simply fall into place ? If you use any of the aftermarket trusses they all require cutting the casting. If your going to mount a ORI and a 4 link you donít have enough tube.
not true. the guy who owns the company suggested them because theyre easier to find and cost less(at least the front) and the diffs have a bit more ground clearance than the d60 and 70 as well as the 14 bolt. theyre 1 ton full float axles. also, why is it people who have links don't have a problem with them? i guess you missed the part where i said i was cutting the stock ford suspension tabs/perches off? i know its not drop in.
Why have you discounted a good SOA spring setup ? Why would you even consider trying to use the factory steering with a SD axle ?
that's what i wanted at first but i want the 4 link more. as far as the steering, i said i was eventually going with something other than stock. 40s would break a stock gearbox even with my support on it.
Iím not going to pick everything your writing apart. Itís simply not a good way to communicate.
i disagree. if something is wrong say something otherwise whats the point in saying nothing is a good idea. this is how things get fixed. i wonder how many engineers never disagreed with something that was being made or built. if that's the case willys overland would have never existed.
Make a plan. Decide what is and isnít important. Tackle each segment one at a time.
i have a plan but as i stated in an earlier post, im here for ideas on what i want not to be told im a dog chasing a bouncing ball, and i would never let them touch my jeep" without an explanation why. it just makes you look bad, like you have some chip on your shoulder or like the kid down the street who has to have the best bike but when someone gets something new and possibly better you hate all over it...
im not trying to be insulting, that's the way you come off.

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post #25 of 237 Old 02-20-2020, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jsawduste View Post
Gracefully pulling out.

Iíll observe from the cheap seats.

Have to add another comment after looking at the RockSlayer web site.

Not a company Iíd want to touch my rig with.
why?
Hopefully things work out for you.

If what Iím reading is indicative of the RSer approach to suspension. There are better ways to achieve your desires.
please elaborate. if there are better ways please post them.
All the best and again, good luck.
what are some companies you would go with?

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post #26 of 237 Old 02-20-2020, 04:01 PM
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If I was in your shoes and wanted a build that was fairly well thought out and proven. Moto Bilt and Dan DuBose would be worthy of your time..


Dan has the most complete YJ packages around that I know of. Before Moto Bilt, Dan started and ran Blue Torch Fab. A company with its roots in building YJ`s.


You might want to look at the Green Jeep featured on the MB site. There is plenty of information on how and why that rig was built the way it was.


Even if you decide that MB is not for you. Absorbing some of the information might be helpful in your JV Rock Monster build. A name mentioned as an encouragement not as sarcasm.


https://www.motobilt.com/


https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gene...ings-more.html
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post #27 of 237 Old 02-20-2020, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by danthman View Post
ive considered just buying someone elses build but i like to know the history of my ride. this whole thing ive thought about a lot, for years infact. the company im going through for the suspension has worked out all the bugs at king of the hammers. they know what needs to be done and all the angles and where everything needs to be. if youre interested in looking, google rockslayer offroad. no, im not a vendor. lol
yes, this will be years in the making. the first thing is the atlas 4. my worn out old 231 wont last too much longer i believe. you can hear the guts spinning...
You do what makes you happy at the end of the day and don't let people tell you otherwise. However, I feel like buying a vehicle already built and having someone build one for you are pretty much the same thing with extremely different prices. Compared to what you're talking about doing, frame repairs and engine/tranny works are childs play. So even finding a rig with all of this done but has a rusty frame with a blown engine is probably 100 times easier than starting from scratch.

Having done just a rear 4 link myself, I can tell you that there are about 400 compromises you're going to have to make during the install and probably double that for the front because steering gets mixed in. I don't care if Shannon Campbell or Jason Scherer who are multiple KOH winners build your rig, they are going to make decisions based on what they think is best which won't always be what's best for you. I may be sounding hypocritical but only because having someone who built something for them and selling it used is insanely cheaper than having someone build they think is best for you. Since you don't know exactly what you're getting either way, might as well pay 1/4 or less of the price up front and adjust to your needs from there.


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post #28 of 237 Old 02-20-2020, 05:03 PM
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Its about that time....

Anyone else want to join? Got an extra bag

AUDREY...95 YJ UNLIMITED LS
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LUCY...2005 Unlimited "LJ" Rubicon Sahara #495
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SOLD

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post #29 of 237 Old 02-20-2020, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waternut View Post
You do what makes you happy at the end of the day and don't let people tell you otherwise. However, I feel like buying a vehicle already built and having someone build one for you are pretty much the same thing with extremely different prices. Compared to what you're talking about doing, frame repairs and engine/tranny works are childs play. So even finding a rig with all of this done but has a rusty frame with a blown engine is probably 100 times easier than starting from scratch.

Having done just a rear 4 link myself, I can tell you that there are about 400 compromises you're going to have to make during the install and probably double that for the front because steering gets mixed in. I don't care if Shannon Campbell or Jason Scherer who are multiple KOH winners build your rig, they are going to make decisions based on what they think is best which won't always be what's best for you. I may be sounding hypocritical but only because having someone who built something for them and selling it used is insanely cheaper than having someone build they think is best for you. Since you don't know exactly what you're getting either way, might as well pay 1/4 or less of the price up front and adjust to your needs from there.
As usual, Mr. Waternut speaks of wisdom.
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post #30 of 237 Old 02-20-2020, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by danthman View Post
ive considered just buying someone elses build but i like to know the history of my ride.
It's not worth it... Lol
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