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-   -   About to open a can of worms. YJ 4link (https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/about-open-can-worms-yj-4link-4387635/)

danthman 02-19-2020 09:54 AM

About to open a can of worms. YJ 4link
 
its been awhile since ive been on this forum, Ive been building an 80 series land cruiser. now that I have it almost how I want it its time to rethink my YJ. my local friends have linked rubicons and the old YJ on 33s just cant go where they can without leaving metal shavings behind and the landcruiser is more for long distance out in bfe type trips. my nephew, having an ultra 4 and my brother having a linked Tacoma talked me into building another toy. my wife wasn't fond of the idea until she went in the ultra 4 and quickly changed her mind. she gave me the green light to build a crawler.
so here it is, as my 87 sits now, 4" rough country budget lift, dana 30 with an arb air locker, rear 35 with a Detroit. 231 with sye, tom woods DS front and rear, ax15 and EFI 4.2.


for what im going to do first:
axles. im still trying to source 2005+ ford superduty sterling axles. will be going with 5 something ratios. havnt really decided yet
ill be running 40s
Atlas 4 xfer case with, yes, 23 spline input. reason being is I can mount it on the ax15 but later when I get the nv3500 it will mount right up. the 3500 is a replacement for the ax15 and stronger.
for the suspension: this was the hardest to make a decision on but what I decided to go with is rock slayer offroad, raw kit. its basically the buggy slayer kit that you weld up yourself. for the "shocks" im going with the ori 16" struts. no need for springs. I would go with the 20" struts but I don't want to cut into the fender wells to make them work. I have my compressor under the hood and plan on taking along my little one in the back seat.
with this I can stretch the wheel base to the rear bumper if I wanted, but im not. it will be to only about to the first 1/3 of the gas tank which leads me into that. genright has a gastank that allows you to move the axle back. 6" for a dana 60 / 70 and 7" for a 44 if I remember correctly. that kinda sucks because I just put in a new 20 gallon tank. oh well, I guess ill sell it.
the front axle will be moved forward but not sure how far just yet.
ill also be getting hydro steering to turn those 40s in the rocks.
for the drive shafts, ill have some made up in phoenix for it when its all together.
when I source the axles, and pickup the links, the build should go pretty quickly... hopefully.

danthman 02-19-2020 10:22 AM

2 Attachment(s)
heres an idea of what im doing. this is the rock slayer offroad suspension.

NHfireLJ 02-19-2020 06:44 PM

You be just throwing cash...... Cha ching.... looking forward to seeing this...

Bong_Holyeo 02-19-2020 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHfireLJ (Post 40879733)
You be just throwing cash...... Cha ching.... looking forward to seeing this...

I love watching other people spend tons of money!

danthman 02-19-2020 08:00 PM

It's going to take a couple years probably.

fishadventure 02-20-2020 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHfireLJ (Post 40879733)
You be just throwing cash...... Cha ching.... looking forward to seeing this...

My context just doesn’t compute this.

jsawduste 02-20-2020 07:15 AM

26 Attachment(s)
Throw some random thoughts out for consideration.


The YJ frame doesn't lend itself to "fully take advantage" of a good 4 link. The rise from the dog leg back just isn't there. There are ways around this and several vendors make good money addressing it.


If you going to 37+ tires I hope you plan on stretching. The pitch axis above 37`s is pretty narrow.


I don't like 05 SD axles. That comment goes against the majority but here are some considerations.


Wide suckers
Cutting the casting on the short side has proven to weaken the axle enough that failures are not uncommon.
Cut all the stuff off them than go backwards and add a truss....Redundant when you find the truss mounts are designed for fitment not suspension performance.
The pinion angle to desired caster is a compromise.
The pinion C/L to TC C/L is a compromise.
You may very well find the center section hitting the frame a full stuff.
Make or buy axles setup for a YJ where you can spec numbers.
Getting good steering numbers is attainable but not easy.

danthman 02-20-2020 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishadventure (Post 40880037)
My context just doesn’t compute this.

meaning you don't understand why im doing it? my yj is fun but it cant dream of going where my friends go. at king of the hammers I cant go on most of the trails and it sucks and might as well stay on the street or back at camp. dirt roads are boring and thats what I have the land cruiser with AC and all my guns gear and beer for. my yj will be purpose built so I can do the things and go anywhere I like.


theres probably some purists out there that question why im doing all that to a yj. I get it, and I somewhat of a purist too but my yj is pretty modified as it sits. the PO did a lot of work to it and I trimmed the fenders to put tj flares for the 33s. theres nothing im doing that cant be undone with alittle work.

danthman 02-20-2020 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsawduste (Post 40880065)
Throw some random thoughts out for consideration.


The YJ frame doesn't lend itself to "fully take advantage" of a good 4 link. The rise from the dog leg back just isn't there. There are ways around this and several vendors make good money addressing it.
not sure what you mean by dog leg back

If you going to 37+ tires I hope you plan on stretching. The pitch axis above 37`s is pretty narrow.
yes, I was moving the rear back 5 or 6 inches. the front is still open for debate on how far it will go.

I don't like 05 SD axles. There, I said it and that comment goes against the grain of the majority.
lol, why don't you like sterlings? the front axle tubes are 4" on the 05+ years. I found some 07s.

Wide suckers
yes,yes they are but not as bad as it sounds. I will have to trim the fenders a bit.
Cutting the casting on the short side has proven to weaken the axle enough that failures are not uncommon.
im not trimming or cutting any casting at all. the only thing ill be cutting are the factory suspension tabs/perches. it will be a bare axle when I weld on the 4link parts.
Cut all the stuff off them than go backwards and add a truss....Redundant when you find the truss mounts are designed for fitment not suspension performance.
The pinion angle to desired caster is a compromise.
yeah, but that gos for every lift ever designed for most vehicles. that's why everyone is running those stupid little wedges between axle and spring.
The pinion C/L to TC C/L is a compromise.
You may very well find the center section hitting the frame a full stuff.
that's a possibility but the ori struts have internal bump stops and im not running the full 20" struts like what that jeep in the pics I added are. im going with the 16" and besides, the strut brackets mount to the side of the frame practically eliminating frame on axle contact. it will hit the bumpstops before that happens... hopefully. lol
Make or buy axles setup for a YJ where you can spec numbers.

finding axles for the yj gos against what im doing. I would have to cut everything off to weld it back on at the correct locations and the correct angles so nothing binds. like a BDC in a rifle scope, its never correct but only for the ammo the factory used in the location they used it. its close but still not spot on.

jsawduste 02-20-2020 08:09 AM

RC and a smooth ride don’t belong in the same sentence.

Your buddies are out wheeling you. Did you consider the “stock” classes are limited to 37 inch tires ?

Your on 33’s and you haven’t commented on whether your locked or not.

Perhaps optimizing what you have by running a larger tire. Better axles and gearing for a decent crawl ratio would be a consideration.

It can be done. Jesse Haines won the 4600 class with a ROXOR and 37’s with OMG leaf springs !! And that’s not the 1st podium finish for JH and his lowly leaf sprung rig.

I’ll bet the trails the 4600 class runs would keep you and your buddies entertained.

jsawduste 02-20-2020 08:23 AM

Respectfully your missing some key points in the axle comments.

Randonexplosion 02-20-2020 09:11 AM

16" ORI's are going to be tough to fit if you want to keep it fairly low, at least in the rear. My 14s are up as high as they can go without going through the wheel well and they are hung off the back of the axle tube. There is a lot more room up front though.

I made the factory frame work with 2 different iterations of my 4 link, once with coil springs and outboarded shocks then with ORIs. If it hadn't been for my timeframe I would have done a back half kit to make some more room.

Are you planning on full hydro up front or hydro assist?

I'm not familiar with the kit that you mentioned. What kind of joints does it use? "Universal" type kits can often be a lot of work. I pieced all of my brackets together mostly using Artec and Barnes4wd.

Easyrider27526 02-20-2020 09:24 AM

Don't worry about what they think. Opinions are like Butt holes, everyone has one. Please post some pics. It might inspire me to get to doing mine.

Waternut 02-20-2020 09:53 AM

You've got A LOT of work and money ahead of you. You can package 16" shocks under the rear fenders but the shock mounts will have to hang below the axle quite a bit. My 14" shocks hang below the axle and they are nearly touching the back corner of the fenders even with them angled.

I went a slightly different route than most with my rear 4 link and you can check out the link in my sig for ideas. I posted some pictures below for what 14" shocks can do with just SOA leafs in the front and about 5 in of stretch. I can keep up with a lot of crawlers on 40+ and can even do some stuff easier but there are certainly obstacles they do can better.

All of this said though.... You've probably got at least $15k planned for this Jeep right now in parts alone. 4k in shocks, 3k for that atlas, 4k in axles and lockers, 2k in links plus mounts and joints, 2k for full hydro, etc etc. Since you're doing this all at once, have you considered buying a $15k-$20k crawler and spending a month or two making it yours rather than starting from scratch and spending years making it yours?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3c70c65c2e.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...f74f9b2423.jpg

jsawduste 02-20-2020 10:09 AM

26 Attachment(s)
No offense to the OP but this is a typical pack of dogs chasing the bouncing ball build.

Ideas gathered from others without forethought on how they mesh together and perform as a unit. There is comfort in following the crowd and conforming with the popular mindset. Be willing to step out of that comfort zone and do you own thing. Often you might just find there is a better way of doing things.

Learn and be willing to change the mindset as you understand the bigger picture.

To each his own but I’d rather be the one throwing the ball rather than chasing it.

Just ‘cause you can doesn’t mean you should.


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