Mishimoto vs Mopar HD radiator - JeepForum.com
 
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post #1 of 14 Old 06-28-2020, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
02grandy
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Xj Mishimoto vs Mopar HD radiator

Most on this site will say stick with the Mopar 2 core HD but many people and reviews are fond of the mishimoto. besides the jeep normally running warm to hot. I'm always working the jeep even harder. plowing, pulling heavy loads, high speeds, low speeds, hills , radiator blocked sometimes from a plow. I need the full package. I've opened up a few threads about this before seeing whats new on it.

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post #2 of 14 Old 06-29-2020, 06:59 AM
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Mishimoto gets bad reviews with people who have actual wasted their money on them. I copy and pasted MANY horror stories about them for a guy on the TJ side. Nothing works better than stock IF everything else is in good condition and your system is clean.

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post #3 of 14 Old 06-30-2020, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
02grandy
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what part number you have for the mopar 2 core HD
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post #4 of 14 Old 07-01-2020, 06:11 AM Thread Starter
02grandy
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Xj

why does the racing world use all aluminum then ? Get at heat transfer no?
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post #5 of 14 Old 07-01-2020, 06:19 AM
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why does the racing world use all aluminum then ? Get at heat transfer no?
Aluminum is only part of the equation. There is also design characteristics of air flow at different speeds and water flow (too much water flow can also be a problem, it exits before it is fully cooled). Some producers brag about multiple tube rows, but putting one row behind another does not necessarily improve things. How thick are the fins (not too thick, not too thin), how well do they draw heat from the tubes?

Since almost all commercial radiators use aluminum cores, they already have the theoretical potential to cool well. All aluminum means aluminum tanks, which provide increases strength and durability, but add very little to cooling efficiency.

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post #6 of 14 Old 07-01-2020, 08:22 PM
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Copper and brass have better heat transmission characteristics. Aluminium is around 250 W/m K but copper and brass are nearer 400 W/m K. Paint them black and they are as good as you can get for heat transfer between the water and the fins.

However this is not the end of the story.

Aluminium is lighter and cheaper and tubes can be extruded into fancy shapes, which means they can have larger tube areas. Vacuum braze the tubes and fins and slap a plastic tank top and bottom and the tubes can be crimped into place. This makes them cheaper for mass production autos, which is why everyone uses them. Due to the tube area they can be more efficient than a copper/brass radiator.

You could weld it all up of course if you want to be fancy and then have all aluminium. However this will not add cooling capacity.

Break one and you will throw it away or need an expensive repair. They are also less tolerant to low coolant and neglect than copper/brass. With an aluminum radiator repair you could be looking at gaskets, epoxy, aluminum welding, plastics of different types, nylon and crimping tools. Of course JB Weld also works in many instances.

Copper and brass are soldered together and are relatively easy to repair, just needs a blow torch and a stick of solder and a clean surface. They can be taken apart at the rad shop and the tubes rodded out, new cores fitted relatively easily.

I have copper/brass radiators which have been in use for 70 years, probably had three new cores or more in that time but still there. The last radiator service / rod I had on a Jeep was $30.

So yes, an aluminium radiator could be more efficient and in some cases cheaper but they are not as maintainable or long lived.

Before you swap out a copper / brass radiator you shoud think about having it serviced.

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post #7 of 14 Old 07-02-2020, 08:36 AM
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This is probably my Luddite way of thinking but I don't want a "multi-material" radiator. What I really mean is I don't want plastic end caps on an otherwise metal radiator. I switched to a 3 row all metal when I first got my 01 and have been very happy with it. I know some say that is not needed and overkill but I do occasionally tow with mine. I also installed an auxiliary transmission cooler and trans filter. A coolant filter is next but I have not got around to it and hadn't thought about really where to place the filter adaptor and filter. I have even heard of folks adding a filter for their power steering fluid. I suppose in certain circumstances it might be warranted.
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post #8 of 14 Old 07-02-2020, 09:16 AM
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I've heard that the all-aluminum rads have galvanic corrosion problems, can't comment on it personally. Where are you finding an H-D Mopar Radiator? I want to take my XJ through some mountain passes in CO this summer, and it would be nice to have the extra cooling insurance.
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post #9 of 14 Old 07-02-2020, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by azhang253 View Post
I've heard that the all-aluminum rads have galvanic corrosion problems, can't comment on it personally. Where are you finding an H-D Mopar Radiator? I want to take my XJ through some mountain passes in CO this summer, and it would be nice to have the extra cooling insurance.
Aluminum is subject to galvanic corrosion, though in some environments (weather exposure) the resulting oxide film provides some protection. When used with proper anti-freeze, it is not really a problem.

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post #10 of 14 Old 07-02-2020, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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my jeep is a work horse. It snow plows in the winter and gets all salt in the radiator and runs hot and works hard. My CSF 3 row that I've had for 5 years or so was going great until I put a hole in it trying to get the clutch can out. At that time I realize all my cooling fins were turning to dust I assume from the salt...... idk.........When I ploe I usually pop the hood and have my remote trans cooler going to keep things under control. Along with running my electric fan with a manual switch. In the summer I'm towing heavy loads, going up hills with the a/c on . I need the best cooling set up plus FANS running in manual mode. I'm done running the trans through the radiator . I will be by passing it next time I have a chance but I still need a new radiator because I have POS in there now.
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post #11 of 14 Old 07-03-2020, 05:33 AM
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Salt is a killer. Aluminum, brass are attacked. Frequent fresh water washing is probably your best (imperfect) bet.

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post #12 of 14 Old 07-03-2020, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jay-h View Post
Salt is a killer. Aluminum, brass are attacked. Frequent fresh water washing is probably your best (imperfect) bet.
If you are in a road salt environment either type needs protective coating. The Japanese used to be way ahead in this area. Does this mean Mashimoto has coated anything? Hard to say, no specs on their website. But any radiator will work in several modes, radiant heat is far better if painted black. Up to you if you buy one, maybe a rattle can will save you later grief as the Lifetime Warranty will not cover corrosion.

One thing I did find out is that Mashimoto claim their radiator’s efficiency in some models could be increased to more than 30% over the OEM, a higher capacity than the OEM to keep the engine running cooler.

However this was because the Mishimoto radiator held 0.5gal (1.9L) more coolant than the OEM radiator, resulting in roughly 20% more efficiency under test conditions and an average of 20F decrease in coolant temperatures.

So the lesson is to get more liquid capacity in your radiator when you replace it. May seem obvious!!!!

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post #13 of 14 Old 07-03-2020, 07:29 AM
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The additional capacity has to be in the core, however. Larger tanks will just slow down the eventual heating.

Running hot (NOT overheated) is not a bad thing, especially in hot weather. The amount of heat shed is proportional* to the difference in temperature between the coolant and the air. Hence at a 100F day you would get over 45% more heat dissipation running at 195F vs 165F

(195-100)/(165-100)

*from quick research it appears to be linear

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post #14 of 14 Old 07-03-2020, 11:29 PM
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Agreed it needs to be in the core where the fins will dissipate the heat into the airstream. Logically this requires a thicker radiator core which is more rows of tubes but I understand the Mopar HD radiator core is is 1-5/8 inches thick versus 1 inch for the standard radiator and is single row. Not sure that info is correct, I got it for free.

This is where an HD radiator could help with cooling, it is not about materials used but just the amount of coolant in the core. which makes an aftermarket radiator labelled as HD just a thicker radiator, nothing special.

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