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Copart: roling the dice

6K views 69 replies 11 participants last post by  tburger88 
#1 ·
Greetings - first timer here. I just paid $2098.00 for a 2000 Cherokee SE 4D 4WD with 165K miles on it. Listing indicated mine dents and scratches and a mechanical issue. Carfax had 1 owner, no accidents, and regular service. If I had to guess, the owner had to get service 2 years ago to pass emissions test, then failed it again in May of this year, selling the car to Peddle Llc instead of throwing more money at it. I may need your guys help in nursing this XJ to health - especially if the mechanical issue turns out to be major or the rust looks really bad. First jeep ever for me. I like to buy old salvage Hondas and rebuild them. The carfax makes it look like someone babied this XJ then couldn’t afford to keep it going and couldn’t diy. I forgot to mention: this car lived in Frederick MD it’s whole life so I’m worried about rust!!!
 

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#6 ·
I finally got her! The good news: almost no rust underneath, but I only looked while it was up on the vehicle transport. Even the rocker panels look rust free. Bad news: she throws code p0303 - cylinder 3 misfire. As long as the block itself isn’t cracked, I’m ok with fixing the other potential problems. As long as the cylinders themselves aren’t toast.
 

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#7 ·
Don't get all worried just yet.
While a lot of times I believe a misfire code is just the symptom of an underlying problem sometimes it is not.
Had a P0304 in my '00 a couple years ago.
Figure simplest thing first.
Pulled the plug, looked fine, but replaced it anyway.
Been fine ever since. LOL.
 
#9 ·
Just started her for the first time. Engine sounds good at idle, revs nicely. I erased the code before starting and no codes have been thrown yet. Can’t drive her because no tags. No smoke from tail pipe. As engine starts to warm up I hear a very very slight knock that goes away when I rev. It’s barely noticeable. I’m not accustomed to the sound of a normal and healthy 4.0 I6 so is that normal? Goes into and out of gear nicely and in park I can shift between 2H 4H and 4L smoothly. But no lights came on to show that I’d shifted into 4WD - is that normal? All I see on the dash - which is minimal with no rpm gauge even - is “part time” and “full time.” They did not light up. Tried driving in driveway in 4H and 4L. Some grinding noise from transfer case when switching into h or l. L wanted to pop back into N. Also I don’t know the procedure for shifting into 4WD; I should read the manual 😬 radiator fan came on at just over 100C. Coolant looks clean - no oil. Shifting between P D and R gave slight lurches but nothing major and no clunk noise. It’s an Automatic btw.

Oh one last thing: short and long term trim could be better. One of them stayed at just over 14% fr a while and the rest fluctuated between 5-9%, mostly negative I think. Srry for the long post.
 
#10 ·
Why tear it apart? You just got it! What oil pressure? My XJ has 180k and the 0331 head is fine so far. Just don't let it overheat. Mine rattles at start-up too then gets quiet when all warmed up. Every misfire I ever had was cured by a new injector. So do the spark plugs, oil, coolant, the usual stuff, and keep your fingers crossed.You may have found the diamond in the rough.
 
#13 ·
I got the misfire code on my 01' after I got it, I did a full tune up changed and flushed all fluids and put a bottle of seafoam in the gas tank and have had no problems since.

I also put in a bottle of Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner about every 5-6 tanks, because fuel here is such high quality haha.
 
#15 ·
When my other 2001 XJ had the cracked 0331 head it was traced to an overheat condition caused by a leaky water pump. It was ignored by my daughter and eventually the milky oil showed up under the oil filler cap. Oil pressure had dropped too as the oil got mixed with coolant. When I got to it the oil pressure was 8psi at hot idle and yet the engine ran silently. Upon tear-down the rockers were gouged all to hell and the head had a crack right between the #3 and #4 exhaust valves. I ended up buying a new Chinese cast head, had it finish machined here, and the short block totally re-manufactured. It cost $4000 and now is running like new. So don't be so quick to change the head unless it fails a cooling system pressure test. Oil pressure is key. If you are at 10-20psi at hot idle and it rises to 40-50psi at speed you are fine. Also that was my first ever 4.0 removal/replace and I would rather chew on broken glass than go through that again. These Jeeps are a #$%^*&^%% to do that on.
 
#16 ·
Thanks Fourspeedman that sound like a joy, hopefully I still have a minute before I have to do that to mine, it only has 127xxx on the clock and my OCD maintenance should keep it going for awhile, plus I will need the time to save up the $$$$. but this is our forever jeep/mistress so of course she gets what she wants.
 
#20 ·
I don't think it was fleet based on the stereo they put in and the kids' garbage I found, but I got it up on Jack stands and started draining oil etc. just finished going over her more closely and whoever owned it did well with oil changes, the bare minimum everywhere else.

1. Missing lug nuts were replaced with open nuts that fused via rust to hub studs. I snapped my favorite 3/8 drive wrench on one.
2. Calipers in front wheels are nightmares of rust. Can't really see rear drums yet.
3. Wheels have seized to the hubs - I've tried penetrating oil, hammering, kicking, etc. Tomorrow I try careful use of a pry bar.
4. All shocks and leaf springs and coil springs are toast. Rusted through. The frame looks amazing though - maybe it was treated? I don't get how someone can drive 20 years and let shocks and springs get this horrific while the frame stays in good shape. I mean these MUST be OEM shocks from 2000. Let me know if you want pics.
5. I am guessing i may want to replace font hub/bearing assemblies in front, maybe new axles and bearings/seals in back - as preventive maintenance based on what little I can see of their condition now.
6. Leaf spring shackles are crumbling from rust, but the frame where they bolt on looks salvageable/ok but the passenger side shackle area is the only place where frame rust looks advanced enough to worry me. I'll know more once she's taken apart. Getting those bolts out is going to be hell on earth.
7. Major oil leak issues around pan gasket, valve cover, and maybe oil filter adapter. Possibly rear engine seal too. Freaking Chrysler!
8. Transmission fluid level good, fluid a bit dark but doesn't smell burnt. Yay!
9. Anywhere there's a ball joint, it looks bad. The steering components may have to come out.

Im going to take this slowly so I don't break the bank all at once. I took someone's advice and ordered spark plugs plus a couple of fuel injectors to deal with the p0303 code. No sense worrying about the engine if the suspension isn't safe to drive on. Driving it 30 feet into my garage, it felt like there were no brakes.
 
#21 ·
Start spraying everything with PB Blaster days before removal of any questionable bits, I went through mine before tear down spraying once or twice a day made removal alot easier and only broke a couple bolts along the way and mine is almost completely rust free.

Pics, always pics.
 
#22 ·
A trick I learned a long time ago for removing seized wheels, first put the lugs on one side tight and the other just enough to stop tire from flying across the yard put a high lift jack on it's side with base against the in side of one tire then put a 4x4 or 2x4 from jack to inside of other tire add some pressure(PUT A SAFTY STRAP AROUND 4x4 AND JACK BAR) (DO NOT TRY TO JACK THEM APART this can bend the wheel) when under pressure hit wheel near lugs with short piece of 2x4 and BFH.

With the combination of pressure and shock they should break free.

Be very careful doing this it is not the safest thing but works well if you are careful.
 
#26 ·
Yikes it sounds like it was under saltwater except for the body. Amazing that it did not suffer like the rest. As far as oil pressure there is no sensor so no code. And the factory feels 13psi at hot idle is acceptable. I know, that sounds like a shot engine. But back in the day my Pontiac V-8s ran with 8 psi at hot idle. How things change. But I had to use a low reading oil gauge to actually see what it was. The dash gauge showed 0 psi so I used a 30psi mechanical gauge and the 8 psi showed clearly. And yet the engine ran silently. I agree with loosening the lugs a bit then rolling the vehicle back and forth to get the wheel loose. That worked for me once before. Then I could not get the rotors off. I used a brake drum removal tool, a BIG-FH, and lots of oil to get it off.
 
#27 ·
Dont get too hung up on oil pressures if the engine is running sweetly. I have been driving my Cherokee for 12 years on low oil pressure.

The camshsft bearings can wear and leak a lot of pressure but the engine runs fine, or at least that is my pet theory. OH, and the in dash gauge is not reliable.
 
#39 ·
Yep. I'm taking my time on this one. I only just found out that my 3 ton Jack stands can't go high enough to support front end work if I put them under the frame. Freaking front suspension just hangs down so the wheels never leave the ground! it's either Jack stands under the axle or buy 12 ton stands. I bought 12 ton. Lol
 
#36 ·
It's a joke Ralph. But seriously- no torque specs for ball joint nuts? Directions like "install engine reverse of removal"? Remember my 4.0 rebuild? YOU gave me better info/advice than the FSM. And Jtec, and CJ7-Tim, and MichaelJ51, 2oldJeeps, RobK, The Boogieman, OCDXJ, UKXJ, and anyone else I left out. You guys are SERIOUS about these things. Man I would have set this thing on fire without you guys help!
 
#37 ·
Well I can understand your frustration. But the FSM, and the parts catalogs for that matter, are like internet. It's all out there. Just a matter of finding it.
Well in this case in there but you get the idea.
Took me a couple seconds in my hard copy of my '01 FSM to find it.
Little longer in the PDF version of my '00 FSM.
Which is why I prefer a hard copy.
And it is under where the steering knuckles are so that is not really helping.
Also I am looking at that picture and wondering is that a Chilton's?
Cause this is what real FSM looks like.
The color changes with the year but all look similar.
Oh and not rub it in. LOL.
But I got that '01 FSM for free off Craigslist. About 6 years ago I think.
Well maybe not for free. Was a 50 mile roundtrip to go pick it up so...... MLOL.
 

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#46 ·
Ralph I have that same looking issue FSM. It is a MASTERTECH: 01 XJ 81-370-1046. And mine has those exact pictures of how to remove/replace ball joints. But the 181 and 186 are in their own sections. Neither have the torque specs! Now I am totally confused. NOT the same manual? Anyway, I do give this manual high marks for the wiring diagrams. Very complete and easy to comprehend. It is the mechanical side that is frustrating. It is as if they expect you to know things just because you work on Jeeps and why should we include info you should already know?
 
#48 ·
Ralph I have that same looking issue FSM. It is a MASTERTECH: 01 XJ 81-370-1046. And mine has those exact pictures of how to remove/replace ball joints. But the 181 and 186 are in their own sections. Neither have the torque specs! Now I am totally confused. NOT the same manual? Anyway, I do give this manual high marks for the wiring diagrams. Very complete and easy to comprehend. It is the mechanical side that is frustrating. It is as if they expect you to know things just because you work on Jeeps and why should we include info you should already know?
Is Mastertech the publisher of the book you own?
Tried to Google it but came up empty.
Like I said all FSM's pretty much look the same.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Jee...JWc0KHVe_DC0Q_AUoAnoECAEQBQ&biw=1770&bih=1057

Now when I was trying to find that info I looked for ball joints in the index. And going to the ball joint section the specs were not right there.
But I know enough to know that it is most likely somewhere in there.
And all front end crap is in the same area in my FSM.
So browsing a couple pages in either direction came across the steering knuckles and sure enough.
Also to when I first got the FSM I used to browse it in front of the TV.
Was really surprised at the amount of info in there.
But as I said before finding things in there can sometimes be a bit challenging but betting most if not all times it is in there.
 
#49 ·
Yes, that is the publisher. It says on the back cover "Dealer Technical Operations". Believe me, I went all through this thing, all sections, no ball joint specs. If you really want to tear your hair out- try useing the CD versions for newer models. They stopped printing FSMs around 2010(?) and all you can get is a disc. I downloaded a CD FSM for my daughter's 2012 Liberty and it is beyond useless.
 
#50 ·
Nothing I tried was able to get the front wheels off except a propane torch. Got one off, one to go. It was rusted on so badly that the brake rotor has a crust of rust on it. Went off like pistol once it broke free and scared the **** out of me. Lol
 
#51 ·
Srry fr dark pics - it's getting dark. Second front wheel came off; the hub, rotor, and rim had fused with rust. Also took a pic of the wheel well to show part of a rusty shock, the disintegrating bump stop, rusted out sway bar link, dry rotted ball joint etc. tomorrow is front end disassembly and gasket/seal replacement day! I'm also going to restore the steel wheels using naval jelly.
 

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#56 ·
Srry I’ve been absent - health issues and major Jeep issues. Front end is finally disassembled and I changed the transmission mount, cleaned transmission pan and filter, then pulled the oil pan and oil pump. I removed several main bearing caps and I’m glad I did - copper is showing through. I’ll lightly sand the journals with crocus cloth then try the redneck roll in once my new bearings arrive. In frame rebuild. Kind of.
 

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#60 ·
Srry I've been absent - health issues and major Jeep issues. Front end is finally disassembled and I changed the transmission mount, cleaned transmission pan and filter, then pulled the oil pan and oil pump. I removed several main bearing caps and I'm glad I did - copper is showing through. I'll lightly sand the journals with crocus cloth then try the redneck roll in once my new bearings arrive. In frame rebuild. Kind of.
Update: I'm going to start taking apart the top of engine stuff this weekend so I can pull the head. Quick inspection of the cylinders (what I can see from the bottom) looks really good. Fingers crossed that there's no ridge at cylinder top; ridge reaming seems tricky fr someone who's never done it.
 
#58 ·
What's your plan with the Jeep? Keep it factory & drive it another 150,000 miles? Polish it up a little & sell it? Make improvements to it and drive it? Do you plan on lifting the vehicle? If so, how much? Tell us your dreams. As you tear into it, instead of putting it back together with factory parts, we might have some advice on replace it with this, that, or the other thing and stay away from so and so parts.
 
#59 ·
Good question. I'm not selling; I've always wanted an XJ so this is a labor of love. And now a little hate lol. I thought I'd get lucky and get a car with suspension issues but an engine that still had life. I need it to drive locally and to take on camping trips where I may do easy/moderate off roading (dana 35 rear axle with c clamps, unfortunately). So I plan to lift it 3" but can't afford top end lift kit; I likely don't need top end since I won't be rock crawling or doing anything difficult.

The engine issues are a real bummer. It's a one owner car with no accidents but it looks like the guy never did basic maintenance and at some point stopped changing the oil and oil filter. Now that I've seen the bearings, I'm going to remove the head and take a look at the cylinders plus pop the pistons out for a thorough inspection. I'm thinking it may need new rings. I may have gotten lucky and caught this before catastrophic failure, but it's more work and more $ than I thought.

Bottom line: my priority now is to make it reliable enough that I can take it on road trips without worrying about the engine dying.
 
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