Consolidated Post - P1694, Crank, No Start, No Relay Click, 5V ref at .3v - JeepForum.com
 
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post #1 of 15 Old 03-28-2020, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
blackitout
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Hey Everyone, JTec has been helping me out a lot on this post https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/h...luded-4391481/

Originally I thought the problem was fuel wiring but it wasn't. So I'm making this post so there is a consolidated post of every test I've performed so it's not as confusing.

1997 XJ Sport, No security system, no power windows, no power locks, no abs. Base as it gets.

It worked when I bought it 4 years ago. Changed the NSS a few months later. It worked fine since then until I had to move it to my Father in Laws because I live downtown and have 2 cars. He had been starting it periodically and then one day it just wouldn't start or do anything. Father in law did change the battery at one point last year. He has a 2001 XJ and his fuel pump and relays work every time he turns the key on.

Problems
-P1694 code
-Instrument cluster isn't working(mileage always shows, there's never a no bus on the odometer, no lights on except my brake light for my hand brake.).
-5v reference sensors are all .3v
-Relays never click on, no fan, no ac, no ASD, no fuel pump
-No fuel pressure
-No fuel pump sound
-Owner before me jerry rigged the fuel pump wiring but I fixed that about a week ago.

Tests I have done All done with Key on, engine off

-(with key off) Did an ohm check between CCD+ between the PCM Gray(C) 30 pin to the TCM CCD+ Result was less than 5ohms

-(with key off) Did an ohm check between CCD- between the PCM Gray(C) 28 pin to the TCM CCD- Result was less than 5ohms

-(with key off) Did the same ohm check between PCM CCD + and - to the CCD + and - to the OBD module. Same result. Less than 5 ohms.

-Checked CCD+ on OBD module, it showed 2.47v

-Checked the voltage of the CCD+ at the TCM, it showed 2.47 volts

-Checked the voltage of the CCD+ on the PCM, it showed 2.47 volts

-Unplugged the CPS, instrument panel never started working. I changed the CPS with a Genuine Mopar part anyway. So that's brand new

-I unplugged every 5v Reference sensor one by one with a multimeter using the TPS as the reference. Voltage never went over .3v unless I unplugged the Fuel pump. Then it went to .4v

-Changed relays with good relays. None of them click on.

-Checked the grounds for the PCM, and the dipstick grounds. They were good

-I did an ohm check on the ASD Relay and Fuel Pump relay, they were good

-As per JTec's advice I checked the ASD Relay, Fuel Relay, Ignition coil, Injectors, stator and fuel pump for 12v for the first 3 seconds I turned on the key. All were 0v

-To make sure the ASD Relay, Fuel Relay, ignition coil, injectors, stator and fuel pump were getting power, I jumped the ASD Relay and Fuel Relay. When I did that, Everything mentioned got 12v. So they are all getting power.

-With the ASD and Fuel relay removed I checked cavity 30(the one that gets constant 12v) and it gets 12v

-I checked the 5v supply on the PCM Black(A) pin 17 and it read the same .3v unplugged.

-I did the same check on the 5v Supply PCM Black(A) pin 17 by back probing. Still .3v plugged in.

-I have checked every fuse with a multimeter in the PDC and inside the passenger footwell. All getting 12v. I've also pulled every single one to be sure none are blown. None are. Fuse 11 is fine.

-I've done the instrument cluster test and all the gauges work fine.


That's all I can think of now. If I can think of more I'll edit this and add more. If anyone has any idea what is going on I'd love some more info. A big thanks to JTec for sticking it out with me. I hope this helps you out.

I am also a NOOB. This is the first time I've ever done any of this. I've been researching for months and testing what I can think of so if I don't know an acronym, procedure or a code I do apologize for my ignorance. I have been using Cruiser54's FSM for pinouts, and diagrams. I'm learning as I go. If I wrote pin cavity numbers wrong it was by accident. When testing I used pinouts to find the right ones. I tested on the correct ones.

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post #2 of 15 Old 03-29-2020, 02:06 AM
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this caught my eye and where I am now going to look

"I checked the ASD Relay, Fuel Relay, Ignition coil, Injectors, stator and fuel pump for 12v for the first 3 seconds I turned on the key. All were 0v"

Back later.


PS good idea to regroup and make new post.

When I see the price of OEM I think aftermarket.
When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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post #3 of 15 Old 03-29-2020, 08:40 AM
CJ7-Tim
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I do not recommend changing random parts with no diagnostics involved, but, if you can source a low cost used PCM it may be worth your time to see if the faults are PCM related.

Here is some P1694 info I have gathered. I would try unplugging the TCM and remote keyless entry module as suggested.

Inspect and test the CPS wire plug and wire harness for loose connection pins, corrosion, and damaged wires. Inspect, clean, and tighten firmly the two ground wires at the ignition coil. They also are ground locations for the transmission computer.

P1694 Fault In Companion Module. No CCD/J1850 bus messages received at the power train control module (PCM) from the AisinWarner Transmission Control Module (TCM).

P1694 will set if no CCd bus messages are received from PCM for 20 seconds or invalid messages are received for 20 seconds.

Possible Causes
- Faulty Crankshaft Position Sensor.
- Faulty TCM.
- CCD Bus (-) circuit open between PCM and TCM.
- CCD Bus (+) circuit open between PCM and TCM.
- Transmission CCD bus wiring damaged
- CCD Bus (-) circuit open between PCM and TCM.



In the past there have been reports that the Transmission Control Module (TCM) failures and Remote Keyless Entry (RKE) module failures have caused similar symptoms and faults. Note that the RKE module is on the CCD Bus. Try unplugging the RKE module and try unplugging the TCM and see if the NoBus message goes away and all gauges work. If so, replace the TCM or RKE.

Engine sensor wire harness/wire plug issues, a faulty CPS, or a faulty TCM should be the first suspects for a P1694.


Additional reading >> http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=63167

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post #4 of 15 Old 03-29-2020, 08:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7-Tim View Post
I do not recommend changing random parts with no diagnostics involved, but, if you can source a low cost used PCM it may be worth your time to see if the faults are PCM related.

Additional reading >> http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=63167
Thanks for the info. I've read that page also which prompted me to do all the CCD tests. I don't have keyless entry so I can't test that.

Yesterday I was going to the junkyard to grab a PCM to check to see if that was the cause as you mentioned. Unfortunately nobody had the same coded PCM as mine which is 277AD.
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post #5 of 15 Old 03-29-2020, 10:37 AM
CJ7-Tim
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As long as the P56041277 part number matches, you can ignore the two letter alpha revision code (AB, AC, or AD) at the end.

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“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic.”

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post #6 of 15 Old 03-29-2020, 11:29 AM
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how did you check fuses - tell us you did not just look at them ?

when you turn key to START does engine crank?

I am thinking the PCM is NOT getting powered up.

When I see the price of OEM I think aftermarket.
When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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post #7 of 15 Old 03-29-2020, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtec View Post
how did you check fuses - tell us you did not just look at them ?

when you turn key to START does engine crank?

I am thinking the PCM is NOT getting powered up.
The engine cranks every time. Oddly the battery voltage never goes down(if I use a multimeter on the + and - of the battery) no matter how long I keep the key in the on position. I've had it on for hours and it'll never lose voltage.

Lol no I didn't just pull them. I used a multimeter on the top of each side of the fuse while using FSM wiring diagrams to see which ones should be hot. I did also pull them to double check.
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post #8 of 15 Old 03-29-2020, 02:21 PM
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if batt volts dont ever drop there is no batt connection to the car except when cranking. key works. starter sol works.
you have an open relay or fuse.
oh ,headlights?

99wj,143,000 miles
00xj,177,000 miles
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post #9 of 15 Old 03-29-2020, 04:44 PM
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lets look at the ASD relay, swap with a similar known good relay.
confirm that with KOEO relay cavity C2 and C4 have 12v, also that C6 is grounded in RUN.

Make a fused jumper 25amp -
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When I see the price of OEM I think aftermarket.
When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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post #10 of 15 Old 03-29-2020, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oldjeeps View Post
if batt volts dont ever drop there is no batt connection to the car except when cranking. key works. starter sol works.
you have an open relay or fuse.
oh ,headlights?
I haven't checked if the headlights work, however the overhead light works.

Can you explain the open relay or fuse? I don't follow. My relays never click on. I've checked all the relays and fuses. They're all good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jtec View Post
lets look at the ASD relay, swap with a similar known good relay.
confirm that with KOEO relay cavity C2 and C4 have 12v, also that C6 is grounded in RUN.

Make a fused jumper 25amp -
I did forget to mention I switched ASD relay with a known good relay. Still didn't work. I tested the relay cavities and if I remember correctly where pin 30 on the relay goes got 12v. Only one cavity in the ASD got 12v with key on.

I'll have to make a fused jumper. The jumper I used was 2 male connectors connected by copper wire.

Like I mentioned before when I used the jumper on the ASD, the whole ignition system got 12v.

Does anyone know what makes the Relays click on the PDC to begin with? None of them click. No fan relay, no ac compressor relay, no ASD, no fuel relay.

Do does the ASD control the AC and the FAN too?
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post #11 of 15 Old 03-30-2020, 08:15 AM
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Sorry for long post -

I am anal and set in my ways (old fart curmudgeon) SO when I get a thought I need to follow it, there may be more going on mentally than suggested in idea.

The diagram you added for a relay is similar but not same relay.
I added and marked the diagram above. So we dont confuse where 2,4, 6 is in PDC
The theory - the PCM internally grounds the relay causing it to close by grounding C6.

You mention no 'clickly' AND the reason I said I would focus on the ASD post #2 above. It seams the PCM is not controlling the relays... We are confirming that.

first with KOEO is there 12v at 2 and 4 ?
second is 6 a good ground?

When I see the price of OEM I think aftermarket.
When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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post #12 of 15 Old 03-31-2020, 08:41 PM
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I just helped someone diagnose this same issue. No fuel pump noise, cranks and cranks. He had instrument cluster issues typical for CPS failure(fuel gauge and volt gauge). No OBD port coms.

Turned out it was the PCM. He has a manual trans, but was able to use a friend's auto PCM for testing. Plugged it in and it fired right up.
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post #13 of 15 Old 04-01-2020, 08:23 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smobag View Post
I just helped someone diagnose this same issue. No fuel pump noise, cranks and cranks. He had instrument cluster issues typical for CPS failure(fuel gauge and volt gauge). No OBD port coms.

Turned out it was the PCM. He has a manual trans, but was able to use a friend's auto PCM for testing. Plugged it in and it fired right up.
Thanks for the information. I've suspected this since the 5v supply to the PCM was still .3v even backprobing. I have a PCM on order. When it gets here, if the gauges move we'll know. Then I'll get the VIN and mileage programmed in.

When it gets here I'll let every one know the result. I'll still have to get another fuel pump but at least the rest of the Jeep will work 👍.
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post #14 of 15 Old 04-01-2020, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackitout View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by smobag View Post
I just helped someone diagnose this same issue. No fuel pump noise, cranks and cranks. He had instrument cluster issues typical for CPS failure(fuel gauge and volt gauge). No OBD port coms.

Turned out it was the PCM. He has a manual trans, but was able to use a friend's auto PCM for testing. Plugged it in and it fired right up.

Thanks for the information. I've suspected this since the 5v supply to the PCM was still .3v even backprobing. I have a PCM on order. When it gets here, if the gauges move we'll know. Then I'll get the VIN and mileage programmed in.

When it gets here I'll let every one know the result. I'll still have to get another fuel pump but at least the rest of the Jeep will work 👍.

Well ladies and gents. It was the PCM. Fuel pump is still bad but it starts with starter fluid and all the gauges and relays work.

For anyone who has this same problem I hope this helps you !!!!!!!!!!
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post #15 of 15 Old 04-02-2020, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by blackitout View Post
Well ladies and gents. It was the PCM. Fuel pump is still bad but it starts with starter fluid and all the gauges and relays work.

For anyone who has this same problem I hope this helps you !!!!!!!!!!
Glad to hear, best of luck on the fuel pump!
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