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Champion 3 row aluminum radiator (review)

129K views 276 replies 51 participants last post by  Jeeper5 
#1 ·
So after 150k miles my stock radiator started leaking and started the search for a new radiator. Now as a background I did have some problems over heating, but only with the worst of the worst situation like doing 3k rpm at 75mph in 105 degree heat with the A/C on. So I figure in order to counter that I'd like an upgraded radiator instead of the stock OEM replacement.

I've looked around on here for hours and have seen someone bought a Silla 2 row aluminum radiator and I liked it but the thing that sold me on the Champion one is that the fill neck is billet welded and not stamped in. Also I saw that it was mentioned on here that 3 row is bad... but I took the chance anyways.

After putting it in and replacing coolant, hoses, and thermostat (stock temp 195) I drove it around for a few hours down the freeway and all around town and the temp stuck around 10degrees cooler according to the stock temp gauge with mechanical fan. So far it seems to be working good.

Along with the radiator, I also got an electric fan and hooked that up yesterday it turns on at 200 and off at 180 and seems to work awesome hoping for better highway milage but I'll find out soon.

(last time I posted pics they were blocked to lower members I apologize for all the links)

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m111/sergeantspud/Radiator/DSCN0507.jpg
The welds are actually pretty nice looking.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m111/sergeantspud/Radiator/DSCN0509.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m111/sergeantspud/Radiator/DSCN0515.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m111/sergeantspud/Radiator/DSCN0506.jpg
Picture of the mounts that I made, they fit quite well.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m111/sergeantspud/Radiator/DSCN0514.jpg
The mounted fan

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m111/sergeantspud/Radiator/DSCN0518.jpg
Another of the mounted fan

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m111/sergeantspud/Radiator/DSCN0519.jpg
The switch that is a "manual off" I will be adding a "manual on" and a LED light to show when the fan is on or off.

And heres a link to an album with the rest of the pictures
Radiator pictures by sergeantspud - Photobucket

Sooo questions comments? :D
 
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#40 ·
That's a GEN II Novak. I bought mine back in 2005 and i think basically, they sold me a Griffin radiator. They switched to your model sometime thereafter.

This new Champion I put in this week is very nice. I like it a lot. I'll post up pics soon. No epoxy, high quality. I am very happy with the $250 price, too.
 
#49 ·
the argument goes something like this:

the air heats up every time it passes a core row because the fluid is obviously much hotter than the surrounding air. the more rows the air passes, the more it heats up till its on the backside of the radiator.

so theoretically, by the time air reaches the 3rd row, its already as hot as the fluid, so it serves minimal purpose. but that 3rd row takes up room, meaning the 1st and 2nd rows have been reduced in size by some amount, so their efficiency has also been reduced. same ideas apply to 1 row radiators vs 2 row.

I say as long as the radiator does its job and the engine stays cool under extreme operating conditions in a hot climate, does it really matter if the radiator is a 3 row or 2 row?
 
#57 ·
its not like our jeeps are meant for performance anyways so i think the 3 row will work just fine then.
the Jeep is actually one of the most demanding engine cooling applications. the hood is flat and has zero vents for exhausting hot air...resulting in very hot under-hood temps. now, couple that with driving slow over rocks or sand which absorbs and holds tremendous amounts of heat, so warm air may actually rise into the engine compartment from below, trapping the hot air created by the engine against the hood. The slow driving means there is virtually no airflow coming into the engine compartment to force this hot air out. Then add on a 100*F day and you running the A/C or towing a small trailer...and you've got yourself a receipt for rapid overheating.
 
#55 ·
Lots of misconceptions here I see...

J.B. hit the nail on the head regarding fan shrouds.

Loose the shroud, you're creating eddies within the core that make hot spots and significantly weaken the tubes.

Also... if you've got to run your fan when you're doing highway speeds... you've got something significantly wrong with airflow and cooling... The fan(s) on ALL factory vehicles (I'm not talking about a supermodified sand-rail here...) are used when the vehicle is immobile. When the vehicle is in motion, the air passing over the fins is what cools it. If the vehicle stops, the fan is used to keep the air moving over the fins and help the radiator do it's job.

Regarding 'rows' 'cores' and 'passes'... you've got mixed info here.

The core of a radiator has tubes in it. Connected to the tubes are fins which wick the heat away from the tubes.
This is an image of the TANK END of a 3-row radiator core, with the header plate still attached.


Notice there are 3, parallel tubes per course. Assuming that each of the tubes is approximately 1" in width, the thickness of this core would be ABOUT 3".


Here is a 2-row core. Assuming that each of these tubes is 1.5" in width, you still have a 3" core. Fewer rows, but the same thickness profile. Alternatively, each of these tubes could be 1" and you'd have a 2" core... Keep in mind, I have sold radiators that have been up to 6-row... (about 4 inches thick)

Now... all this row/core stuff is TOTALLY different than "passes". A radiator for a Jeep is typically single pass... this means there are no baffles in the tanks directing the flow of coolant. Hot coolant comes in at one tank and cooler coolant goes out at the other tank.

In a 2-pass radiator, you would have your inlet and outlet on the same tank. In a 3-pass radiator, your inlet and outlet are on opposite tanks again. The "pass" refers to how many times the coolant passes across the core. a 2-pass, the coolant flows like a big letter C. in a 3-pass it makes a zig-zag.

This is the best example I can give regarding how a 'pass' works in a rad core:

Imagine the 180* turns at the end as a radiator tank with a baffle in it. The coolant doesn't go in on one side and come out on the other, it goes in and zig-zags back and forth across the core. In a multi-core radiator, a 3-pass setup is desirable as it gives the coolant MORE of a chance to decrease in temp.

This also brings up ANOTHER issue... how much cooling is TOO MUCH cooling? Are you running a big bored out engine, chugging up steep hills with massive tires and street-gears?... you probably want a bigger radiator with multiple cores and passes and a pusher/puller fan setup... Do you drive your rig on the highway and play weekend warrior too? The stock rad will almost definitely be 100% all you need.

Go cooling the engine too much, you'll wear out your t-stat prematurely and do some funky things to the engine... think what would happen if every time the stat opened, that 210* engine got flushed with 110* coolant... then the stat closes and bam, it's back up to 210*, then flooded again with 110* coolant... Lotta stress on the innards and seals. If your rad is too big, it cools too much. There's a reason why the big f-350's run a radiator that's the size of a jeep hood and why the honda accord runs a radiator that's the size of an MG midget's door.

I've also read some comments about folks getting their new rads without epoxy on them. I'm not aware of ANY all-aluminum radiator that uses ANY epoxy anywhere on them. At least not any that are worth the average rate of an aluminum rad! Most plastic-aluminum radiators (typical nowadays and the stock selection for the newer Wranglers) do have epoxy on them holding the header plate to the core. Remember, the core is just the fins and tubes. The header plate is what the tank attaches to and what the tubes go through, into the tank. Typically those tube-ends are epoxy'd into the header plate.

On the flip-side, copper/brass radiators use a brass tank and copper core. The tubes are soldered into the header plate and the tanks are soldered to the head plates. The filler neck is also usually soldered into the tank along with any nipples for overflow, ect.

Copper/brass radiators are fairly inexpensive to repair as long as you know of a good and REPUTABLE shop. For folks in the greater Denver metro area, I highly recommend Ed from Gold Star Radiator on south broadway for repairs. He's right across the street from Performance Radiator. (Used to work there)

If anyone in that area is interested in the details of how all this stuff works and actually see some hands-on examples (they have cross-cut core samples of ALL kinds at the front counter) stop by and talk to Bruce, Joe or Ruben at Performance.... usually Saturdays are slow so they'd love a chance to chit-chat. :)

They can explain exactly why hotspots are bad and show examples of tubes that have burned through, tanks that have blown apart from steam pockets, even what happens inside a cooling system when you use tap water instead of distilled water. They've got little tanks displaying the differences in coolant and what it does to the metal, plus tanks that have buckets of white dust in them from the minerals in tap water.

Anyway... while the all-aluminum rads look really pretty, I wouldn't suggest them as a way to go when it comes to a Jeep. If you want a rugged upgrade for your rig, go with copper/brass. If you blow a tube on a trail, a pinch with some pliers and small pocket-torch and a piece of solder will seal it up enough to get you home and probably into the next week!

Last I knew, most of us don't carry tig welders on a trailride and as much as I love working on my rig... pulling and replacing my radiator once or twice a summer isn't an idea of fun to me.

My upgraded rad will definitely be copper/brass when the stock one needs to be replaced.

Wow... ok, rant off! :)
 
#65 ·
Lots of misconceptions here I see...

J.B. hit the nail on the head regarding fan shrouds.

Loose the shroud, you're creating eddies within the core that make hot spots and significantly weaken the tubes.
I'm lost here... why would all of the OEMs use a fan shroud if it causes those problems?

Edit: Nevermind. I realized I totally misunderstood your comment after I went back and re-read J.B.'s comment.

The shroud is of paramount importance. :thumbsup:
 
#59 ·
This is all dependent upon your application. If you have a high-flow cooling system with potentially an upgraded water pump, a multiple-pass radiator will do you good. The coolant moves so quickly, that it doesn't experience sufficient temperature drop from one side to the other on a single-pass radiator.

Dependent upon the speed of the airflow and/or exposure of the core to flowing air would determine how many rows. If you've got a pusher and puller fan and the rad will be mounted between the roll-bars on the back of the Jeep that's typically trailered and is a rock crawler, I'd say go with a 4 or 5 core radiator.

For medium and light duty use, most likely, going thicker (or increasing the rows) will hurt more than hinder, though the difference initially will probably be minimal. Things like shortened coolant life and cooling system component life would be my concern.

Performance Radiator part number 1682CBR for their copper/brass stock replacement is only 200(ish) bucks, with free shipping if you pay with a CC. The standard plastic/aluminum "like-OE" part# is 1682. That's 130ish bucks, same shipping situation.

For 70 bucks more, you're getting a much more rigid radiator with a copper core and brass tanks (not plastic tanks) that will dent and take a good hit under pressure at operating temp, without blowing out. (just for another benefit to CBR rads... :D )

The all aluminums... not in stock and over 500 bucks...
 
#58 ·
Unlimited is very correct. This jeep is the only vehicle ive owned with cooling issues. the under hood temps i had were crazy. I would burn my hand grabbing the hood prop rod. I installed the gen right hood vents and that brought down the underhood temps significantly. (not my motor temps) Nothing is burning hot anymore.

Ive been trying different things and my next experiment is a 3 row aluminum rad from champion. thankfully they are just a few minutes away and im gonna go to the shop and check it out. anyone have any questions they want me to ask them??? post up or pM me. ill be going this week sometime.
 
#60 ·
Thanks for the info everybody. So....If I understand this correctly, (I have a daily driver, weekend playin machine) My first and cheapest option is the OEM plastic head, aluminum core. The second option, (better) would be the copper/brass one for 70 bucks more. ????? Is that the only two I should be looking at, other than the $500 all aluminum?
 
#62 ·
Great pics of the project. I especially love the Mountain Dew and various Hostess wrappers in the work area. Must have been a late night.... [:)]
 
#64 ·
yes. it forces more air to be pulled (or pushed) through the radiator. otherwise the fan blade will be "flinging" air parallel to it's rotation, and not pulling as much through the radiator.

I may be going an alum radiator and electric fan route. If i do, i will most likely get this radiator and the biggest SPAL fan i can fit. SPAL doesn't have shrouds to fit jeeps, so i'll be making my own, most likely out of sheet metal, and use small machine screws (bolts) to hold the fan in place.
 
#70 ·
You do know that your STOCK radiator is aluminum, right?
So going with the copper/brass could cause cooling issues.? There are just too many options out there. I am beginning to think I should just buy another stock plastic/aluminum and just know that it will eventually leak at the top, but my engine will stay cool and not too cool.
 
#74 ·
Whew, ok... It's been a few hours since I've read this thread so, let me go back to clarify some things...

Stock rad for wranglers is PLASTIC tank, aluminum headers and aluminum core.

An upgrade I'd recommend for any weekend warrior jeeper would be a CBR (Copper/Brass) radiator.

Copper/Brass would not cause cooling issues as long as it is the correct radiator for the application. Sure, if you've got an 01 TJ with a 351 windsor in it, the stock radiator probably isn't going to cover your needs.

Performance radiator's site is www.performanceradiator.com . It redirects to usaradiator.com which is their online company.

When I looked up a part for use as an example, I looked up my own rig... since we're in the TJ forum, I looked up my TJ (02). The 06 TJ's radiator is coming up as a different part number, only available as a plastic/aluminum from their online store. I'm certain that you could get a CSF or Nissen part ordered that is CBR. I've not heard great things about CSF, but I know Nissen is pretty good stuff. Same with Behr.

You're right about my wording being off with the shroud! I apologize. Keep the fan shroud ON. BY LOOSING the shroud, you're creating eddies that cause hot spots. ;) There, we go, thats a little better!

Lastly, Purple Pig... to answer your confusion... The stock radiator will do you just fine for what you're doing. If you want an upgrade, go with a copper/brass. It's much easier to repair (The stock ones just need to be thrown away if you bugger them up... think of the stock rad as 'disposable' and it's easier to understand.) The CBR radiators are also much more rigid and will take more abuse than their plastic/aluminum counterparts.

So, yes... ESPECIALLY if your stock radiator is in working shape, replace it with the copper/brass and hang the plastic/aluminum one up on your shop wall. Then, if you DO take a stick through the core of your CBR and you have to get it fixed, you drop in your PAL rad, get your CBR fixed, and swap em back out. Usually something like that could be done in a day. It's even possible for you to fix some of the smaller dings and holes yourself with basic plumbing soldering knowledge.

If you're thinking of doing circle-track or considering having your jeep as a mall-crawler/show rig... oh hells yes, buy the really shiny, all-aluminum radiator! They look MINT and do a good job cooling... but man, they're soft and EXPENSIVE... not only to buy, but to fix as well...

Hope that clears some things up! Sorry, I'm not always concise with my words! :)
 
#76 ·
Been there done that on the copper Radiator Barn special. It didn't work worth a crap and ended up cracking at the bottom tank so advising folks to go with a $175 copper replacement is in my experience, not very good.

As for aluminum radiators having durability issues.... aluminum radiators are stock from the factory which means they were subjected to Jeeps' durability testing. Yes they can leak at the tank but then that can be repaired by anybody with a pair of channel locks and a gasket. My Novak aluminum radiator has been in my Jeep over 3 years now with NO problems. Its fits, its clean and frankly, unless I roll my Jeep and crush it or push the fan into it, I seriously doubt that it is going to cause me anymore problems than the STOCK ALUMINUM radiator did. (caps for emphasis) There are more than a few trail fixes for leaking radiators which do not care what the metal involved is.
 
#83 ·
Been there done that on the copper Radiator Barn special. It didn't work worth a crap and ended up cracking at the bottom tank so advising folks to go with a $175 copper replacement is in my experience, not very good.
The only rebuttal I have for your comment is, if you buy cheapo-depot specials, you'll probably get cheapo-depot special performance out of them...

Buy a quality part and you'll most likely get quality performance out of that part.

As for aluminum radiators having durability issues.... aluminum radiators are stock from the factory which means they were subjected to Jeeps' durability testing. Yes they can leak at the tank but then that can be repaired by anybody with a pair of channel locks and a gasket. My Novak aluminum radiator has been in my Jeep over 3 years now with NO problems. Its fits, its clean and frankly, unless I roll my Jeep and crush it or push the fan into it, I seriously doubt that it is going to cause me anymore problems than the STOCK ALUMINUM radiator did. (caps for emphasis) There are more than a few trail fixes for leaking radiators which do not care what the metal involved is.
You're absolutely right. Plastic/Aluminum radiators are great! They obviously are or just about every single auto manufacturer on the planet wouldn't be using them! You're also right that unless you do something pretty aggressive to your rig, that radiator will probably be 100% fine for your application.

My comments suggesting an upgrade to a copper/brass radiator instead of an "ALL aluminum" (keep in mind, all alum and PAL are two COMPLETELY different beasts) were based upon the person's interest in an all aluminum upgrade. If they were intending on showing their rig or basically wanting/needing the extra "Bling" under the hood, then an all aluminum with billet cap and diamond-studded mounting bolts are definitely the way to go!

But, for half the price, a do-it-yourself'er could upgrade the durability of their stock rad by replacing it with a repairable CBR part. The stock PAL rads are not something that should be repaired and expected to offer continued reliable service.
 
#77 ·
gosh why does everyone like electric fans? ive heard more bad things about them and the pain the are to install than i have leaving the stock belt fan in...

does it really matter that getting an all aluminum radiator you should also get an electric fan
 
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