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So you want a Tummy Tuck...

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#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
So you want a Tummy Tuck

I am aware there is a thread out there similar to this in the fact that it list some of the facts about several skids on the market, but this one is complete and it just for setting up a tummy tuck. This thread will be devoted to the TJ, as this is the TJ Technical Forum and that is what most have on here. LJ's are a bit different when it comes to driveshaft requirements, but most principles still apply.

Everyone thinks they need a tummy tuck these days. They are very useful off road and even make a TJ look better because you are no longer seeing the ugly shovel. A tummy tuck takes more than just several hundred bucks to buy one, there are other things that have to be dealt with. Most decide they don't need one when they figure out how much it will cost. The stock skid not the stoutest, but will hold up to mild wheeling, and comes in at 41.5 lbs.

Depending on the Jeep you have and which route you intend on going you might need one or more of these for your tummy tuck:

1" Body Lift- All depends on how much hammering (or 'modification') you want to do on the transmission tunnel. There are various routes to go with body lifts which include JKS ($135), Daystar, Performance Accessories, Currie, etc. It seems like everyone is scared to do one of these[, whether it be due to looks or difficulty of installation.] I have seen at least 30 posts asking if they can get away with doing such and such skid without one. A lot of people that are concerned with performance think that every Jeep should have came with one from the factory. The 1" body lift is hardly noticeable and will allow other mods like a high clearance gas tank skid. They also help lift the body without changing the COG very much, reducing the amount of bumpstop you need to clear a given tire size.

Motor Mount Lift (MML)- Is needed when doing any high clearance t-case skid on a Jeep that has a suspension lift of 2" or more. Stockers can usually get away with out it, but if you are doing a tummy tuck chances are you aren't keeping the stock suspension height. The reason this needs to be done is when you are stuffing your tranny and tcase farther up you want to tilt the output shaft of the tcase down to help with the geometry you are messing with. By bringing the front of the engine up, you will be able to tilt the output shaft of the tcase down. There are various ways to lift your motor which include JKS(spacers-$60), Brown Dog(full replacement-$84), and M.O.R.E(full replacement-$139). If you choose new motor mounts instead of the spacers, get the rubber bushing versions to reduce engine vibrations. Poly bushings **can** transmit more engine vibrations, but they greatly reduce engine movement and will not degrade as fast as rubber. Rubber's lifespan is usually a few decades...so its your choice.

Double Cardan Driveshaft- Is needed when doing any skid on a Jeep that has been lifted 1.5- 2" or more via its suspension. Stockers can usually get away without it, but if you are doing a tummy tuck chances are you aren't keeping the stock suspension height. Will be needed, Rubicon or not. There are a few out there (Currie, Teraflex, ect, but only one that I would go with- Tom Woods which run around $315 (Quadratec).

Slip Yoke Eliminator (SYE)- Is needed when doing any skid on a Jeep that has been lifted 1.5-2" or more via its suspension. Stockers can usually get away without it, but if you are doing a tummy tuck chances are you aren't keeping the stock suspension height. If you have a Rubicon, you will not need one of these. Many people say that the Rubicon already has an SYE, but that is incorrect. It would have to have a slip yoke in the first place to elimininate it - Rubicons have fixed flange rear outputs. There are several good kits on the market such as Advance Adapters ($270 Quadratec), JB Conversions($300-$400), Rubicon Express ($330)

Rear upper adjustable control arms- Will be needed to rotate your pinion upward. There will be some fine tuning to eliminate driveshaft vibrations. Rokmen and Currie are the only ones I would consider when dropping money on them as of right now. Rokmen-$249. Currie- ($229)

More info on SYE/CV shafts & pinion angle: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/what-cv-shaft-why-do-i-want-one-854790/

CV trackbar bracket-This angled bracket will be needed for your trackbar when rotating the pinion. With out this bracket your stock or adjustable trackbar will bind. Rubicon Express-$70

Rear lower shock mount extenders- When rotating your pinion up, you will find that the can of your shock (if you have piston down, you may not have this problem) will rub the axle. Some extensions like those from Currie-$30 will get the job done. If you're looking for maximum flex, this is a good time to consider shock mount relocation to use long travel shocks - read here: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/low-lift-long-shocks-diy-shock-shifters-whats-advantage-852221/

Spring perch modications- Will sometimes have to be done, but I personally have not seen a Jeep that has absolutely needed it. Rotating the pinion will cause the spring sit a bit different- resulting in the spring trying to arc...meaning the bumpstops will no longer align. This mod is not absolutely necessary with smaller lift heights, and mainly helps suspension geometry on taller lifts.
Read Humbolt's write up: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/outboarding-rear-shocks-upper-spring-bucket-relocation-929056/
Also see this thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/rear-spring-relocator-kit-856163/

Transfer case bracket- Anyone that knows transfer case brackets know that Novak ($150) is in the top of the game. There are others out there like the one from Advance Adapters or Skyjacker that are cheaper alternatives, but just doesn't work like the Novak. The stock shift lever can often be used when a TT is install in conjunction with a MML & BL, since these keep the drivetrain and accessory angles as close to stock as possible.

Skids

Kilby- I really haven't seen many people run this skid, but looks to be well made. Skid is made from 3/16" bare steel (you will need to paint or powdercoat it). Skid can be done without a body lift. Incorporates Rubicon locker pump mount. Clearance gains?
Weight- 38lbs
Price- $340

AEV- I haven't seen one complaint with this skid. Skid is made from 1/4'' gusseted steel and 2.75" more clearance is possible with this skid, but where the tcase sits it has less clearance. Uses a super low-profile tranny mount. Skid comes with flat bolts that cannot hang up on rocks and comes powdercoated. Skid can be done without a body lift, but 42RLE auto owners might need to 'modify' the firewall/trans tunnel. Incorporates Rubicon locker pump mount.
Weight- ?
Price- $529

Rokmen- Beautiful skid, best tig welding I've seen for mass production Skid is made from 1/4" laser cut bare steel (you paint it) that is CNC formed. Gains of 2.25" will be seen. Uses stock tranny mount. Body lift is suggested. I have seen the back of this skid bend from mild wheeling, but this skid provides one of the best all around deals.
Weight-?
Price- $344. +$20 for Rubicon locker pump mount.

Clayton- This skid uses the 2 piece design. I haven't seen many people use this skid. It might have something to do with it only advertising .5" gain for 97-02 and 1" gain for 03-06 Wranglers. Uses 3/16" steel for the cradle and 1/4" for the skid plate. Comes with a finish, but not specific. Works with their long arm set up if you ever decide to go that route.

Price- $475
Weight- ?

Skyjacker- Zinc coated skid made from 3/16" steel with gusseted corners. Comes with shifter bracket. Gain in clearance is not specified. Only made for 97-02 Wranglers. Body lift required
Price- $410 (Quadratec)
Weight-?

Teraflex- Up to 2 3/8" gain. Made from 3/16" steel. Body lift recommended for Rubicon. Comes with finish, but not specific. Comes with a 5/8" MML.
Price- $450 + Rubicon compressor mount for Rubicons
Weight- 79 lbs

Under Cover Fabworks- Made for 97-06 Wranglers, the skid is fabricated from 3/16" thick carbon steel plate (with optional upgrade to 1/4" plate). The parts were designed in 3D CAD software and laser cut then bent on a CNC press brake. The UCF Transfer Case Skid Plate is reinforced in the middle of the skid from one side to the other with a stiffening channel/transmission mount. The front and rear edges are ramped to increase strength and aid in sliding over obstacles. Clearance gains of about 2" over the factory skid plate will be seen. The total height of this skid is about 2". Skid comes bare and does not include hardware.
Price- $169 for 3/16 and $229 for 1/4"
Weight- 60lbs (Im guessing for the 1/4")
New:
Under Cover Fabworks has released a skid that has the exact characteristics of the steel skids they produce, except they will be offered in 304 Stainless and 6061-T6 Aluminum.
Price- $329: 1/4" Aluminum
Weight-26 lbs

33 Engineering- As far as I know they are out of business, if you can still find one it is the 1 of only skid made that can be dropped without supporting the tranny. It uses a crossmember and a skid that is bolted to it. 2.75" of added clearance are said to be gained from the skid. that was ordered bare or powdered. 1" body lift required.

Never buy anything directly from these guys or anything that will be drop shipped from them. Buy from people that have the skid in stock or do not buy at all.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f176/offroadtoystore-33-engineering-kaput-so-my-dough-811839/
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f176/dont-buy-anything-offroadtoystore-com-809307/index2.html
Offroad Toy Store Reviews

Price-?
Weight-?

Jeepmedic-. Although no longer in business, you may be able to find one used. Skid is made from 1/4" gusseted steel with quality powdercoating. Gains of 2.25" will be seen from this beefy skid. Reuses stock trans mount and includes Rubicon locker pump mount. This was regarded as the best skid on the market at the time JeepMedic closed.

Price - ~$200-400 used in good condition
Weight-?

Goferit- Im not sure if these guys are still around. There isn't much info about these skids and not many people run them. Steel thickness? Clearance?
Price?
Weight?

Savvy Offroad- Everyone is talking about this skid. Will be made from aluminum and there has been word that it will be a completely flat skid. This not only will have the highest clearance, it will have a chance (with the UCF skid) to be the lightest of any skid listed. Savvy has some competitive pricing so I like most people I can wait to see this thing. You will most defiantly have to run a body lift if this skid is flat or do some serious modding to the tub.
Clearance gain-?
Price-?
Weight-?

*Exhaust mod- For every skid listed you will likely have to mod your exhaust so it will not contact the skid and or the lower control arm. Some people can get this done by themselves while others need to go to an exhaust shop. Going to an exhaust shop usually isn't too expensive for this fairly simple mod.

*BL or No-Some skids say body lift required or recommended, but can be done with out with enough hammering on the tranny tunnel as stated in the beginning. While most skids can be done without a body lift, you are tucking the transfer case closer to the body. There will be more noise as well as more heat coming from the exhaust as well as the tcase transferred to the floor board. Keep in mind - with a tummy tuck you are lifting the entire drivetrain up 2" or more - meaning you're changing the output shaft angle and you need to make room for the relocated components. The easiest way to do this is a 1" MML + BL.

*Prices are from the manufacturer unless stated otherwise

Do the math on the products you need for your specific Jeep, can you afford a Tummy Tuck?? Do you play in the rocks enough to justify one? If there are any errors or anything that needs to be added, let me know. Thanks. Thank you Unlimited04 for your help.
 
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#256 ·
I'd like to see someone strap a 120 lbs knap sack to their back and then climb some sort of obstacle made of piled up rocks and logs that are all wet. Then if they make it in the first place, come down and drop a 40 lbs bag of deer corn instead and see if they think maybe less weight would be better...
 
#262 ·
I don't know exactly how much parts weigh but it seems many of the parts are being added to the jeep such as sliders and corners vs. exchanging parts for lighter ones as in the case of a bumper or skid pan. So would the assumption then be that a jeep would perform better without putting this stuff on in the first place? Since by adding even light parts your increasing the weight?

We are talking about things to protect the body from damage but in order to add them we must damage the body by drilling holes.

I'm new to much of the body protection type stuff and see the merits in the parts but the argument over steel vs. aluminum seems potato patoto. It would seem to me the amount of weight you could save overall by using aluminum would really be of little consequnece to a jeeps overall ability to travers obstacles. If a jeep in 4 low 1st gear trying to climb a hill is unable to do so I just find it hard to believe if you backed it down changed the bumper, skid and rockers from steel to aluminum it is now going to be able to rocket up the hill.

I like the aluminum stuff and the idea of shedding some pounds but in the grand scheme of things is it really an argument?
 
#268 ·
Here's the bottom line and I'm really looking for a way to say this that won't hurt anyone's feelings. So, take it in the spirit it's intended and know that I have no ill intentions whatsoever.

If you believe that weight doesn't matter, then it doesn't. You may never get to the point where you consider your rig to be a bloated pig that stumbles over the trails with the grace and elegance of a 3 legged elephant and there's nary a thing in the world wrong with that.

On the other hand, I didn't jump headfirst into the parts manufacturing business with all that entails to try and convince everyone that they need what I can do. I did it because we have a genuine need for lighter parts that still get the job done because we play where it matters and not everyone does. That doesn't make us better or you worse, it just means we have different needs.

When you get to the point where it matters to you, the products are there for you to take advantage of.

Consider though that you may want to take a nice trip over a trail like the Rubicon which means you typically pack in enough crap to be self sufficient for anywhere from 3-5 days. That means you're loaded to the gills and your rig just lumbers along.

If you save 30 lbs with a gas tank skid, 50 lbs with a belly skid, 30 lbs off a front bumper, 30 off a rear bumper, 80 off your corners and add it all up, it's pretty significant and will make a difference in how your rig handles.
 
#266 ·
Adding all those weight savings would add up though, bumpers, rocker guards, gas tank, belly, corner guards...if you switched all those from steel to aluminum you'd be talking real weight loss and I would expect improved gas mileage and performance.
 
#269 ·
Thats a fair answer and again I am just getting into all this where as many on here are well ahead of me in the knowledge as it relates to certain topics. As I said I do like the products (have already purchased some) I am just trying to wrap my head around if a couple hundred pounds in weight savings translates to such a large performance gain that it would make much difference to the average wheeler. In other words if you had a stock jeep the light body armor would seem of little consequnece to the performance of that vehicle when compared to other mods such as tires axles etc...

Based on your reply I would say to the vast majority of wheelers that weight savings isnt going to be needed or noticable. If however you have taken or are taking your jeep to the edge of its capability and are doing all you can to eek out just a little more performance the weight savings means something.
 
#270 ·
In other words if you had a stock jeep the light body armor would seem of little consequnece to the performance of that vehicle when compared to other mods such as tires axles etc...

Based on your reply I would say to the vast majority of wheelers that weight savings isnt going to be needed or noticable. If however you have taken or are taking your jeep to the edge of its capability and are doing all you can to eek out just a little more performance the weight savings means something.
My apologies for leading you down the garden path. You arrived at precisely the answer I was hoping for.

There is a significant contingent of folks who wheel who never do the "hardcore" stuff because they just aren't into it, but they want to do expedition style stuff. I've wheeled with many of them as they were hanging out with us on the lighter stuff to get their feet wet and improve their skills.

They also wanted to be prepared for any eventuality on their long distance adventures and outfitted themselves accordingly. They bolted on some big heavy bumpers with a Co2 tank, swing-out tire carrier, hi lift and enough recovery gear to rescue an Abrahms tank from a swamp should the need arise. Steel corners and of course they have to have the welded on flares, steel tube fenders up front, steel rock rails and on and on enough that by now I'm sure you have a good mental image.

They were also locked up on 31's because they're not hardcore so they don't need much lift or very big tires. We were just on a simple run up in Big Bear and the rig just struggled over everything because all that weight lowered the rig enough that it hung on everything.

So my question to you is, if you wanted a rig on 31's and wanted to protect it, do you think a lot of extra weight requiring you to lift it higher is better or is less lift and less weight better?
 
#271 ·
is that a trick question?? LOL



For most, corner guards and and rocker guards are not needed. How many people that have those addons have never used them? i would say most of the people that buy them are doing so to look cool, and if its your DD why not put the lighter parts on. If nothing else it will save you gas.


I jsut thought of something, why not make aluminum corner guards and rocker guards out of aluminum tape. Cheaper, lighter and used just as much as most peoples 3/16 or 1/4 inch thick stuff.
 
#273 ·
is that a trick question?? LOL

For most, corner guards and and rocker guards are not needed. How many people that have those addons have never used them?
You really believe that to be the case? If so, I'm so far out of the loop as to not even be on the same planet.

I blew off our stock side steps within an hour of owning our rig and that was on some very mild trails. My first upgrade was a set of rock rails.
 
#272 ·
I hear what your saying, I was simply implying that money would be better spent in other areas prior to arriving at the NEED for lighter body armor. I agree for many it completes a "look". Perhaps at this moment I fall in that category but its also in anticipation of getting my rig to the point where I will need them and in fact use them.
 
#274 ·
undercoverfab said:
Our 3/16" steel skid weight in at 62 lbs. Our 1/4" steel skid weights in at 77 lbs. Our 1/4" aluminum skid weights in at 27lbs.

The alloy of aluminum (6061-t6) we are using has a higher yield strength than A36 steel plate (probably what most people would call "carbon steel") but has a lower ultimate tensile strength. This could be described in simpler terms by saying that assuming an equal thickness steel and aluminum skid plate, the steel skid would start to bend before the aluminum skid; but the aluminum skid would also "fail" before the steel skid.

There are of course other factors to consider when choosing a material, but these are two of the more important properties to look at.

I don't post in threads where my products are mentioned because I don't yet have a vendor star.

Thanks,
Well... I was pretty close with the weight of the steel skid from UCF. I was off by 8lbs which I would account for by saying that the part that crossmember is the same weight in both, and there is no weigh savings there. I like that UCF is at least watching this thread to be able to answer questions from forum members (I don't think it avoids the no soliciting rule either since we are asking for the info).

Now for Blaine... I love the way you describe the reasons for the weight savings in your last 2 posts. They make perfect sense, and go farther than just saying we do this. YOu go to explain why it isn't the right way to go for everyone. With that said, I still think that the weight savings have other uses than in the hardcore rocks (some of your rocks are the size of your rigs, when I first saw that, I never thought it was possible). Since many of our Jeeps spend a lot of time on the road, the extra weight savings helps with vehicle wear and mileage. As for your question, I would rather have a TJ with 31"s on a 2.5" lift rather than a TJ with extra heavy armor lifted 3.25".

I should also address the cost of AL. The difference isn't that much more $$, and the benefits are worth it. Rocker guards aren't useless, my steps have a big dent from dropping them on a rock, and I am considered by other forum members to not actually use my Jeep.
 
#282 ·
I wasn’t really referring to JF people for the most part. How many JK's have you seen with 20's or bigger rims and had serious off-road accessories like winch, bumpers, rockers, ect..


I’ve seen several tj's setup the same way; I would say half of the stuff you sell will never touch a rock, maybe a minivan or Honda, but not rocks.



To anyone that thought I was saying you don’t use your stuff, I was not, unless you don’t.
:thumbsup:
 
#285 ·
I wasn't really referring to JF people for the most part. How many JK's have you seen with 20's or bigger rims and had serious off-road accessories like winch, bumpers, rockers, ect..

I've seen several tj's setup the same way; I would say half of the stuff you sell will never touch a rock, maybe a minivan or Honda, but not rocks.

To anyone that thought I was saying you don't use your stuff, I was not, unless you don't.
:thumbsup:
well for what its worth I have never seen anyone around here with tubes / true rock sliders/ or full corners that didn't wheel their rig....Most guys who just buy cool stuff by Smittybuilt side steps diamond plate small corner guards and bushwacker flairs
 
#288 ·
From what Gerald said (iirc) there will only be 2 different TT kits. There will be one for the 97-2002, and then one for 03-06. The TJ and LJ ones will be the same, the only difference is the different years. That is of course only if I am recalling what he said correctly.
 
#290 ·
I don't want to jump into this fray but, I would like to offer an opinion which is like......."everyone has one". I started late in life with this hobby/sport/addiction/fanaticism.:laugh: I, for one wish, that I had waited for the Savvy TT instead of the AEV/Nth TT. My heep is becoming a pig and I think less wgt is better. If/when the TT shows up, it will be a good one! I am not disappointed with their fuel tank skid, corners, tub rubs and LEDs. If, I knew that the TT was in progress, I would have waited for it versus the Nth setup. JMHO
 
#294 ·
SALE
If anyone is thinking about an Under Cover Fab skid, do it now, they are having a sale. There is a code that is only good for a few more days for 10% off. Check them out!
 
#298 ·
I am very interested in the UCF skids however there are just too many grey areas:

- No actual pics of the product on it's own or installed
- Having a hard time determining if the tranny mount points / mount itself are recessed or do the bolt/heads protrude below
- In one of the pics they show a corresponding engine skid, yet i do not see anything like that for sale on the site...
- Where is the company located?
 
#300 ·
Look around, there are plenty of pics with it installed. Dmcastino has one and has pics in his build thread. The tranny mount setup is similar to Rokmen's, it's recessed. You likely saw another engine skid not made by UCF---I'm not seeing what that has to do with UCF. You can bolt almost any engine skid up to any skid with a little work. Don't remember where the company is located but they are easily reachable so you could call and ask. I've dealt with the skid first hand. It's very nice and sells for a great price. If it had been around over a year ago, I would've purchased it over Rokmen's simply for the price savings since it's basically the same thing.
 
#299 ·
-I agree with the lack of pics
-Can't comment on the mounts
-Yes, there is price info. You have to click the drop down for options, and it will add the price.
-It is said here in the thread. Yes, it is handmade here in the USA.
 
#302 ·
#325 ·
Guys, dont be idiots. There are pics all over this tread of the UCF skid, both steel and alumium. However there arent any of the stainless....Yet...

Unlimited04 has already covered most of this but I would like to say it to. The location of the company is also there. Go look on their website... if you want to talk to them, there is a number listed. Its so much easier to do it over the phone. Dont be a cheap skate, if your buying a couple hundred dollar skid, what is 2 or 3 dollars in long distance calls going to hurt?? Wouldnt it be better to know what you are buying? Use your cell phone it will probably be cheaper.

Those of you who are telling UFC how to do their job (gecko) could you please refrain?? If you need to know somthing ask it, please dont give them your marketing advise... if they need it they will ask.

In summary, there are pics, make a phone call, most of the things you want have already been covered.
 
#326 ·
Guys, dont be idiots. There are pics all over this tread of the UCF skid, both steel and alumium. However there arent any of the stainless....Yet...

Unlimited04 has already covered most of this but I would like to say it to. The location of the company is also there. Go look on their website... if you want to talk to them, there is a number listed. Its so much easier to do it over the phone. Dont be a cheap skate, if your buying a couple hundred dollar skid, what is 2 or 3 dollars in long distance calls going to hurt?? Wouldnt it be better to know what you are buying? Use your cell phone it will probably be cheaper.

Those of you who are telling UFC how to do their job (gecko) could you please refrain?? If you need to know somthing ask it, please dont give them your marketing advise... if they need it they will ask.

In summary, there are pics, make a phone call, most of the things you want have already been covered.
x2, well said. It did come over a bit ranty, but it gets the point across.
 
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