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63K views 80 replies 37 participants last post by  DominicR 
#1 ·
About once a week when I shift into first gear, the jeep pops out of first gear and goes into neutral. I spoke to the dealership and they have never heard of this before. I have an appointment next monday, but I would like some of your opinions and input please. 2009 jeep wrangler x, standard under 4,000 miles.

thanks in advance
Shane
 
#2 ·
I responded in another forum to a similar issue as follows:

The 1/2 synchronizer sleeve (in which the 1/2 shift fork rides) moves towards first gear sliding over the synchro hub starting the synchronization process (synchro ring will be indexed and the cone will start picking up the cone of the first gear) Once the speed is equalized the coupler teeth will engage.. These teeth flanks have a back taper to assure positive engagement lock whilst transferring torque..
JOG (jump out of gear) can be created with following main conditions...
1) not enough spline (dogteeth) back-taper on synchro ring and coupler..(Manufacturing quality)
2) not FULL engagement during the shift cycle.. (shifting too fast or shifter boot interference)
3) the first gear has a triple cone synchronizer system and the floating synchro ring might drag too much (particularly in very cold weather..)
4) shift rail detent ball springs too weak (broken or worn out)

Everything has to be in balance to avoid "hard" shifts, (you still want to shift smoothly from 1-2 etc..) on one hand and to avoid JOG on the other hand..

The negative back taper is designed to create a lock whilst torque is transferred, as soon as you coast (reduce torque) the lock becomes less and with a bump it might do a JOG .

Just do a slow shift (be sure it is fully engaged) into first and get moving, keep a constant acceleration and maintain a slight load on the shifter towards second gear.. You will feel the "bite" from the back taper...if something is not right you will detect an easy slide out..

Bring the acceleration to almost coast and try this again..with a slight force the shifter can be moved out of first..

Just trying to give some background music..

Hope this helps..:thumbsup:
 
#3 ·
I had this same issue with my 07 wrangler. When I spoke to the dealer they gave me a blank look ... then said they never heard of that ... then when the vehicle could not reproduce the symptom the dealer said they could do nothing because they could not duplicate.

In my recent experiences with the service center if they can't find a tsb or can get a code when they hook it up to the starscan you are out of luck. You can explain till you are blue in the face but most often if they can not duplicate the issue will not be fixed.
 
#5 ·
Very few codes in the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) are set for a manual transmission.. I believe some transmission temp/ overheating control...But nothing of the shift nature like you have with auto transmissions. For the rest your average dealership knows very little about manual transmission..

The best way is, once the failure mode has been reproduced, to replace the transmission and put a new or a factory refurbished unit in with the same warranty coverage. You have to insist your dealer takes this "replacement" route, don't let them disassemble and try to find what is wrong.. You need lots of special tools and gear, spline measuring equipment ($$$$)..

With today's sophisticated assembly process and special dedicated equipment, a dealer will fall short in assuring the assembly quality required..

Even repairs in the OEM transmission assembly plants are limited.. Normal a full tear down and re assembly over the assembly line(s) with new parts are performed..

Sorry for the additional background music..;)
 
#4 ·
I have also had the same issue with my 08. My dealer called chrysler direct and found that the inner boot is the problem. They "adjusted" it but it never fully fixed the problem. I even went for a test drive with the Shop foreman but could not replicate the problem. I just make sure that I feel first gear fully engage. If you don't feel the "click" then it's going to pop out. Also try the 2 to 1 shift at a complete stop or very close to it. One last thing, I have noticed that if the outer shift boot slides down some, that 1st might pop out. I havn't had the problem in about 4 months now just paying a little more attention when I put it into 1st.:2thumbsup:
 
#6 ·
hey guys thanks for the replys, I just hope the dealership is willing to work with me, any thing that you think I could ask them or demand in a nice way that would be to my benefit would be greatly appreciated. I really would like to give the dealership the benefit of the doubt, but I dont have much faith. The service manager wants to ride with me to see if the problem can be duplicated or observed. I just have the feeling that I about to be given the run around. anyway thanks for all replys and letting me vent.

Shane
 
#7 ·
317 - 2 ...this is a blowout!!

When is someone at DC going to get the hint that for the first time in history an auto tranny is embarassing a manual in reliability and performance.
 
#8 ·
I've had the same issue (2007 JK). Never brought it in to the dealership for them to fix because it was so random. This may sound stupid but do you keep your hand on the shifter knob when you drive? In my older Wranglers it was never a problem but it is in this one. Now when I shift I make sure its in then take my hand off (unless im in gear 2, 4, or 6. Doesn't pop out from the bottom I've noticed). Not a great technical answer, but it seems to be working for me.
 
#9 ·
Indeed it doesn't take much to push the shifter out of first whilst you have a slight reduction in acceleration.... If all is OK it will be hard to do in full acceleration mode.
I always keep my hand on the shifter whilst in first (with some forward pressure, old habits are hard to die..:thumbsup: )
 
#11 ·
This happened to me for the first time this morning! Scared the crap out of me because I was all wrapped up in the song I was listening to, LOL. I think it happened because I had my hand resting on the shifer in preparation for the shift into 2nd. Now I keep my hand off the shifter whenever possible, except when I'm in 2nd, 4th, 6th. I hope that never happens again
 
#12 ·
I know this is the JK side, but my LJ has done it to me several times now too. I just bought it a month or so ago and it is a little aggravating. Mine pops out after a stop as I'm starting in first, not going between 1-2. I like the gear ratio of the 6 spd, but the whole trans doesn't feel as tight as my YJ does. Oh well, I suppose I'll just keep firm pressure on it until I shift into 2nd or just start in 2nd. Good luck with your trannies too.
 
#13 ·
I've been having the same issue. It now seems to happen several times a day.

At first I thought it was my shifting habits ingrained from driving large trucks where you tend to put pressure on the shifter preparing for the next shift. I intentionally kept my hand off the shifter for a while to see if it still happens and it does. If you are taking off on a slight grade and have to modulate the clutch a bit to avoid a stall, it almost always pops out of gear as soon as the drive train goes "slack". Hard to describe, but that's the best way to explain it.

My dealer also gave me the blank stare, but I'm taking it in this week for the issue.
 
#14 ·
Be sure there are no interferences of the shifter stub (bottom of shift lever) with surrounding hardware (boot etc..) As I stated earlier the lock in gear is maintained by negative tapers on splines and coupler dog teeth..
As soon as you have a reduction in driveline torque the lock in effect of the negative tapers will reduce and in the event the taper is marginal (manufacturing quality) a pop out will occur.. Hence back to the dealer and ask for a replacement tranny..
Don't let them open up transmission. They don't have the proper tools and measuring equipment to diagnose this JOG (jump out of gear)
Good Luck with your dealer and go in as an "informed customer". Their "blank" stare might change into...... who knows... good luck..:thumbsup:
 
#15 ·
My 09 Rubicon has had this issue since it had maybe 2k miles on it. it only has five now but this happens to me 3-4 times a week I'd say. It happened to me this morning in the middle of an intersection which reminded me to check on here.

I used to have an 08 Sahara and never once had this problem and I know my shifting habits have not changed.

I know USAntigoon offered some good advice to keep an eye on it but I want this problem fixed. I don't want to just try extra hard to make sure it doesn't happen. I've never had this problem in my girlfriend's 08 X which I drive regulary as well. she was shocked when she experienced it for the first time last week.

I'll be furious if the dealer isn't helpful. has anyone here had luck with the dealer? I'd like to bring in information like this to help them out. I feel like if this problem continues it's going to cause some long term damage and I don't want to revisit this when I'm out of warranty
 
#16 ·
Just tell the dealer that you don't have enough positive coupler lock in first gear.. and it needs to be fixed.. I suggest you ask him to take the outer sifter boot off then realign the inner boot assembly over the shifter bracket/sled to which it is installed..I assume that the latter are add on items by the Chrysler assembly plant in their trans dress up line..I am sure this is just a bolt-on process without any positive lock (dowels etc..) My be this needs to be replaced and/or re-aligned.. I was going with these "repair" first before they start taken the tranny apart..!!!
Transmission Manufacturers know very well the ramifications of JOG (jumping out of gear) hence a lot of safeguards are build in...

With a "healthy" set-up you should feel the positive detent engagement whilst shifting in first..

This was going to be my approach..
 
#20 ·
Just bought my '08 X used with 30K on it. I've had this happen to me two times now. I find that sometimes I press forward and the stick doesn't go fully in gear and if I try to engage it'll pop out when I give it gas.

Should I be worried? I thought this was just normal and that it's supposed to pop out if it's not fully engaged the right way...
 
#22 ·
Thanks, I'm bringing my car into the dealer to get my throw-out bearing replaced so I'll ask them to look at the JOG too. I have a good feeling they're not going to be able to replicate it though...

Does JOG originate from something wrong int he clutch assembly? Maybe when they're replacing my throw-out they'll be able to look for a reason as to why it's jumping out of first...

I only have 5k until my car is out of warranty so I want to get anything I can get fixed as soon as I can.
 
#23 ·
JOG is the result of:
1) synchro couplers not fully engaged (shift rail issues, shifter and/or shifter column interferences, dragging synchro rings, etc )
2) very weak/broken shift rail detent springs
3) lack of negative back taper on coupler teeth and splines (spline off set) these design features will create a positive lock whilst torque is transmitted through the coupled gears after synchronization took place..
 
#24 ·
US - could you help with this as well? Not sure if it's related but I have had JOG issues as well as clutch issues on my 07 JK. I have an additional question about the clutch setup. I hear a "clicking" or "ticking" noise when i press down on my clutch. This is different then the noise I heard before (a "crunching" noise) that was fixed (a clutch plate was being crushed). I was told the JK clutch is cable driven and this could possibly be causing the noise. If that is the case, is it harmfull to the vehicle?

Thanks in advance!
 
#25 ·
Clutch release (throw out) bearing worn or the clutch release lever (the one which pushes against the release brg) worn or deformed which will put a side load onto the release bearing. The latter in full depressed clutch condition might generate a ticking noise in the release bearing...JK clutch is a hydraulic Master/slave set up.....
 
#26 ·
Is popping out of 1st a problem that results from something wrong in the clutch assembly itself?

I'm asking because they're going to replace the whole clutch assembly in my jeep because of problems with the throw-out bearing.

So maybe that will fix my POG problem too?
 
#27 ·
Mine started having this problem this week. It only happens when pulling out going uphill. It's happened a half dozen times now and always nearly gives me a heart attack every time. I guess it's such a pop because of the load that it's under.

Did the OP ever get a answer from the dealer on this?
 
#28 ·
pops out too

My 09 Rubicon started doing this a few weeks ago. it happens about once every 2 days. First I thought I just needed to get used to the clutch on it I guess I was wrong after seeing this post. I have been drive stick for the last 16 years of my life and never had this problem getting used to a clutch....

It pops out just like you all described and sometimes it makes a grinding sound and sometime a bang (The scary one :thumbdown:) )

any news on a recall?
 
#30 ·
I have posted in several forums what is at stake here:
The first important job in analyzing a JOG (Jumping Out of Gear) condition is to separate the problem into two main root cause possibilities.. (assuming proper shifting techniques are applied)
1) is it shift lever interference or bad assembly..(external)
2) is it an internal transmission issue....

I am including a pic from their parts catalog to better depict how interferences can be existing between the different boot assemblies (4-5), the shifter sled bracket (8) and its position onto the transmission case..(as referred in above post #16) Any issue here will affect full engagement travel, hence setting you up for a JOG condition..



I am also following a similar issue in other forums and know of two cases where the removal of the inner boot and the skid plate above the trans (under the floor control bezel) created successful results. (no JOG)

First indications are that the skid plate (#8 above posted pic) is pushing the inner boot hence creating extra interference with the shift lever. (this might get compounded with inner boot stiffness/durometer in very cold weather)
The Jeeper in the meantime has removed the skid plate and inner boot and has driven for more then two weeks without an issue..

As a more permanent fix, I suggested to him to slot the skid plate mounting holes around the studs and retest.. I will keep you updated.. I have some of his pics and will post them as soon as he gives me permission..
 
#31 ·
I'm good on all except the "proper shifting techniques." I've driven everything from 3 speed on the column, to 18 speed road rangers, to Mack Duplex drives, and the only "proper shifting technique" I've ever used was to put the damn thing in gear and drive. If there is some magical shifting technique on this Jeep, then I am trading it on Wednesday. I refuse to own a vehicle that cannot be driven like every other vehicle. That is exactly why I will never own a light duty Cummins later than a 5.9L. Can't idle...what a crock! Tell that to the poor sap trying to sleep in the cab tonight in Montana! Sorry for the rant, I'm just getting really ill with Mopar products (I know, I know, it's a Cummins deal, not a Mopar deal...but Mopar uses these engines knowing the are crap in stock form.)
 
#33 ·
I'm good on all except the "proper shifting techniques." I've driven everything from 3 speed on the column, to 18 speed road rangers, to Mack Duplex drives, and the only "proper shifting technique" I've ever used was to put the damn thing in gear and drive. If there is some magical shifting technique on this Jeep, then I am trading it on Wednesday. I refuse to own a vehicle that cannot be driven like every other vehicle. That is exactly why I will never own a light duty Cummins later than a 5.9L. Can't idle...what a crock! Tell that to the poor sap trying to sleep in the cab tonight in Montana! Sorry for the rant, I'm just getting really ill with Mopar products (I know, I know, it's a Cummins deal, not a Mopar deal...but Mopar uses these engines knowing the are crap in stock form.)
Excellent quote :) 2011 wrangler popping every day out of 2 and 4!
Please don't tell me dealer is going to tell me he never heard of this or I am driving wrong :nono:

I am a first time Jeep owner because I always here they are strong and last for ever Under 1k miles and problems already....

Driving stick 25 years not my problem :nono:
 
#32 ·
Just went throughthis myself, look at post "could not take 1st poping out anymore" . Mine seems better now however my reverse is alittle more stubburn than before but 1st so far is better. I am minus a inner shift boot since they did the work, Im convinced that is on purpose. I still have to get my upper boot replaced because they ripped it that reminds me I need to call tomorow. I am convinced that if you have a JOG it will only get worse as mine did untill it wants to do it all the time. Take it in and have them fix it and I think USAntigoon is on to something with the inner shift boot. It starts with jumping out once or twice when cold untill it damages the shift fork and or synchro untill it is a all the time problem. My best advice remove the inner boot soon and try it see if it makes any diffrence.
 
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