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Thinking of buying a welder

140K views 401 replies 153 participants last post by  mtrdstuck 
#1 ·
Im very much a newbie to the world of welding, but I would really like to get into it since it opens up alot of fabrication doors for me.


I have welded once or twice with a mig welder (wire), it was a hobart handler, ran on 120v

I would like to purchase something with a little more capability, since I hope to build up bumpers and basic bull bars, along with being able to fix up my exhaust.

I am looking into purchasing a lincoln 220v stick welder (since they seem very cheap and have a good reputation)

I do not, however, know how to stick weld, though I have been watching videos.

I am just confused on one thing really, I though you needed argon (or some other gas) being exhausted onto the weld pool, but from the looks of it, with a stick welder, you just put the stick into the stinger, and attach the other end to your work, and just go at it by making an arc. how can this be? How do you give it an arc sheild? Do you need an arc shield?


thanks
 
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#27 ·
An FYI for everyone looking for a welder - I looked and looked for a good deal on the Lincoln 175, I knew that was what I wanted. The cheapest I found it locally was about $560 at Lowes. I ended up buying one new in the box off ebay for about $440 to my front door - Just another option for those looking for some good deals.
 
#28 ·
bdmonist said:
An FYI for everyone looking for a welder - I looked and looked for a good deal on the Lincoln 175, I knew that was what I wanted. The cheapest I found it locally was about $560 at Lowes. I ended up buying one new in the box off ebay for about $440 to my front door - Just another option for those looking for some good deals.
That is a good deal. You have a link to that seller/dealer or was this a one of a kind sale? Bob
 
#29 ·
It was Bruni03, but it was an auction, not a buy it now. I just checked, he doesn't have anything for sale. It may have been a one time thing for him.
 
#30 ·
Couple of questions for you all... I am looking to pick up a welder shortly. My plans include building skids, bumpers, maybe control arms and welding up suspension stuff later. Also I may build a new cage at some point when I decide for a full frame tied in cage...

If I am reading right will a regular stick be able to do most of this? And semi-easy to learn on?


I may also want to do sheet metal work on my heep and other vehicles too, so I can cut down the voltage and I should be fine for that as well?
 
#32 ·
mferrari said:
I am looking to pick up a welder shortly. My plans include building skids, bumpers, maybe control arms and welding up suspension stuff later. Also I may build a new cage at some point when I decide for a full frame tied in cage...

If I am reading right will a regular stick be able to do most of this? And semi-easy to learn on?
Yes. A 225-230 (150-160 DC) amp A/C D/C welder has equal or better capacity than a 210 AMP Mig and the cost is going to be a little better, like 1/3 the cost. (Hobart stickmate 230/160 is about $450.00 versus a Ironman 210 @ $1,200.00 and add another $100.00 for a tank) Even the 180 amp migs are not meant to weld gas shield over 3/16". And unless you go to a high dollar mig like the Miller 210 your duty cycle is really poor. Even a $300.00 Lincoln stick welder can weld 3/16" stuff all day long without shutting down. That poor duty cycle can be very frustrating.

mferrari said:
I may also want to do sheet metal work on my heep and other vehicles too, so I can cut down the voltage and I should be fine for that as well?
Yes. The mig gas shield will do a better job on sheet metal. But going DC with a 3/32" rod works pretty well on a stick unit.

You can buy a straight A/C stick welder for well under $300.00 but I strongly suggest an A/C D/C unit as the welds look so much nicer and there are more rod options. They start at about $450.00. Hobart at Tractor Supply Company seems to be the best deal. The only disadvantage to a stick unit is they require a 50 amp service as opposed to a 30 amp service for the 180 mig units. Many people already have a 30 amp in the garage for a dryer.
 
#33 ·
Awesome thanks for the help!
 
#34 ·
Well, I finally got my new welder yesterday. Hobart 230/160 Stickmate A/C D/C unit. I need to run a 50 amp service to the garage this weekend and I'll be in gear to weld the heavier stuff. Last weekend I was working on my tailgate hinge/tire carrier project and got so dang frustrated with that little 140 mig I thought I was gonna toss it in the trashcan. Terrible penetration and poor duty cycle. It took me over an hour to lay down 4 8" long welds due to the duty cycle and those welds will be ground out and re-done with the new welder this weekend or soon after. Bob
 
#35 ·
Welder question

I've seen lots of info posted on here about different welders but I have not seen the answer to the specific question that I have. I have looked at several machines now and am leaning towards the Millermatic 252. This is what the welding shop suggests and what they are saying makes since. I am new to welding but I do not want to buy small and in 6 months to a year outgrom my smaller machine. With this being said is the 252 too big for a jeep? Am I wasting my money? Should I just go to a smaller machine and if so Which one should I not outgrow for auto work.

Thanks
 
#36 ·
Cts6867 said:
I've seen lots of info posted on here about different welders but I have not seen the answer to the specific question that I have. I have looked at several machines now and am leaning towards the Millermatic 252. This is what the welding shop suggests and what they are saying makes since. I am new to welding but I do not want to buy small and in 6 months to a year outgrom my smaller machine. With this being said is the 252 too big for a jeep? Am I wasting my money? Should I just go to a smaller machine and if so Which one should I not outgrow for auto work.
Thanks
That is most definatly overkill. I have the millermatic 180 and it will weld ANYTHING that I throw on my jeep. Heck, I can do my structural steal test practicing with mine. The 252 is obviously a NICE machine and I would love to own it. For a beginner and only doing jeep stuff the 180 is definatly in your ballpark. You will not be dissapointed down the road with this machine.
 
#37 ·
Cts6867 said:
I've seen lots of info posted on here about different welders but I have not seen the answer to the specific question that I have. I have looked at several machines now and am leaning towards the Millermatic 252. This is what the welding shop suggests and what they are saying makes since. I am new to welding but I do not want to buy small and in 6 months to a year outgrom my smaller machine. With this being said is the 252 too big for a jeep? Am I wasting my money? Should I just go to a smaller machine and if so Which one should I not outgrow for auto work.

Thanks
How many hours will you weld each week?
 
#38 ·
Cts6867 said:
I've seen lots of info posted on here about different welders but I have not seen the answer to the specific question that I have. I have looked at several machines now and am leaning towards the Millermatic 252. This is what the welding shop suggests and what they are saying makes since. I am new to welding but I do not want to buy small and in 6 months to a year outgrom my smaller machine. With this being said is the 252 too big for a jeep? Am I wasting my money? Should I just go to a smaller machine and if so Which one should I not outgrow for auto work.

Thanks
Get the 185.
 
#40 ·
Welder

I don't think I will be welding much each week unless I just really get carried away with it. I need to do a LOT of rust repair. planning a SOA and changing the motor to a 350. I do tons of work on cars and want to learn the welding. As I stated before I just don't want to outgrow the machine soon.

Thanks for the help guys.
 
#41 ·
Cts6867 said:
I don't think I will be welding much each week unless I just really get carried away with it. I need to do a LOT of rust repair. planning a SOA and changing the motor to a 350. I do tons of work on cars and want to learn the welding. As I stated before I just don't want to outgrow the machine soon.

Thanks for the help guys.
You have options then.....

An AC/DC stick machine will handle both your thick and thin, plus allow some advantages that Mig will not, such as 99ni for the repair of cast and grey iron. Do not expect to weld aluminum and have it look good. It will not.....

If you want a MIG, I believe the 220v Millermatic 180, DVI, or 212 will suit your needs well. If you can pony up for a 212 and not blink an eye, then do it. You won't regret it. If you're budget conscious then look at the advantages and disadvantages of the 180 and DVI, then pick one.

If you buy a speedlens, and I'd recommend that you do, buy a good one. And just in case your wondering, last time I looked, Harbor Freight did not make any speedlens that I would consider good.
 
#42 ·
e-Welder said:
If you buy a speedlens, and I'd recommend that you do, buy a good one. And just in case your wondering, last time I looked, Harbor Freight did not make any speedlens that I would consider good.
:agree: This here is good advice. Myself, I have a miller elite series.
 
#43 ·
I almost bought a Miller Elite, but have never used anything other than Speedglas, and in the end bought a 9002X. I use that for TIG and my everyday MIG.

For out of position work or plate over 2", I use a fiberglass Tiger Hood, large opening, and a Speedglas APC-V drop in lens.

As for the made in China HF stuff, it isn't a matter of saftey, as all helmets must meet ANSI specs. A speed lens can only let so much ultra voilet or infared light through, must darken in a specific time, etc.. So those helmets must be safe. Much the same way that our childrens toys made in China can only contain a certain amount of lead. There are regulations for that too. So they must be safe as well.

My big gripe with the cheap speedlenses is with the quality of the optics. Everything is blurry and fuzzy. It's more difficult to see everything that your puddle is doing, thus affecting weld quality.

You can't weld good if you can't see good.

Unless you have a seeing eye dog.
 
#44 ·
e-Welder said:
You have options then.....

An AC/DC stick machine will handle both your thick and thin, plus allow some advantages that Mig will not, such as 99ni for the repair of cast and grey iron. Do not expect to weld aluminum and have it look good. It will not.....

If you want a MIG, I believe the 220v Millermatic 180, DVI, or 212 will suit your needs well. If you can pony up for a 212 and not blink an eye, then do it. You won't regret it. If you're budget conscious then look at the advantages and disadvantages of the 180 and DVI, then pick one.
Ditto what he says.

I just got the Hobart A/C D/C Stickmate LX at TSC and it is an amazing welder. Virtually infinate amperage control and a duty cycle that won't quit. And it is a nice compact unit. It can weld just about anything but very thin sheet metal and like mentioned above, aluminum. It can do thin sheet metal, but the mig does work better for that. Once you get to the thick construction type welding the stick is super. I still have my Lincoln 140 amp mig for the thin stuff (1/8" and thinner) as that is about all it is good for anyway. I am leaving the mig as a .025 solid wire gas welding rig only. No more flux core for me.

As far as Mig goes I would say to pay close attention to the duty cycle on those. Once you start welding 1/4" plate your duty cycle is usually pretty bad and you will need to do flux core anyway with the 180 class welders. Read the ratings closely and compare. Yes, they say they can weld up to 5/16"-3/8" metal, but that is flux core and multi-pass. Of course if money is no object and you can go big then do it. If you just want some extremely strong welds and save a couple bucks the A/C D/C is for you.
 
#46 ·
isuace said:
Is a stick welder a good choice for doing things like spring perches or shock mounts? I plan on swapping in an 8.8 and am considering taking on the welding myself.
Absolutely.

Same as with mig, you get what you pay for. If you go to Harbor Freight and get one of those 110 volt $150.00 stick welders you will be disappointed. I paid about $450.00 for mine. I can weld equal to or better than a $1,500.00-$2,500.00 mig as far as strength of bond goes. Does a 210 amp Mig weld look better? Yup. But that does not mean it's stronger and by using the correct rod on DC a stick weld looks darn good as well. Mine is a 230 Amp A/C-160 Amp D/C unit(Hobart 230-160 Stickmate LX). I can weld 3/16" all day long single pass (with great confidence I might add) using 100-120 Amp DC. Ditto with 1/4" stuff using 125-130 Amps. And when I say all day, I mean all day. The duty cycle can handle 100 amps for a long time. My 140 amp mig can run about 18" of bead in high gear then shuts down for at least 1/2 hour before I can start up again. You need to consider, although wire welders have been around for a while now they are still fairly new in the history of welding. As far as being affordable to the average guy, that has been a short while that they have been around. The arc or stick welder basically built this country. I don't knock Mig as I think it is great, I just can't afford a $1,500.00 set-up to weld in my garage once in a while. A mig that costs as much as my stick will not weld up stuff you are looking at doing with any confidence IMHO. The 180 amp migs run about $650-$750 without a tank and don't have as good of a duty cycle as my $450 welder. The minimum Mig I would get is something like the Hobart 210 Ironman or Miller 210. These are baseline production units. They will run anywhere from $1,200 - $1,500 without a tank.

EDIT NOTE: But either way you go make sure you can weld first if you have little or no experience!
 
#48 ·
isuace said:
Is a stick welder a good choice for doing things like spring perches or shock mounts? I plan on swapping in an 8.8 and am considering taking on the welding myself.
Yes.

The only reason I'd tend to steer you away fron a stick welder is because you keep mentioning "rust repair". If you want to do a lot of bodywork, you need to look at a mig. DC stick will do it, but you being new, the learning curve would be difficult.

Your 8.8? Are you going to weld the tubes to the center section?

You better practice up before you do if that's in your plans. You do not want to undercut or burn through the axle housing tubes, and it's easy to do.
 
#50 ·
isuace said:
Yeah, I have only welded once. I figured I would start out by trying to build something not so challenging, like a very simple bumper to hone my skills. Something that doesn't stake my life on the quality of my welds :p
Best thing for you to do is take an introductory welding class at your local high school/community college/votech school.
 
#51 ·
e-Welder said:
General Electric Company invented the automatic wire feed process in 1920.
I did say they have been around. But I have been welding for 30 + years and it's just been recently that the average guy has had access to them.

Don't misunderstand me, I have no issue with the mig process. I have been doing it for a number of years. But if a guy has a small budget and wants to weld stick is a lot cheaper. I can say after messing around with a 140 amp 110 volt mig for quite some time I worry about guys welding up stuff they should not be welding with one of those. Great for sheet metal, but not so great for structural welding. The 140 amp mig cost me as much or more than my stick welder after I bought the tank. The stick will weld circles around the CLW. I do agree that for a lot of sheet metal work the small mig will work well. But it sure won't weld any rusty metal. The stick just gives you more bang for the buck IMHO.
 
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