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Old Man EMU 2.5" YJ to CJ Suspension Install

605K views 1K replies 179 participants last post by  80cj 
#1 ·
Hey gang,

I'll be tackling this install on my 1981 CJ7 258, today, and would appreciate any tips I can get. I got it from 4WD.com

It appears the rear end is pretty simple....space the brake line and bolt everything on.

The fronts are more involved, since I have to do some grinding to install new shackle hangers, but I've got a fair handle on that.

I'm most concerned about drivability issues, afterwards. I went with the 2.5" package because I wanted to avoid castor and driveshaft problems. I know shimming to create the correct angles isn't difficult, but it seems kinda band-aid-ish to me.

Anyway, I'd love to hear from any of you with experience with this kit.

Matt
 

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#595 ·
I think the only difference between the Dana44 kit and the AMC20 kit are the U-bolts.

Got a question for you guys. Would you see any issue getting just the OK4WD Granite Kit and running stock YJ springs & shackles? So I'd still get the benefit of wider springs and 1/2" lift but I could save up for awhile to purchase either the BDS or OME kit at a later time. Any other parts required outside of the Granite Kit, YJ springs and shackles?
 
#599 ·
I've looked in the forum and even in the factory service manual but can't find torque specs for the shackle bolts. I was wondering what you guys torqued yours to. I apoligize if this has been covered and I missed it. Any advise is appreciated.
I spent a couple hours trying to figure this out on the web. Answers were all over the map.

Some say just snug so the bolt can rotate...They are wrong!

Others say 40 ft lbs......Could be.

I used a standard torque chart for wet 9/16 12TPI bolts and came up with around 150 ft lbs. But way before I got to that torque I could tell it was starting to crush the sleeve.

In the end I just tightened them up with 2 wrenches so they were tight and let it go at that. Guessing around 50/60 lbs.

Just make sure when you tighten them tight, they are tight against the sleeve, and provide a little clamp up on the poly bushings. Like 1/16' on each side.
 
#597 ·
Another lift install -thread revival, :laugh:.
This a daunting thread, at 40 pages. I got through Matt's install (about page eight), taking notes but then got bogged down with information overload. Many questions I may have may have been answered in the next 30 pages, maybe not. I also want to share my experiences.
I got ARB's ARB7686XH kit, with the recommended ARB shocks for $1,157.00 shipped to my door. From 4WD. Their add had conflicting info about if shocks were included and their salesman assured me they were. They were not, but 4WD gave me all four $100.00 shocks for just $100.00. Props to 4WD customer caring.
I laid out all the parts and checked them off against the parts list. The "parts description" is vague at best, leading to questions of where they go. The parts also are not numbered so you have to figure out if you really have that part included. I seem to have all of them.
A few questions on the parts. The front spring plates have two studs protruding from them. My old ones had just one, for the sway bar. I assume that the other is for the shock. Do I have to remove the old lower shock mount from the axle housing ? I will anyway if it is not going to be used. Remove it using a cut off wheel on a die grinder. How thick is the axle housing ?
I also received four rear spring packs. Is this right ?
The bushings. I have four separate packs, ok. They are yellow, and one pack will do one spring. The kit's "spring conversion package" has eight red ones. The thing about that is, there are not enough. 16 yellow ones but just eight red ones. The red ones are a little different, in that they have ?passage ways? in the inside surface (I think that these must be greaseable bushings).
The kit also comes with eight grease zerts/fittings. I see nowhere for these to go on the parts supplied. Not even the bolts.
The assembly instructions. I started and it does note to use specific numbered parts supplied with the hardware pack. 'Cept the parts themselves are not numbered. I will figure out what is what but questions come up when I am trying to decide what is what. Maybe you can help. There is a longer flat bar, 1 1/2" wide by 8" long with four hols in it. Another flat bar is 1 1/2" wide by 3 3/4 long with just two holes in it. What are they for ?

Ok, on to the install. Per recommendations earlier in this thread, because for now I am gonna reuse my CY shackle hangers, I went to get new and longer shackle hanger bolts. I opted for stainless steel, for looks. Was the bolt guy right ? I asked him if they were grade eight. He said, ... stainless is not rated that way.
So, I start on the passenger side rear. Since we have to replace the shackle hangers, replace their mounting bolts. As noted earlier in this thread, one member had his bolts break upon removal. Necesatating broken bolt extracting and threatening reliability on the trail. (Stock CJ's should do this under maintenance). Mine were pitted/corroded. I have a factory tow bar which interferes with the reinforced shackle hangers. So I have to trim it shorter.

I am looking forward to your help, :kiss:. Better than making it up as I go along, :laugh:.
Thanks.
 
#598 ·
The second stud is for the shocks on narrow track axles, 1981 and older. If you have a bracket on the backside of the axle then you have a wide track axle that doesn't use the second stud on the plate. Which should be right since you have an 85 model.

Your parts listing does sound confusing, almost like you got a hodge podge of parts to work for several different applications.

Stainless steel bolts are not as strong as grade 8 and my understanding is they are more brittle. I would get some grade 8's to replace ALL your bolts you remove. And a coating of anti-sieze won't hurt either.
 
#601 ·
The second stud is for the shocks on narrow track axles, 1981 and older. If you have a bracket on the backside of the axle then you have a wide track axle that doesn't use the second stud on the plate.
Well, in fairness to the OME kit, it is a YJ kit which people are using on CJ's. OME does not list a CJ kit. Now I wonder if I want to use that second stud, as it is 2 3/4 inches lower. I am thinking about shock travel at it's peaks.

The shocks 4WD promised me came in. Hold up on the praise I gave them for caring about the customer. They are not the $93.00 shocks the kit recommended. They are Pro Comps ES1000, which go for $31.00 each. So, when they told me that they will include shocks for $100.00, instead of sending the shocks recommended (nitrogen charged I think) in the add, they picked what kind of shocks I would have and knocked $20.00 off what I would have had to pay. They are the cheapest Pro Comps made and I am not even sure they fit the lift as they seem no longer than the original ones.

Install experiences. In cutting the tow/draw bar shorter, I noticed it's mounting bolts show signs of corrosion/pitting/rust where the nuts rest. I will have to drop the fuel tank to replace two of the bolts. (I had just had that tank out.)
Also, as recommended, I used longer bolts for the shackle hangers. It now occurs to me that I need new, longer, spacers to keep from crushing the bushings. I have a chop saw. What do I need to buy which I can cut to length ?
 
#600 ·
On the sheet that came with my Warrior shackle it said to torque to 30 but even 25 is plenty since it has a nylok nut on it. And if you think about it, your only going to draw it until the sides hit the sleeve. At that point you'd only tighten it to compress the lock washer, if it had one, but since the nylok nut takes care of that "locking", your done. I tightened mine to 27 ft/lbs., all 12 bolts.
 
#602 ·
That's true, wasn't thinking of that. That would explain the odd assortment of parts.
If you get the correct length shock you won't need the extra 2 3/4" for travel because the springs will only droop so much. So as long as your within the range of the shock you wouldn't really benefit.
That sucks about the 'ol bait and switch they pulled on you. They'd be going back.

"Also, as recommended, I used longer bolts for the shackle hangers. It now occurs to me that I need new, longer, spacers to keep from crushing the bushings. I have a chop saw. What do I need to buy which I can cut to length ? "
Not quite following you on this.....
 
#603 ·
If you get the correct length shock you won't need the extra 2 3/4" for travel because the springs will only droop so much. So as long as your within the range of the shock you wouldn't really benefit.
Yeah but, is it the droop I need to worry about ? That's flex. I am more worried that the wrong shock might act as a bump stop.
That sucks about the 'ol bait and switch they pulled on you. They'd be going back.
It can happen. I wish I didn't jump the gun and open/separate all the parts when they told me that they would send the shocks. Their problem if they wish.
As recommended on page two, OK4WD seems to be a great replacement source for the OME/CJ kit. When you go with their Rock Equipment Granite Kit which includes everything, shocks and all, and has free shipping, your cost is $1,269.90 and I guess tax. I am at $1,057.00 including $100.00 of shipping. Add in $376.00 for the correct shocks ($1,433.00), deduct my $100.00 shipping charge, and OK4WD is $263.00 cheaper.

"Also, as recommended, I used longer bolts for the shackle hangers. It now occurs to me that I need new, longer, spacers to keep from crushing the bushings. I have a chop saw. What do I need to buy which I can cut to length ? "
Not quite following you on this.....
I said spacers. The shackles/bolts have metal sleeves.
 
#605 ·
I got my sleeves from ok4wd. I had to grind one end just enough to slip it between the shackle sides, maybe a 32nd. But I did have to drill a hole in the center of my sleeves to allow grease thru to the bushings, which pivot on the sleeves.

For the shocks I went with Bilsteins that were for a 3-4" lift. OME claims 2 1/2" but some have gotten closer to 3", plus my shackles give me another 1", so I'm in the 3 1/2"-4" range. But yes, you don't want the shocks range to be exceeded in either direction. Find out what the compressed and extended lengths are.
 
#606 ·
4WD praise back on. They are gonna send me the OME brand recommended shocks, no extra charge.
Back to the install.
To get the tow bar off, I had to remove the rear spring hangers. I went ahead and removed the springs. As per forum recommendation, I measured the old springs and compared eye to eye measurements to get the correct length shackle hangers I will need.
They were an within an inch of each other. So I measured the width of them. They are both at 2 1/2 inches. Do I have YJ rear springs already ? Lift springs ? The front springs I know are just two inches wide ( I can not accurately measure the length).
I just refinished my original chrome Laredo rims. Stamped "Made in Canada". I noticed that the shocks I removed also said the same thing. Knowing my CJ, no cut wires, no missing original equipment (including the Laredo carpeting in good condition), original paint, all original smog control, me being the third owner, I wonder if the CJ springs were as wide and as long as the YJ's.
 
#607 ·
Yes the Jeeps factory rear springs are 2 1/2" and 43" (iirc) long; but the fronts are only 2" wide and 42" long. I may have the lengths off a bit.
That's great about the shocks. Now the issue may be getting the "correct" OME shocks. I believe one of the guys here who got them had issues getting the proper ones. Or maybe I'm thinking of the stabilizer.
 
#608 ·
I am stuck. Per this thread, it was mentions that I could use my old CJ shackle hangers. I went and got the longer bolts. Having trouble locating the bolt sleeves locally.
Looking at my new OME bushings, there is no way an original sized CJ bolt and sleeve will fit the OME bushings. I went down the street to look at a YJ's shackle hangers and the bolt is thicker in diameter and the sleeve should be too. The YJ shackle hanger is also longer than the CJ's. Replacement YJ shackles other than stock, suggest another 1" of lift.
I am not sure what to do. I got a killer deal as it turned out but I kinda wish I went with Rocky Road Outfitters or OK4WD. Both will match prices and they have easy to reach tech support. I hate to ply them for knowledge when I did not buy from them. I can not find an ARB contact number (I am gonna call 4WD).
I am leaning towards just getting stock YJ shackle hangers but would like better suggestions.
 
#613 ·
The OME Bushes require the OME shackle kit and bolts. They are designed to be greased via the bolt and a non-OME bolt and bush wont fit, wont work and OME wont want to know when the bush fails due to lack of grease.

OME wont sell the bolts seperately, they only come with the shackle kit but they dont come with the non-shackle end bolts so you still need those. I have listed the sizes in this thread a while ago.
 
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#610 ·
The rear Jeep shackles can be used because they're 2 1/2" but you need new 2 1/2" front shackles, not necessarily wrangler shackles, you could use rear Jeep shackles.
My kit came with new 2 1/2" shackle hangers (reinforced gusset).
You just need 2 1/2" wide ones, then choose the length accordingly. Stock wrangler shackles are 4" bolt to bolt whereas Jeeps are 3".
That should be perfect, I think. My new springs need a little longer flex/stretch room.

The issue with the bushings is that OME and wranglers use 1 1/4" bushings and a bigger center bolt, while Jeeps use 1" bushings and a smaller bolt and sleeve, or some may not even use a sleeve.
I have noticed some replacement beefier shackles (with the welded center stiiffner) seem not to have sleeves.
I would steer clear of Rocky Road ... OK4WD will sell parts from their kit,[/quote]
Thank you for that.
As for shackle hangers, you'll need new hangers for 1 1/4" bushings, such as Crabtree's or MORE's or OK4WD's Rock Granite ones.
I am not sure you are right. The hangers just sandwich any bushing, the sleeve prohibiting too much crush. They do have to be long enough so the center brace will allow the bushing to fit/work.
Thanks again. The wife still has faith in me, :rofl:.
 
#609 ·
The rear Jeep shackles can be used because they're 2 1/2" but you need new 2 1/2" front shackles, not necessarily wrangler shackles, you could use rear Jeep shackles. You just need 2 1/2" wide ones, then choose the length accordingly. Stock wrangler shackles are 4" bolt to bolt whereas Jeeps are 3".

The issue with the bushings is that OME and wranglers use 1 1/4" bushings and a bigger center bolt, while Jeeps use 1" bushings and a smaller bolt and sleeve, or some may not even use a sleeve. I would steer clear of Rocky Road just from what I've read about other guys experiences with them. OK4WD will sell parts from their kit, which is what I did, you don't have to get a complete kit. I used their bolts, sleeves, and U-bolt skids (which are Warrior Products brand).

As for shackle hangers, you'll need new hangers for 1 1/4" bushings, such as Crabtree's or MORE's or OK4WD's Rock Granite ones.
 
#611 ·
Based on your last comment I think we might be getting terms confused. The hangers are what attaches to the frame. The shackles go between the hangers and the springs. The shackles sandwich the bushings and sleeves and come in various lengths. The hangers should be for 1 1/4" bushings.
 
#612 ·
Thanks, I thought so.
The rear Jeep shackles can be used because they're 2 1/2" but you need new 2 1/2" front shackles, not necessarily wrangler shackles, you could use rear Jeep shackles.
I really do appreciate your attention. I will not rush this. I am glad I am not paying someone to slap the lift together.
Jeeps are built, not bought.
I am on hold till Monday business hours.
:cheers2:
 
#618 ·
I disagree with a few comments. OME makes 2 bushings set, the SB87 for use with greasable bolts and the SB57 for NON-greasable bolts.
The bolt nor the sleeve rotate around each other. They are both stationary. The sleeve is pinched between the shackle sides and the bolt is tightened to hold that pinch. At least the sleeves I got from OK4WD do.
The rotating friction is between the outside of the sleeve and the inside of the bushing. Thats why theres a flat groove on the inside of each bushing plus a gap where they meet. The sleeves should have at least a hole, if not two, to allow grease thru. However the sleeve included in OME's greasable kit does not. I'm not sure why but maybe they feel enough may squeeze through the seam of the sleeve. I didn't feel it would so I drilled a hole in the center.
The person to ask about OME's greasing intent would be T.R. Burris at ARB in Wash. or someone at OME in Australia for VooDoo. Maybe one of their engineers could become a member and explain their intent to us.
 
#620 ·
OMESB57 kit is marked as "for use with original shackles" ie OEM/Factory
and the OMESB87 kit is marked as "for use with OME Greasable Shackles".

Looking through this thread there are a number of people that use sleeves and none have holes in them. I have spoken direct to ARB engineers regarding this because i originally bought the bushes and not the shackles. The sleeve would have to be made not bought and the bolt was 1/2" with a hole drilled in it making it weaker than OEM/Factory. Its a shame i didnt take photo's of the original bolt that had worn over 1/2 way through. If they had also been drilled for grease they would have snapped for sure. A sleeve/pin may work for a while but there is no way its going to work as well or be as strong as the OME shackles and bolts that are close to twice the thickness, grease the bushes correctly and were designed specifically for the application.

BTW, OME dont supply bolts for the non-shackle end
 
#621 ·
I just checked the package from my SB87 kit and it doesn't say that anywhere on it. And when I called ARB to find out the difference(between the 57 & 87) they merely said one was for greasable bolts, the other isn't. If what you say is the case then their marketing has much to be desired.
 
#627 ·
I don't claim to have any knowledge about this topic other than following this thread because I want to do the OME upgrade.

After reading all of this I believe the OME shackle product is the OMEGS11 to be used with bushings OMESB87.

Here's a link I found to the OME application guide:
http://4wheelonline.com/jeep/images/ome/ome-application-guide.pdf (page 20)

Also found them at Quadratec:

http://www.quadratec.com/products/16090_8009.htm

I would appreciate the experts here to continue the discussion to help educate us.

Dave
 
#629 ·
That does make more sense now and I agree that's a better design. It combines the sleeves and the bolt. However, since the sleeve is clamped tight with the bolt I don't think there would a wear issue unless the nylocnut wasn't tight. Ask me again in 5 years.
 
#633 ·
Wow, what a great read! Combine this with GoJeepin's suspension basics (38 pages long) and I cant help but wonder what knowledge I have forced out of my head to make room for all this new CJ Knowledge.... Hopefully nothing important!

I am starting with the stock suspension on my 1984 CJ-7, that rides like a bucket of fail, and the previous owner put brand new 33 inch tires on to make it oh so much worse. They don't rub badly unless I disconnect the sway and really flex it, so any amount of lift will make the difference. I also do not fear going to some bigger bump stops if necessary.

A few questions, I am sure they were answered, Im just clarifying.
• I was unable to find the OME shocks for the CJ still available anywhere. (Except for as part of the ok4wds Granite kit) Do you know if they still exist?

• My boss has a hook up with ARB, he asked for an ARB part number and said he can get me a deal, so I found this Kit: Part Number ARB7686XH Looks like bushings and required bolts/sleeves are included. Is this kit missing anything aside from the Shocks and Shackles?
o Any YJ shackles should work, yes?​

• If he doesn't come through for whatever reason, I am going to order one of these: OK4WD Granite Kit with OME Springs OR Rocky Road OME kit I have heard questionable things about Rocky-Road and them getting the right parts delivered to you in a timely manner.
o If I buy the Rocky-Road kit, I could get the shorter CJ Length shackles if I didn't want as much lift, or get longer bolts for my existing shackles, correct?​

• Im not sure if I will be using YJ or CJ shackles yet, if I use the CJ shackles, then I need a 4 degree shim. If I use YJ Shackles, then I most likely need a transfer case drop kit and 6 degree shims. Is this correct?

• Lastly, I am going to get some sway bar disconnects. I didn't find any by ARB, so I am getting this kit: Rubicon Express Sway Bar Disconnect Set. Do you suggest any other good mods (Steering braces ect) while its apart?



Have you installed this kit? Were you satisfied with shipping and customer service?
 
#634 ·
locohosa said:
• Im not sure if I will be using YJ or CJ shackles yet, if I use the CJ shackles, then I need a 4 degree shim. If I use YJ Shackles, then I most likely need a transfer case drop kit and 6 degree shims. Is this correct?
I have the Heavy OME 2.5 springs with Currie YJ shackles and 4 degree shims...balls-on 6 degree castor.
 
#637 ·
I just finished reading all 43 pages, and the pdf on suspension basics. That's a lot of info!! Thanks to all who took the time to take pictures and keep us up to date on how things worked.

One thing I still haven't figured out. Why use 4 rear heavy load springs, when they sell front heavy load springs for $25 less (http://www.quadratec.com/products/16090_5032.htm)? What is the difference between them?
 
#638 ·
Big difference is ride quality and how you will use the Jeep.

I have no front winch to support. I was also told the light duty spring would allow the front axle to articulate better, I can not comment on that as I rarely go off road. I was told heave duty springs if you run a hard top and spare. I have light duty in the front and heave duty in the rear, there is a slight rake to the front and if I did it over would have light duty all the way around.

Again it is all about how you will use the Jeep.
 
#639 ·
Glenn: Did you use a light duty "front" spring, or a light duty "rear" spring? I'm pretty sure I have seen both front and rear springs in heavy, medium and light load options. My question is why use a rear spring when there are three options for front springs that can be had for less money? I feel like I missed something somewhere in the 43 pages of reading I did over the last two days.
 
#640 ·
I have the light duty in the front and heavy duty in the rear.

I think the choice is really determined by how you use the Jeep. Daily transportation on highways without heavy bumpers and a which I would think the way to go would be light duty all the way around. That is what I would do if doing it over.
 
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