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T176 hard to get into 2nd gear.

9K views 85 replies 9 participants last post by  agear 
#1 ·
It's hard to get my t176 into 2nd gear. You might describe it as feeling very tight putting it in 2nd gear. I don't think it's synchronizers because it is a recent rebuild. My mechanic friend believes its in the shift tower ,where the shift rails and forks attatch. I hope so ,because rebuilding the shift tower doesn't require me removing the tranny from the vehicle. Anybody know what is causing this ?
 
#64 ·
another picture
 

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#65 ·
agear,

near as i can tell from my info when i did a rebuild the snap ring on the inboard side of the 1st/2nd synchronizer clutch (where the splines are) is correct. There is no snap ring outboard of first gear, only the thrust washer. On my first gear you can see a wear pattern where the gear has rotated against the thrust washer so the thrust washer should fit up against first gear and not a shoulder on the shaft. Is this the new shaft? If so, do you get the same fitment on the old shaft?
 
#66 ·
The thrust washer for 1st gear bears up against the rear bearing so the rear bearing must be properly positioned againts the shoulder on the shaft. The snap ring on the spline side of the shaft assures that the bearing is properly positioned. Did you have the snap ring properly installed? If so ss it possible that the bearing is the incorrect width? You might try installing synchro hub positioned with it's snap ring, then 1st gear, the thrust washer, then the bearing and it's snap ring while the shaft is out of the case.


PS. In pic on post 64, that is where the thrust washer goes. is that space about the thickness of the thrust washer?
 
#68 ·
John strenk, I could be wrong but I dont thing a snap ring goes where the arrow is pointing in the picture in post #64 either because its rounded there and dont think a snap ring would sit right.
80cj(bob), I doubt I left a snapring out but its possible ,why do you ask ?
why do you ask about the space ? ? In my photo in post #64- the space between 2nd gear and the shoulder - thats about half the thickness of the thrustwasher . Thats the shoulder right there a fraction of an inch to the lef to the left of the gear

Thanks in advance guys
 
#69 ·
I forgot how thick the thrust washer is. I guess it's thicker than that space allows. I wonder if you changed the snap ring that positions the 1-2 synchro hub to a thinner one thus allowing the synchro hub to move further forward, it may allow sufficient space for the 1 st gear thrust washer and possibly close up the endplay for 2nd gear?
 
#70 ·
Actually bob, thats the shoulder right there and ofcourse the i.d. of the thrust washer won't go over the bigger part of the shaft so it cant fill that space......
 
#72 ·
how do you tell if your clutch is coming all the way off ? If i'm in gear and have the clutch pedal down I don't go anywhere so I guess it's coming off all the way ?
 
#73 ·
Nm about the clutch . Yes is the answer
 
#74 ·
UPDATE: I have found that the shifting is very hard when the jeep is cold and then gets a little easier as the jeep warms up. Right now it's not bad shifting I guess from where I 've been driving it off and on it has warmed up the transmission .Even with engine off I'm guess the heat from the engine is warming the transmission. Maybe when I gets warm enough it's okay...Still a little clunky. Hey maybe its the blocking rings . Either that or the mainshaft is moving around on me .
Bob, I read another thread on here where you found that someone had not installed rear mainshaft ball bearing on the mainshaft all the way so when they put the adapter housing on it in effect put a too much preload on the bearing making the mainshaft hard to turn. How would this effect anything ? Because I can't see how a bearing that is tight is gonna slow a moving jeep down in neutral. So I don't see how that would have an effect on the synchronizing.
I also read where someone had hard shifting problems that were solved by installing 2(double) transmission to transfercase adapter gaskets. So in that case I guess the mainshaft was bottoming out in the input shaft of the transfercase and when bolted up it was pushing the mainshaft into the clutch/shaft of the tranny causing some resistance (limited by the big snapring in the bearing) but I'm back at square one again because I don't really see why this is an issue for synchronization...........?????????? Again. I only have this problem while moving. What is it about moving that makes it hard to shift because with transfer case in neutral and stationary the jeep shifts fine ? I guess it shifts fine when the tranfercase is in neutral because the mainshaft is free to spin either direction making the dog teeth easier to line up ?
 
#75 ·
The issue where the rear bearing was not installed to proper depth had the effect of placing a heavy load on the main shaft bearings when the adapter was tightened down thus making the shaft difficult to turn. If you can turn your shaft freely with everything assembled,that isn't your problem.
 
#76 ·
thanks for replying. I see what you're saying, I just don't quite see how that would make it hard to shift .................
 
#77 ·
Picture this: The synchro assy uses friction to match the speed of different gears. If the transmission shafts are difficult to turn then the synchro assy has to work harder. When you step on your clutch pedal, you are releasing the disc and input from the clutch/flywheel so that the input shaft can spin freely and the sunchro can match speeds with the gear you are shifting to.
 
#78 ·
Ahhhhhh , I gotcha now. Okay so an unseated, preloaded bearing cannn be an issue.

Anther person had a hard shifting problem because of supposedly not having a gasket between the transmission and adapter housing which supposedly caused binding because the mainshaft was bottoming out in the input shaft of the transfer case , pushing in on the mainshaft making it harder to turn. He ended up using 2 gaskets.

All I used between the tranny and adapter housing was anerobic sealant. They sell paper gaskets. I believe the sealant would do a better job sealing.

Damn , so I gotta make sure all bearings and thrustwashers are properly installed, the synch. assemblies, and blocking rings are made right, correct snap rings are in correct place, and I guess see if the mainshaft is bottoming out in the input shaft.
 
#79 ·
We've had a few warmer days here and after getting off the highway on my way to work the jeep is all warmed up and it shifts into 2nd fine. 2nd and 3rd gear still seems a little unsynchronized some times and it's making me wonder if the blocking rings are a little defective but for the most part it's shifting fine at these warmer temperatures.
 
#81 ·
Yes , why do you ask ? also I wonder what is helping it shift better the expansion of the parts or the thinning out of the lube ?
 
#83 ·
Yep gl4. Do you think it would be okay to try 50w motor oil or some REDLINE MTL , i've heard about ?
 
#85 ·
I have sta-lube(crc) 85w90 gl4 in my tranny now and it shifts better when hot and therefore thinner at about 85 weight .So it seems to be the oil warming up and getting thinner that is making it shift better. So the fluid I ordered will be thinner cold than my 85w-90 is hot.
Here is the fluid I ordered. The redline I ordered is a gl4 75w-80 so it will already be 80(thin) even when still cold. The reason I got 75w-80 is because even when my 85w-90 is warm it's still a little-notchy I guess
 

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#86 ·
drained and refilled my tranny with the REDLINE MTL. It feels a little better- a little less clunky but it still feels like things aren't quite synchronized and are notchy...........Can I live with it ? -don't know. If I pull the tranny and it turns out my bearings are seated then I would replace the synchros and maybe the 1st/2nd synchronizer assembly but I would just be replacing them with crown or omix ada ,which is what is already in there so...............

UPDATE: I went on a test drive this morning. It was about 40 degrees. It wasn't as hard to shift but still not nice. Want to do another test drive when it's even colder......

UPDATE: my expert brothet in law says its shifting normal-to good. Hes good. But it still feels a little clunky and like its not quite lining up in there. And his reply to that was that it feels more "trucky"(more heavy duty) to him. When he had a t18 it would kinda go into gear like that. I don't know though
 
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