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Not your average "Who makes the best AT?" thread. This is an above average one!

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#1 ·
Not your average "Who makes the best AT?" thread. This is an above average one!

1) Consumer Reports ranks Cooper AT3 as number 1. Several 4x4 magazines tested the top ATs and ranked Cooper AT3 best. Price is medium. Good value, IMO. The AT3 has a 55,000 mile tread warranty.

I have Cooper AT3 and love them. I like them much better than the BFG AT and General Grabber AT2 I previously owned. Cooper AT3 is much better on road than BFG AT and Grabber AT2; and Cooper AT3 is better off road too. The Cooper AT3 even has decent mud ability off road!

I'm especially impressed with Cooper AT3's soft ride, excellent steering feel, and silence on road. It's like a car tire on road, but still has excellent traction and is reasonably tough. It's really an amazing tire.

Edited in 3 Years Later: I'm still very impressed with on road (especially wet highways where it never hydroplanes), gravel roads, trails and mud. Sand performance is mediocre. Snow performance is mediocre. Ice performance is poor. I reported my lack of Winter traction to Cooper and was told that others had complained of the same. Cooper has a solution: The new Cooper ATW.​

Edited in 3 Years Later:Cooper released a new tire called the AT/W. The ATW is AT3 redesigned with softer rubber and way more sipes for more Winter traction. The ATW has a 50,000 mile tread warranty. Size availability is limited at this time, but Cooper is taking size requests for making more sizes of ATW. You can go to Cooper's website to see what sizes of ATW are currently offered by looking in their Sport Utility and Light Truck sections. If the size you want isn't offered in a load rating you want, email Cooper and ask them to start making the size ATW you want.

Edited in 3 Years Later: The rankings below were current when I posted them 3 years ago, but have changed since then. Cooper AT3 and Hankook ATM have dropped from top two rankings, but are still among the top 4. Lack of Winter traction dropped the AT3 ranking. However, Cooper now offers the ATW which is among the top ranked ATs currently, and BFG now offers BFG AT KO2 which is another top ranked tire.

Edited in 4 Years Later: IMO the 3 best AT tires (currently) are (in no particular order): Cooper ATW, BFG AT KO2, and Cooper AT3. Others may have other opinions.

My personal favorites for a Northern climate to use year round including cold, wet, snowy, icy Winters are the ATW and KO2. Both are great for snow. The KO2 is better on ice, but the ATW is better on wet pavement because it doesn't hydroplane. The KO2 has a tendency to hydroplane at high speed on wet highways, as does the KO. I base that on a combination of reviews I've read and my personal experiences.

ATW is my most favorite because it is highly resistant to hydroplaning, which is important to me in my super wet climate. AT3 is also highly resistant to hydroplaning. ATW has more wet traction than AT3 because ATW has more sipes.​

1, 10, or in between?) Tire Rack ranks Firestone Destination AT as number 1, but Consumer Reports ranks it as number 10. There are numerous 4x4 magazines who tested it and liked it, one loved it. So I'm sure it's reasonably good. I think its ranking belongs somewhere around # 5. Price is good.

2) Tire Rack and Consumer Reports both rank Michelin LTX AT2 as number 2. Price is expensive. It is great on dry and wet roads, and Winter roads. Those are high priorities with Tire Rack and especially Consumer Reports. However, I doubt it has any self cleaning ability for mud.

3) Consumer Reports ranks Hankook Dynapro ATM as number 3. Petersons Offroad ranks Hankook Dynapro ATM number 3. Price is expensive, but worth it, IMO.

3 or 5?) Tire Rack ranks Kumho Road Venture SAT KL61 as number 3. Consumer Reports ranked it as number 5. ConsumerSearch.com ranked it the best value priced AT. Price is very very good. Excellent value.

4) Consumer Reports ranks Kumho Road Venture AT KL78 as number 4. Tire Rack ranks it as number 13. I personally like this tire for its exceptional Winter snow AND ICE traction. The only question is how many miles would it last? Price is very good. Good value.

4) Tire Rack rates Goodyear Silent Armor as number 4. Consumer Reports didn't test it or include it in its rankings this time. Price is expensive. I don't know much about this tire, but many professional reviewers and http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f15/...es-best-thread-above-average-one-1527835/user reviewers love this tire.

5) or last place?) Tire Rack ranks General Grabber AT2 as number 5, but Consumer Reports ranks it poorly (far below top 10).
I previously owned this tire. IME, it's a great performing aggressive AT, except that it rides ROUGH. Every bump hits hard. Otherwise a great tire. Is is an exceptionally tough tire with strong, thick sidewalls. Price is good. Good value. It's a great tire if you don't mind a rough ride.​

6) Consumer Reports ranks Bridgestone Duelor AT Revo-2 as number 6. I don't know much about this tire, but many professional reviewers and user reviewers love this tire.

7) Tire Rack rates BFG AT as number 7. Consumer Reports didn't test it or include it in its rankings this time. It's no longer the best, but is still good. There are better tires (IMO) that cost less, but don't count out BFG AT. It's still good and very popular. The fact that there are other tires ranked above it is because those other tires are excellent. Rankings reflect tire performance, not popularity. BFG is still the most popular. i.e. - more people buy it than any other.

The on road performance differences are very slight between the top 4. All the top 4 ranked tires are the best, IMO. All the top 7 are excellent, IMO. You can't go wrong with any of the top 7 choices, IMO.

I personally think Cooper ATW, Nokian Rotiva AT, and Toyo Open Country AT2 are also among the best ATs., but they didn't get tested, reviewed, or ranked by any major professional reviewers because these tires are new. I think it's likely they will be highly ranked after next year's testing. I suspect the new Cooper ATW might be number one ranked tire after next year's testing.

Toyo Open Country AT2 is so new that there is only one professional review of it by a truck magazine that tested the P version on road and loved it. There are 3 tread versions of this tire: P, LT, and X-Treme, and user reviews often don't specify which tread version they own and are reviewing. I have only read one professional review done by a pick-up truck magazine that reviewed the P version on road and loved it. I think the LT version is probably among the best ATs. I think the Xtreme version is a hybrid tire, not an AT. A hybrid is more aggressive than AT, but less aggressive than MT. A hybrid is between AT & MT.

I cannot include Nokian Rotiva AT in the rankings because (at this time) it's not been reviewed by any professional sources that I've seen, and not been compared to other tires. However, I think it is probably among the best ATs. I hope new tests and reviews are done soon, and next time include this tire. I expect this would be an excellent AT on snow and ice, and good at everything else.​

---

Is Winter traction important to you? Some top rated ATs are RMA snow flake rated Winter traction devices. I believe the best for Winter road traction are Kumho Road Venture AT KL78, Nokian Rotiva AT, Michelin LTX AT2, Hankook ATM, Hercules AT2, and Cooper ATW. The Kumho is a good, low cost, value option; the Nokian Rotiva, Michelin LTX AT2, and Hankook ATM are expensive, highend options. The Hercules AT2 is a mid-price option. I prefer Nokian over Michelin because I think the Nokian would be better off road and equally excellent on road. The Hankook ATM and Hercules AT2 are comparable to Nokian and Michelin for Winter traction, but the Hankook and Hercules have more off road ability in regard to traction and toughness. However, the Hankook ATM makes more noise on road. The others mentioned in this paragraph are exceptionally quiet on road. The Hercules AT2 shares same carcass and tread compound as Cooper AT3, and same soft ride as Cooper AT3, but different tread and more sipes than Cooper AT3. The Cooper ATW is to new to have been tested or ranked by reviewers yet, but I think over the next year's time it will prove to be one of the best AT's for Winter traction.

My personal favorite ATs for combination on and off road, and Winter roads, are Hankook ATM and Hercules AT2.

Those are your best AT choices for traction on snow AND ICE. Several other top ranked ATs are rated excellent on snow, but only fair on ice (Cooper AT3, BFG AT, and Firestone AT for examples).

---

Is mud traction important to you? My Cooper AT3 have taken me uphill in 4" deep mud in 2wd (open diffs) without spinning. I never intend to go mudding. I like trail riding, but in a rain forest trail riding usually involves some mudding. I usually do it in 2wd. Occasionally I need 4wd, but not often. I haven't even needed to air down the tires because they ride soft enough and have good traction at street pressure.

It's not yet known how the Cooper ATW will do in mud. I suspect it might do well since it's essentially a Cooper AT3 modified with a slightly softer tread compound, more sipes, and slightly smaller voids. The smaller voids won't be helpful in mud, but even though the ATW voids are smaller than AT3 voids, the ATW still has larger voids than most other ATs. So I'm hopeful the ATW will be reasonably decent in mud. It will certainly be an improvement for Winter conditions.

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Observations... I notice most highly rated ATs have 5 rows of tread blocks. Silent Armor is an exception with 6 rows of tread blocks. Kumho Road Venture AT KL78 is an exception with 4 rows of tread blocks. I suspect more rows of tread blocks might be more stable at high speeds, and might hydroplane less (more rows = more circumferential grooves.)

===

Edited in Later: Later in this thread, respect for Hankook ATM rises, and Hercules AT2 and Mastercraft AXT (cousins of Cooper AT3) are introduced. The Hankook ATM and Hercules AT2 are reputed to be exceptionally good on Winter roads. Also introduced later is Hercules Avalanche Xtreme LT, which is an excellent Winter tire that's rated for year round use. The Avalanche might also serve as an AT year round, which will be discussed.

Edited in Later: I just saw an XJ with new Multi-Mile Wild Country XTX Sport LT that looked like really good AT to my eye. A great mix of large and small treadblocks and large and small voids, and lots of sipes for wet pavement and ice traction. Looks like a great AT to me, but I haven't seen any reviews of it. For what it's worth, I'd buy it.

Edited in Later: Later in thread we look at specific sizes. Sometimes the best tire in a given size is NOT the best in another size. Choose your favorite tires and sizes, then compare their weights, heights, load rating, tread depth, and other attributes in each size you are interested in. You may find you prefer a certain tire best in one size, but prefer another tire best in another size.

Edited in Later: Don't get a load E tire for a Jeep. The thing I don't like about Hankook is not enough load C choices. Personally, if I couldn't get a Hankook ATM in a size I want and load C, then I'll look for another brand that offers that size in C. Load E and D are to much for a Jeep - ruins gas mileage and ride quality. P are fine for on road and gravel roads, but aren't tough enough when you start doing trails or tougher. C are the right amount of toughness for a daily driver that does off road. C are intended for a 1/2 ton truck. Your Jeep is a 1/4 ton truck. So C is the right amount of overkill to give you some insurance against flats when you go off road. Also, LT tires in C (or D or E) have deeper tread than P tires. The deeper tread helps traction off road, especially in mud and snow, and it helps prevent hydroplaning on wet highway. If you're forced to choose between P or E, get the P, but C would be a better all purpose choice if you go off road.

Edited in Later: I noticed at Cooper's website in the Sport Utility section in ATW section that there are new load ratings called STD and XL. I'm not sure what those mean. I think they're something in between the old P and C ratings. If so, that provides some additional good options for a daily driver that goes off road. My impression is the STD and XL offer toughness in between P and C. The STD and XJ have the same tread depth as P rated tires, from what I've read in the specs. At this point, it seems to me that STD and XL may offer more tire options for daily drivers that sometimes go off road.

However, those two new load ratings (STD and XL) are new to me. So if anyone has more info on them, please post it.

===

Edited in a year later:

Consumer Reports has substantially changed it's AT rankings a year later. See post 967 for new rankings.

Both years Consumer Reports didn't test or rank BFG AT KO or KO2, which I think is an egregious omission on their part since that's the tire experienced people are used to comparing other tires too. Consumer Reports also has not tested or reviewed the Toyo AT2, which is another serious omission.

Both years Tire Rack has not tested or ranked any Cooper tires because tire rack doesn't sell Cooper tires.

So I have to question the impartiality and/or competence of the Consumer Reports and Tire Rack reviews and rankings, and 4x4 magazines are an unreliable source of information because the same concerns often apply to them. So take any reviews from any of those sources with a grain of salt. User reviews aren't always reliable either because once people buy something they are often biased and determined to prove they made the right choice. So any reviews must be taken with a grain of salt no matter the source. Also, remember that all user reviews and some professional reviews are based on performance in a specific climate, which might not apply to your climate.​
 
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#43 ·
Thanks Charly,

I'll be looking tires after the summer, and will switch to AT rather than MT's. I've been setting up my TJ-L for overlanding and will need a very good AT tire. I too prefer an skinny tire, I'm currently riding on 33-10.5-15's, and plan on dropping down to 31's.

I wish tire manufacturers would make an 32-9.5 or 32-10.5-15 for the U.S. market! I think they would sell quite a few!

Very informative, Thanks for your researching Charly!!!

Carlo
 
#45 ·
There is a 32 x 10.5 R16 load C for you. See below.

You could run 265/75R16 load C on 16 x 8 with 5" BS. Duratrac and Mastercraft CT are available in load C in that size. I consider then to be between AT & MT.

Also, I'm sure there are several brands of ATs available in that size too. For example, Cooper AT3 is available in that size in load C (and in load E).
 
#44 ·
I just joined this forum. I want to thank you all for the lively discussion about tires. I understand the issues involving semantics and labeling by tire manufacturers and companies that rate products--even jeepers themselves! I've been looking very closely at the Duratracs, and I'm thankful for all the pros and cons that were passed around in the discussion. I would love to see a tire made that handles all circumstances and driving situations -- tough sidewall and aggressive enough tread pattern to handle offload driving, including a bit of rock crawling, and at the same time, ride smooth and quiet on the road and handle well in wet situations. For me and my TJ and my driving needs the Duratrac probably is the best choice. I have BFG AT's on now (31x10.50x15) and while they're tough as nails and great on the road, they get pretty squirrelly on slick surfaces in the winter, especially as they wear. I've run Toyo's on pickups for years and I love them, but I fear their weight will effect mpg. So unless anyone has the miracle solution for someone like me who runs a basically stock TJ, then I thank you very much for putting all that information and opinion out there for people like me. Can't be too informed about major purchases.
 
#47 ·
I think an AT would be better on road, Duratrac better off road, but all best ATs and Duratrac are good all around all purpose tires. IMO

Did you see the tug of war between BFG AT and Cooper AT3 in mud and slushy snow? The Cooper AT3 is way better in mud than BFG AT. My personal experiences show the same. I have owned BFG AT and Cooper AT3 both in 30 x 9.5 R15 on stock XJs. The Cooper AT3 is defineatley a lot better in/on mud that BFG AT.

I don't know if Cooper AT3 has enough mud ability for your needs, but it certainly beats BFG AT in mud. I'm sure Duratrac has more mud ability than any AT, but there are trade offs for that on road.

I am not going to suggest what is best tire for you. I suggest that (IMO) it's either Hankook ATM, Toyo AT2, Cooper AT3, or Duratrac. Consider your on and off road needs and choose the balance you want. Then choose your tire.
 
#46 ·
I sometimes recommend Duratrac (when I think it's appropriate).

I recommended Duratrac to my cousin. My cousin has tried ATs and MTs on his 4x4 work truck. He owns a logging and saw-milling company.

He drives long distances on highway to jobs. Sometimes 2 hours each way. When he arrives a the job(s), he drives on sharp rocks logging roads, wet fields, wet trails, and off road in mud. He also lives in mountains and during Winter must drive on snow and ice both on and off road.

He doesn't like ATs because he was often getting stuck in mud when off road. He doesn't like MTs because he says they are slick on Winter roads, and bad gas mileage.

I thinks he might like Cooper AT3, Hankook ATM, or Toyo AT2. He's never tried those because they are new. I think he'd probably like Cooper AT3 since it's known to be good in mud (for an AT), and we've both been impressed with my Cooper AT3 on hard wet slick mud. (I haven't tried AT3 in deep mud yet)

However, he's jaded with trying ATs or MTs. He wants something in between that meets all his traction needs and is more civilized on highway than a MT.

I recommended he try Duratrac, or Mastercraft Courser CT, because I consider them to be hybrid tires (part AT, part MT). I figure a hybrid (aka commercial traction) tire would be the best all around for his needs.

So he talked to my local tire store where they sell Duratrac, Mastercraft CT, Cooper AT3, Hankook ATM, and everything else (except Firestone and Toyo).

The tire store owner told us they are aggressive commercial traction tires.The Duratrac would ride nicer (softer), but that's not a priority to my cousin. The Duratrac would have better traction on Winter roads. He likes that. The Mastercraft CT has the tougher sidewalls. They'd have approx equal traction off road. The Mastercraft CT has a lower price and lasts a very long time.

Of those two, I'd prefer Duratrac for better ride quality and Winter traction. My cousin like the Duratrac's better Winter traction, but he also likes the Mastercraft CT's lower price, tougher sidewalls, and long life. He is still undecided. If it was me, I'd get Duratrac for this application.

However, I wouldn't put Duratracs on my XJ because I don't do enough mudding to need them, and the Cooper AT3 are good enough for my little bit of mud needs, and the Cooper AT3 are (IMO) more civilized on highway.
 
#48 ·
ADragg:

You posted in another thread that you just purchased your Duratracs. So how familiar with them are you? I think you are caught up in the euphoria of having just purchased new tires, and you are feeling an emotional need to aggressively defend and promote them to assure yourself that you made the right buying decision.

What I said about Duratrac is NOT all speculation. I have talked at length with local people (interviewed them) who personally use Duratrac and sell them, and they also sell most brands of ATs, including Hankook ATM, Cooper AT3, BFG AT, Silent Armor, Hercules, Nokian, Kelly, Dunlop, General, and most other brands of ATs, MTs, and commercial traction tires (hybrids).

They have shared their first hand experiences with me. Their info is unbiased because they use and sell Duratrac and many competing brands.

Their first hand experiences are valid, and unlike you, they are unbiased because they sell most major brands (and several minor brands), and they personally use many of these tires on their trucks. They aren't married to one tire. Their ego isn't wrapped up in defending one tire.

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I think I read in an earlier post you saying Duratrac is the only snow flake rated AT.

There are so many snow flake rated AT that there are to many to list here.

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Tire Rack and Consumer Reports didn't omit Duratrac from their reviews. They include Duratrac in their Commercial Traction category reviews, NOT in their AT category reviews. FYI - Duratrac is the top rated commercial traction tire at both websites. I posted that twice before, but you refused to acknowledge that.

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You're really self righteous and fired up over nothing. Call the Duratrac whatever you want. Categorize it however you want. Love it all you want. It's your opinion and that it fine, but you can have and state your opinion without attacking or belittling others' opinions.

Duratrac is a good tire, but your personal experiences are not more valid than the local Duratrac users I interviewed, including some who use and sell it. These people have years of experience using and selling Duratrac. You just bought yours. Who do you think knows more about Duratrac, guys who've run and sold it for years, or a guy who just bought his?

Why would people who personally use and sell Duratrac tell me most ATs are better on road than Duratrac? Because that is their experience. Most brands of ATs they sell cost less than Duratrac. So they are losing money telling me about their experiences, but they are good guys who want to sell the best tire for the specific customer's needs, even if it costs less. For my cousin, they recommended Duratrac because he needs more mud ability and doesn't care as much about on road as I do.

Don't get upset over tire terminology at a forum. We aren't worth it.

Classify and describe Duratrac however you want. I have my opinion and will do as I want. If you guys all agree on how it should be classified, I'll be a team player and call it whatever you guys want, and classify it however you want. However, I doubt you'll come to agreement with each other because its classification is a grey area, which is exactly why you should have some tolerance for other opinions on the subject.

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Enjoy your new Duratracs you recently purchased. You made a good choice for your needs. Be happy. Go in peace.
 
#49 ·
P.S. - for ADragg about tire pressure.

Since you just purchased new Duratracs, I'll point this out. Tire stores usually substantially over-inflate new tires they just mounted. If you are driving on over-inflated Duratracs, they probably are as quiet as AT running at proper tire pressure. If your Duratrac's are over inflated, they are running mostly on the AT-like center treads with the MT-like outer treads mostly not touching the ground.

Do a chalk test to determine proper tire pressure, or use the tire pressure formula (I prefer the classic formula + 6% to 8% extra) to determine the proper tire inflation so you can get a reasonably flat contact patch and still have good handling on road. Then you'll have good tread wear, traction, and best possible combination of soft ride and good cornering ability.

With a proper tire pressure, your outer lugs will be touching the ground. Then you'll hear the true amount of noise the tire makes. This is true of any tire.
 
#50 ·
We had Duratracs. Bought them because everywhere I read on internet forums people said they were great tires for everything.
Well, don't believe everything posted on the internet.
The factory Rubicon BFGs were better in heavy rain and the snow we get here in SoCal. They were pretty good in the desert type dry terrain we have most of the year. Also did well in light mud, but never had them in the deep dark mud of the east.
I did not like the fact that they needed re-balancing about every 15k. Wife hated the noise they made so much she almost sold the JK, and they got noisier (alot more) as they wore.
Never did have issues with the supposedly weak sidewalls so thats a positive thing I guess. Oh, and they lasted 55k miles.
Now we have Toyo AT2s, and after several thousand miles they are better in every way so far...
 
#51 ·
What I posted about Duratracs was based mostly on second hand info from asking questions of Duratrac users in my local area. I think they gave me good info since they have used them for a long time, and one of these guys uses and sells it, along with most brands of ATs, MTs, and (dare I say) hybrids. I have also read a few professional reviews of Duratrac, and many amateur user reviews. So I know a lot of second hand info about Duratrac. I wasn't "just speculating" about Duratrac.

It's nice to have your post that mentions your first hand experiences using Duratrac for thousands of miles.

I have nothing against Duratracs. I think they are a great tire for people who want a combination of AT and MT (or a hybrid of the two), but it's not fully an AT, and I don't believe anyone who says it's as quiet as a quiet AT because I have been told (by local Duratrac users and a seller) that it's noisier than a typical AT (and my common sense agrees - look at the MT-like outer lugs! Duh!). I think the problem with Duratrac is they are misrepresented (by Goodyear and some enthusiast posters) as being an AT. Then based on that, unsuspecting people who want an AT buy Duratrac expecting AT noise levels and gas mileage, which is impossible. That is exactly what my local tire store owner (who has Duratracs on his pickup and sells Duratrac) was warning me about. He didn't want me buying Duratracs and then complaining about noise and gas mileage. That is why he suggested an AT would be better for me. He considers Duratrac to be a great commercial traction tire, but NOT and AT. So his opinion and advice are in agreement with Tire Rack and Consumer Reports who classify it as Commercial Traction (and rate it the best commercial traction tire, though that is debatable since Mastercraft CT is a great commercial traction tire).

Local Duratrac users had no complaints about it, but they did tell me it's not an AT, and if I wanted AT road manners, quietness, and gas mileage (low rolling resistance) to get a true AT.​

I appreciate you posting about your 1st hand experiences with Toyo Open Country AT2. I'd like to hear more. Please post about performance on various off road terrains, Winter roads, wet and dry highway, noise, gas mileage (rolling resistance), what tire pressure you run, etc. Also, which version of Toyo AT2 do you have? The P, LT, or Xtreme? What size tires and wheels do you have? Approx how heavy is your Jeep? Stock or built?

There is a shortage of professional reviews about Toyo Open Country AT2, and I don't know a single local user of it. You are the ONLY online person I've heard from who uses it. It's such a new tire that good first hand or even second hand info is hard to find, and professional reviews-tests are very rare.

The only things I know about it are from one professional review at a truck forum, what Toyo's website says, and what my tire experience and common sense tells me (tells me it's probably good). I'd like to know more about your first hand experiences with Toyo AT2.

Thanks!

===

P.S. - the reason I didn't include Toyo AT2 in the AT rankings is because it's to new and (at this time) there is a lack of info about it, and it wasn't tested, reviewed, or ranked by Tire Rack or Consumer Reports because it's to new. I am reasonably confident it's one of the best ATs, but that is only speculation. This is why we'd love to hear more from you about Toyo AT2.
 
#52 ·
So far, only my wife has driven them in the rain, she likes them. Who knows when we'll get mud, but when we do, I (or she) will hit it. Snow is still 6-8 months away, but will post up with how they perform.
The Toyos are 35x12.50-17, Extreme, running 33 psi. Mounted on 17x7.5 Moab wheels on a '09 Rubicon Unlimited. When I get an opportunity, I will weigh it and add our family of 5 to give the normal running weight. Gas mileage is up to around 19 hwy, were as with the Duratracs it was 16-17.
 
#55 ·
P.S. - 245/75R16 tires are available in passenger P rated, and load C rated from some tire brands, and I think are always offered in load E.

You want P or C. I'd go with C.

Cooper AT3, Toyo AT2, and Duratrac are available in 245/75R15 load C, and I think also in P.
Probably many other brands-models too.

Load E are available in all brands, but I advise against using load D or E on a light SUV.
 
#56 ·
For those interested in 30 x 9.5R15, see this thread. It includes a list of all brands-models available.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f15/list-available-30-x-9-5-r15-tires-daily-driver-xj-zj-tj-1523888/

I'm going to start a thread about 245/75R16 tires (30.5 x 9.5 R16) (when I have time). It will include a list of all brands-models available in P and load C.

For those interested in 33 x 10.5 R15 see this thread. It includes a list of all brands-models available.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f15/list-brands-models-33-x-10-5-r15-tires-1533186/

I might also start a thread about 255/85R16 (32.7 to 32.8 x 10 R16) when I have time. For now, I'll just say that the load D tires might be attractive for Unlimited LJ and JK, and Grand Cherokees, and other heavier Jeeps. This size tire is available in load D and E.

For those wanting to compare narrow vs skinny tires, see this thread.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f15/whats-better-10-5-12-5-wide-tires-1531973/
 
#58 ·
So many times we see advice geared towards some extreme that we forget that most of us are just looking for a good all around tire. Sometimes you have to spend money to get quality but often you just end up paying for a name. Tires are one of those things that you can save money on and still get a good product. This thread goes a long way to help achieve that goal. I had a set of 10ply rated BCT tires (some type of economy brand made in China) on a 3/4ton Dodge Cummins that were cheaper and far better that the Firestones they replaced. I got the BCT's out of necessity when I destroyed two tires on a Saturday morning and they were the only thing available. They turned out to be good tires. I'm currently running a set of General AT2's on a TJ and they seem to be good tires as well and far cheaper than the run of the mill BF Goodrich AT's. It's helpful to read what others have learned.
Thanks Charley, good info.
 
#60 ·
I agree. I don't want extremes. I want practical for everyday needs.

I want a daily driver tire with good to excellent year round highway performance as 1st priority, Winter road traction as 2nd priority, ride quality (soft ride) as 3rd priority, decent (or better) off road performance as 4th priority, and tire life as 5th priority.

Cost is not an issue to me, but it is for some. For value priced greatness, you can't beat Cooper AT3 and Kumho Road Venture SAT KL61.​

I started this thread to help others find their combination of priorities they want. I found my ideal tire in Cooper AT3, but there are other tires that could fit the same priorities. Hankook ATM and Toyo AT2 would also fit my priorities, but Cooper AT3 rides the softest and that is important for my bad back.

There are some tires that place even higher priority on highway performance (and less off road) that are great tires. Kumho Road Venture SAT KL61 comes to mind. Widely reviewed as being great on road, and OK off road. Perfect for someone who drives mostly on road, and a great price too. The same can be said of Michelin LTX AT2, which is great on road, very good on Winter roads, and OK off road, but Michelin is expensive. IMO, these two tires have all season tread with AT toughness. They are kind of a crossbreed between AS and AT. IMO

Personally, I prefer a little more off road ability than Kumho SAT or Michelin LTX AT2 offer, and that's why I prefer Cooper AT3, Hankook ATM, and Toyo AT2 - they are better off road and still good on road. IMO

BFG AT is also good for my priorities, but is expensive, and these other tires do the same job as well or better for less money. IMO.

I have owned some of the tires reviewed (BFG AT, General Grabber AT2, Cooper AT3). I researched all the tires as thoroughly as I could. For anyone who'd criticize me for reviewing tires I haven't owned, let me point out the obvious. No one person has owned all the tires. If tire threads were restricted to only people who have owned them, then it would be impossible to review and compare them all in one thread. The only way to review, compare, and rank many tires is to rely on a combination of personal first hand experience when possible, second hand user experience when possible (interviewing people who've owned them. and reading user reviews), and second hand experience from professional tire reviewers (4x4 magazines, truck magazines, Consumer Reports, etc). That's as good as anyone can do for comparing and ranking all major brands and some minor brands of AT. If anyone has made a better thread comparing all major brands and some minor brands of AT, please post a link to it.
 
#61 ·
Update Cooper AT3 30 x 9.5 R15

Compared to General Grabber AT2 30 x 9.5 R15

Same street tire pressures in both brands of tires. 27 front, 24.5 rear, and no airing down off road.

The Cooper AT3 rides much softer and has noticeably more traction on steep gravel roads. The Cooper AT3 never slips in 2wd. On the same roads, the General Grabber AT2 would slip a little. The Cooper AT2 is more pliable (less stiff) and it seems to conform better to terrain.

One indication of this is when running over the occasional baseball size rock with Grabber AT2, it was a harsh bump and that corner of the XJ would lift up as I drove up and over the rock, and of going up a steep hill the rock would roll under the tire. In the same situation with Cooper AT2 it goes over the baseball size rock with barely a bump, the corner of XJ does not lift up as much, and the rock doesn't roll and traction is good.

---

Mud traction. I previously reported the Cooper AT3 did really well in 2wd on hard slick mud going up a steep hill. Yesterday I accidentally got into deeper, wetter, stickier, suckionier mud. The XJ sank 4", though the mud was much deeper.

When I got out to check the road, my shoes almost got sucked off.

The XJ with open diff and Cooper AT3 was able to easily drive through the mud in 2wd with only a few slips and no spinning while I was going forward. I did have to put in 4wd to back up. No spinning or slipping in 4wd.

That is amazingly good mud performance for an AT that's as quiet on road as an all season tire.

I didn't even air down the tires! Though, I do run them slightly low side for street. 27 psi front and 24.5 psi rear, which gives perfect contact patch for 30 x 9.5 R15 on stock XJ and works good on and off road. The only thing I'd air down for is driving up sand dunes.

These Cooper AT3 continue to impress and exceed expectations, and are much better than any other AT I previously owned.
 
#62 ·
Goodyear silentarmor with kevlar. Low road noise good puncture resistance in the rocks. They sipe well in heavy rain , clean out well in snow. Mud is not their strong point , but we are talking an at tire. I would say the biggest downfall is the unavailabilty of tire sizes above 285 17 ish range. If they came in 35's I'd buy a set.
 
#64 ·
Simply put for a Jeeper's perspective:

My Kumho Road Venture SAT KL61s are virtually perfect on the road. To be clear, I'm using a stock size of 225/75r15, not 30x9.5--not sure if that makes a difference, but thought I'd mention it anyway. They generate no road noise that can be heard above all the natural road/wind noise of an XJ (so I'm not sure if they could be heard on a quieter vehicle or not).

My ride improved over my old tires. I don't remember what they were, but they were some low-end Sam's Club ultra-crummy highway tires or something.

My average MPG remains at a healthy 18, and I'm still capable of achieving 20-21 highway when the planets are aligned.

In all road conditions their traction is top-notch. Even in a blizzard, they have been very sure-footed to the point of not losing traction unless I force them to.

I have not tested them off road extensively yet. Gravel, dry dirt path, dry short/long grass: they're great. I doubt they'll handle any significant mud well, but hardly any AT tire does. I have have not driven in any other looser or more rugged/technical terrain/substrates yet.
 
#66 ·
My choice of 225 was quite deliberate to keep them narrow and light for daily driving (and cheaper in price). Anywhere I need them off road, upsizing would provide little to no improvement compared to how they already perform. I'm not a wheeler, and they've already proven they can get me from point A to point B in my typical off road destinations flawlessly.

A 2-3" lift is planned for the future not so much for the lift but because I want OME, and it isn't available in a stock height. Assuming it will be about 2", I will then have approx 30" tires under it for cosmetic reasons.

I have no practical need for 30" tires; stock size is quite adequate for me, and I feel no need to conform with other Jeepers for conformity's sake. I'm not saying that there are no benefits to larger tires--for some people, there are. There are no benefits for me, however, so if I upsize it will simply be to keep a lifted Jeep from looking goofy.
 
#67 ·
My choice of 225 was quite deliberate to keep them narrow and light for daily driving (and cheaper in price). Anywhere I need them off road, upsizing would provide little to no improvement compared to how they already perform. I'm not a wheeler, and they've already proven they can get me from point A to point B in my typical off road destinations flawlessly.

A 2-3" lift is planned for the future not so much for the lift but because I want OME, and it isn't available in a stock height. Assuming it will be about 2", I will then have approx 30" tires under it for cosmetic reasons.
Cosmetic reasons that come with benefits. ;)

I purchased OME lift springs front and rear (not installed yet) to improve my ride quality. So I understand your thinking about springs. I think mine will be about 1.25" to 1.5" lift (with skid plates and the softest OME springs).

I am putting on OME heavy load TJ springs in front because 140 lbs/in spring rate will ride nice. Stock XJ springs are 147 lbs/in rate. OME light load XJ front springs are 160 lbs/in rate.
 
#68 ·
I went off roading today on a trail that started as a gravel road, soon became a dirt road, and then became a wet muddy trail where springs were making dirt trail in to a mud trail.

All this road and trail was through the woods, cut into the side of a mountain with a cliff on the downhill side and a steep muddy hill above.

Very scenic.

It got really interesting driving down the muddy creek bank, through the muddy creek bed, and up the muddy creek bank on the other side. The banks weren't steep, but they defineately had some slope/grade and were a bit challenging with the mud. The mud was slick and sticky, but did have a bottom about 4" down.

Three things amaze me. I was able to do this with ATs. I did NOT air down. It was easy. I did it in 2wd with open diff.

I had a few tire slips, like approx 1/2 to 3/4 rotation of a rear tire, but no spinning. I was prepared to spin the tires to clean them, but it wasn't necessary.

30 x 9.5 R15 Cooper Discoverer AT3 are serving me well and amazing me with the best mud performance I've ever experienced with an AT.

They are also good on highway. Quieter than other ATs I've had, and better cornering than other ATs I've had. They never hydroplane on wet highway. They ride soft for a load C tire, which eats the bumps and smooths the ride. On road they are almost like having a highway passenger car tire.

I'm looking forward to taking them to the beach this summer and trying them in sand. Also looking forward to next Winter to try them on snow and ice. Reviews I've read say they are good at all those things. I am looking forward to trying those terrains.
 
#69 ·
Charley3 said:
I went off roading today on a trail that started as a gravel road, soon became a dirt road, and then became a wet muddy trail where springs were making dirt trail in to a mud trail.

All this road and trail was through the woods, cut into the side of a mountain with a cliff on the downhill side and a steep muddy hill above.

Very scenic.

It got really interesting driving down the muddy creek bank, through the muddy creek bed, and up the muddy creek bank on the other side. The banks weren't steep, but they defineately had some slope/grade and were a bit challenging with the mud. The mud was slick and sticky, but did have a bottom about 4" down.

Three things amaze me. I was able to do this with ATs. I did NOT air down. It was easy. I did it in 2wd with open diff.

I had a few tire slips, like approx 1/2 to 3/4 rotation of a rear tire, but no spinning. I was prepared to spin the tires to clean them, but it wasn't necessary.

30 x 9.5 R15 Cooper Discoverer AT3 are serving me well and amazing me with the best mud performance I've ever experienced with an AT.

They are also good on highway. Quieter than other ATs I've had, and better cornering than other ATs I've had. They never hydroplane on wet highway. They ride soft for a load C tire, which eats the bumps and smooths the ride. On road they are almost like having a highway passenger car tire.

I'm looking forward to taking them to the beach this summer and trying them in sand. Also looking forward to next Winter to try them on snow and ice. Reviews I've read say they are good at all those things. I am looking forward to trying those terrains.
You won't be disappointed come winter. There's a reason I'm sticking with the at3 for my next set of tires... Just getting bigger ones this time round ;)
 
#70 ·


my hankook dynapro atm's do well on the hiway and are a little bit noisy but i dont mind it at all

on the interstate they control awesome at 55-90 dont know about higher speeds i dont drive that fast

on the snow they were awesome and slipped only when i wanted them too ( tried really hard to , lol )

the one exception was during a blizzard with 50 mph wind blowing at my side and i was driving on ice so i had to go 35-40 instead of the normal 50-55 on the snow/ice

when one side is in deep water at high speed it feels kinda weird but in control and not crazy scary

on a very steep sand hill they dug down some with too much throttle but they did get me over it though

on soft dirt i had no problems with traction on some very tough ruts and deep soft dirt

control on gravel is good but i stay under 45 on it because i hate driving on gravel so i dont know about higher speeds

i dont do mud so i cant say about that

on the street they ride nice , braking is better and acceleration too

they are not showing signs of fast wear or over inflation

my size is 225/75/16 and i got 5 for $595 from discount tire direct last year they are cheaper the last time i checked

i keep them at 37.5 psi with a great ride and mpg ( 16.4 avg. with a lead foot and v-8 )

i rate them 10 out of 10

oh , they look cool too
 
#72 ·
I think you might be using to much air pressure.

The Hankook ATM and Cooper AT3 are my two favorite ATs. The Toyo AT2 might be great to, but to early to know yet (its new). These 3 tires are similar in tread pattern and design, but have some interesting differences.

The Cooper AT3 is slightly better on mud than Hankook ATM, but both are good for ATs.

The Hankook ATM is slightly better on ice than Cooper AT3, but AT3 is adequate (typical for AT).

Both are great on snow.

Both are great on all other terrains on and off road.

Both have very good on road handling (breaking and cornering).

Cooper AT3 is quiet. Hankook ATM noise is typical for an AT (similar to BFG AT).

Both ride better (softer) than most brands of AT. Cooper AT3 rides the softest.

---

If you drive on ice often, the Hankook ATM is a better choice than Cooper AT3.

If you drive on mud often, the Cooper AT3 is a better choice than Hankook ATM.

For on road comfort (quiet and soft riding) get Cooper AT3, but Hankook ATM has good comfort ratings too.

For all other traction and handling issues, they are equivalent. One is as good as the other.
 
#74 ·
What is on the sidewall of the tire is simply the max pressure the tire is rated to hold. It has nothing to do with how much pressure you should run under a given vehicle. If you ran 50 psi on those tires, your ride would be awful, and you'd wear-out the center of your tread in no time. That little sticker on the door IS the authority for stock sizes and on-road driving--no "lol" about it.

That having been said....36 psi is the officially recommended pressure for a 97 ZJ with 225/75r16, so you're close enough. If you were to drastically change tire size/type, your optimal pressure would shift.
 
#75 ·
What is on the sidewall of the tire is simply the max pressure the tire is rated to hold. It has nothing to do with how much pressure you should run under a given vehicle. If you ran 50 psi on those tires, your ride would be awful, and you'd wear-out the center of your tread in no time. That little sticker on the door IS the authority for stock sizes and on-road driving--no "lol" about it.
you sir are wrong please stop spreading misinformation , the tires are designed to be able to hold that much air and it is because the extra load capacity of the tires depends on the extra air so it has everything to do with how much you should have in the tire

my zj is never loaded with that much crap and i dont tow so i keep them where they feel good and wear correctly

That having been said....36 psi is the officially recommended pressure for a 97 ZJ with 225/75r16, so you're close enough. If you were to drastically change tire size/type, your optimal pressure would shift.
officially who says that , jeep ? the door ? because 225/75/16 was not offered stock

thank you in advance for not spreading b.s. like seeds :teehee: :wave: :rtft: :nono:
 
#76 ·
970001zj said:
you sir are wrong please stop spreading misinformation , the tires are designed to be able to hold that much air and it is because the extra load capacity of the tires depends on the extra air so it has everything to do with how much you should have in the tire

my zj is never loaded with that much crap and i dont tow so i keep them where they feel good and wear correctly

officially who says that , jeep ? the door ? because 225/75/16 was not offered stock

thank you in advance for not spreading b.s. like seeds :teehee: :wave: :rtft: :nono:
225/70r16 is listed as a stock size according to a search I did. The dimensions and volume of your size are insignificantly different from the stock size for which Jeep specifies 36 psi. If you want to split hairs down to an atomically small level, your tires have slightly more volume which means you'd need less pressure, but the difference is so small as to be completely insignificant. If you REALLY don't want to believe me, go ask the ZJ guys what pressure you should use, or wait for other tire guys to chime-in. Not sure why you're even getting all bent out of shape about it--37 is close enough. I'm not yelling at you to drop them by 1 psi. I'm saying that despite Charley's expertise, he's wrong this time and that your pressure is fine.

Regarding hauling loads, of course you should tweak your tire pressure as load or vehicle weight changes, but sidewall rating is not what you should be using. It is simply a maximum pressure for that tire--the sidewall doesn't have a brain; it doesn't know how heavy your vehicle is nor how much you've loaded it with. That sidewall rating exists to simply tell you "never exceed 50 psi." You can scream about me spreading misinformation all you want, but that won't make it true.
 
#77 ·
225/75/15 was offered but not 16'' just saying for the record not because im bent out of shape

there is enough misinformation on the net and it has no place here

i dont need to ask any zj guys about tire pressure as i can tell the difference between to much and too little

also you need to do some research about load ratings and pressures
 
#78 ·
970001zj said:
225/75/15 was offered but not 16'' just saying for the record not because im bent out of shape

there is enough misinformation on the net and it has no place here

i dont need to ask any zj guys about tire pressure as i can tell the difference between to much and too little

also you need to do some research about load ratings and pressures
No, I really don't, and there WERE 16" wheels available, and their tire size was 225/70, and, once again, for your nearly identical tire size, 37 psi is just fine regardless of how you arrived at it. I will add that this is all assuming that your Jeep is still roughly stock weight and that your tires have a load rating appropriate to your Jeep's weight.

Proper tire pressure is about more than feel/ride quality. It can really impact how your tires wear, and if you can fine-tune pressures by feel, you're super-powered. I've done more research than you'd believe on this and hundreds to thousands of other subjects (not all Jeep related of course), and while I'm the first to admit that there is always more to learn and that everyone is fallible, I'm VERY confident with my level of knowledge on this rather basic subject.

These are my final words on this subject. I can guarantee that I'll always be researching and learning more about this topic and many more because I love to learn and am a huge perfectionist, so if I AM somehow so wrong, I'll find-out eventually and change accordingly. Can you say the same, or will you just stick to your guns regardless of whether or not you may be wrong? I'm not interested in "winning" any arguments--just learning facts/truths and sharing them with others.

Back to Charley's topic:
I'd like to add that my Kumho SATs are very quiet. They're one of the quietest AT tires I've driven on (possibly the quietest, but there's no way to be sure without back-to-back comparison). Among ALL tires, they are clearly not the quietest, but that's no surprise. People have commented to me that they like the styled sidewalls, but I do not. The pattern in my opinion is far too..."flamboyant" and really clashes with all the straight lines/hard edges of a 84-96 XJ.
 
#79 · (Edited)
No, I really don't, and there WERE 16" wheels available, and their tire size was 225/70/16 not 225/75/16
fify and i know , i have the 16'' wheels .

Proper tire pressure is about more than feel/ride quality. It can really impact how your tires wear, and if you can fine-tune pressures by feel, you're super-powered.
wow thanks i WAS born yesterday ! and its a little more complicated than that but yeah

Clearly you're uninterested in anything I have to say,
I'm the first to admit that there is always more to learn and that everyone is fallible, I'm VERY confident with my level of knowledge on this rather basic subject.
its good that you said you were wrong , it shows character and maturity

because I love to learn and am a huge perfectionist, so if I AM somehow so wrong, I'll find-out eventually and change accordingly. Can you say the same, or will you just stick to your guns regardless of whether or not you may be wrong?
prove me wrong then

I'm not interested in "winning" any arguments--just learning facts/truths and sharing them with others.
im just keeping it factual :rtft:

EDIT:V

also i see you have been modifying your posts in a vain attempt to make yourself look less inept

cowardly action there , i will remember to quote your posts fully in the future so as to show your posting's in all theyr pitiful glory
 
#80 ·
Wow, a lot of crap going around in this thread. :) I can't even figure out what's going on.

In any case, here are some great AT tires I've used: Hankook ATM, Firestone AT, Toyo AT, Mastercraft Courser AT and MT, Cooper ATP, BFG KO, General AT2, Goodyear Duratrac, Falken ATS, Cooper CT, and a few others.

Some that stand out:

Goodyear Duratrac is the perfect tire for the daily driver and occasional weekend trail toy. They are quieter than a MT, but bite almost as hard in the mud as any MT I've used. They look awesome. They are very lightweight. They are siped for snow and rain. And they have a rim protection flange. I wouldn't recommend this tire to the 99% pavement guy. But to the 80% pavement 20% offroad guy it's the perfect tire.

Falken Rocky Mountain ATS (same tire as Wildpeak A/T) is garbage. Terrible wet trail and grass traction, tracked all over the road when new due to squirmy rubber compound and tread design, holds onto rocks worse than any tire I've used, extremely heavy for their size, don't even look at a mud hole or you'll get stuck. I consider this tire to be a HT tire with MT sidewalls. It's a bastard child in the tire world. Would be great for the guy who lives in the desert and runs on rocks and sand and dirt all the time. Is a terrible choice for the woodlands where it's wet and muddy and also it's not good for the highway due to it's weight and squirmy tread. (They have now released new versions of these tires with better compounds).

BFG KO/General AT2 both have an interlocked tread. This gives an aggressive look without the performance to go with it. Terrible for snow and mud because the tire can't clean itself. Higher rolling resistance means slight decrease in fuel economy. But, they both wear very well and are tough tires. I know of a set of Generals that went 80,000 on a 4,400 lb. Liberty CRD.

All the other AT tires would fall in the middle in my opinion. All are smooth and great on the road but suck offroad in the mud and snow. The average guy would be better served by one of these types of AT tires with a ribbed pattern (Hankook, Cooper AT3, Toyo, etc.) because the fuel economy will stay up and wet/dry traction will stay up for the pavement driving most people do.
 
#81 ·
Wow, a lot of crap going around in this thread. :) I can't even figure out what's going on.
It's my bad for mentioning I think someone is running a little to much tire pressure. I didn't know anyone would get upset about it. Ever since there have been off topic arguments. :brickwall

Let's all pretend I never mentioned tire pressure and go back to talking about ATs so we can be on topic again. :rtft:

Thanks :highfive:
 
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