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Frustrated with my steering. Brought on by DW?

2K views 27 replies 12 participants last post by  matteo92065 
#1 ·
It started out with all my concurrent suspension and tire upgrades. I went from a stock ’05 TJ to a 3” Curry/Savvy lift, all new steering (save steering stabilizer and steering box), & new 33” tires. Its developed a shake and death wobble since then. Its mostly a shake, but has developed into a full DW a couple of times. I’ve had the tires balanced and rotated 3 times in 500 miles. I checked and moved around my caster a few times. Plenty of dry steer tests. The track bar (new Savvy) is tight on both sides (only small compression of rubber bushing). I’ve adjusted my steering box to what I thought was near perfect. I was afraid of moving the adjustment too much, so I only gave it about ¼ turn tighter. I’ve done exhaustive reading on this forum about DW, shake, and steering boxes.
I don’t drive the jeep very much on the street partly because of this problem. {side note question: Can you have DW while flat towing? This would surely destroy your front end in a hurry!}

I like to think that I can figure everything out and fix most things by myself. I knew I needed to take it to an alignment shop to at least get the base line numbers on camber/caster/toe etc.

So I took it into a local shop and asked them to fix my jeep. The mechanic knew was DW was and was sure he could find and fix my problem. They keep my jeep for 2 days and the verdict was… The steering box. The shop said that my box had play in it and that they tightened it… a lot. But that I could expect that it would wander around a lot because the box is worn out and needs to be replaced. They said I should drive it around and evaluate it. Looking at the adjustment screw; which is normally two threads above the lock nut, is now 2-3 threads BELOW the lock nut. The shaft that the pitman arm attaches to is now really low and showing a shiny metal ring that use to be up in the box. Drove it home(6 miles), it did wander around, but very little shake/wobble. The steering wheel can now be turned an inch or two before the tires start to move. I get home and the box is covered in oil.
I’ve always suspected I might need a new steering box, but NOW I for sure need a steering box. (Let the reading and searching JF begin):rolleyes:
This is what I’ve found; since I have a 2005, I need a unique to 2003 thru 2006 box.

Choices are:
PSC at $690 plus hoses $30: Highly regarded on JF but spendy
Remanufactured from autoparts store for ~$200-300? But everyone says they are junk & hit and miss
From dealer: $905 part number: RL088993AD No Way! :eek:
Borgenson does not make anything for 03-06
ARG Superbox 2(or 1) at $389 from Quadratec. Mixed and poor reviews
Rebuild myself, but what do I need and where to get all the internal parts?

Ouch. I guess the tummy tuck will have to wait awhile. :mad:
Any suggestions on the right box would be helpful. Many of the threads are about jeeps that are not 03-06 and they have options that I don’t.
 
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#3 ·
id really like to know the outcome of this it sounds just like mine, drove great until i put a lift on now it drives like a pile of garbage. what kind of tires did you put on with the lift? i do not have death wibble though ts more of a bump steer thats real quick in the steering on hard hitting uneven bumps.
 
#5 ·
The only thing you didn't mention was the control arms. I really don't understand why I get flamed for saying it. Post-lift D/W....on stock arms? Track bar nice and tight? It's your control arms. Don't forget the axle upper bushings.

You and your mechanic really boogered your box though. That adjustment will do little to nil for a shimmy, just shorten the life of the box.
 
#8 ·
The only thing you didn't mention was the control arms. I really don't understand why I get flamed for saying it. Post-lift D/W....on stock arms? Track bar nice and tight? It's your control arms. Don't forget the axle upper bushings.

You and your mechanic really boogered your box though. That adjustment will do little to nil for a shimmy, just shorten the life of the box.
I tried to mention it in the very beginning.
control arms are very tight, Brand New JJ from Savvy.
Track bar is new from Savvy. With the Upgraded bolt that another member researched as being a much better fit. The upper axle bushings are all new JJ's from Savvy.
The suspension and tires were changed/modified many times in a short period and in groups, so its impossible to know what part caused the DW. I think that all the new tight stuff and bigger tires amplified a marginal part to begin with.

No doubt that we (I'm taking some credit too) put the last dozen nails in the steering box coffin. :( FWIW; It was suggested by many mechanics and JF threads to adjust the steering box. Is it a huge "no-no" to ever touch the adjustment screw?

I'm still hopeful that the steering box was on its way out and that it was allowing the wheels to turn back and fourth causing the DW.
 
#6 ·
Another option just opened up...
Send my box to Howeperformance (in San Diego) and they will take mine apart and rebuild it with all brand new parts. They will also weld in steering stops based on me marking the turn limits before they get it. Howeperformance says that the mode of failure on these boxes is typically at full lock the pump is still giving full pressure/force to the selector shaft and all bearings, this tears them up. He says that by welding in stop points inside of the box it will 'protect' the box from itself. I mentioned the PSC box to Howe, and they said that it could be a perfect box, but still wouldn't have internal stops. They also weld on exterior fittings for a future ram that can be capped for the time being. Turn around is 2 weeks. $~850ish.

The whole internal stop thing makes sense to me. I have steering stop washers installed at my wheels to keep the wheels from hitting the control arms. The Howe box would be working with those, not against; I like that.
 
#9 ·
Its $900+ and it is a design that's prone to fail again. I know that off roading and installing 33" tires is not what it was originally designed to handle.
I just would like to find the longest lasting, best value box available.

So why would I just get an oem box?
 
#15 ·
They are 285/75R16 MTR w/Kevlar. Brand new (1000 miles). I tried to have them spin balanced on the car by a local specialty shop, but they couldn't since it was a solid axle with non-disconnectable hubs. I had the shop rotate the tires 180 on the rims and rebalance to try that out.
There is a ton of weights stuck to the inside of all my rims. :confused:
 
#11 ·
Not sure how far you live from gerald and MrBlaine, but maybe a stop by their shop they can help you to diagnose it quickly....lots of experience in california from those two, worth the drive from anywhere in my opinion if their willing to help a fellow jeeper out.
 
#22 ·
:laugh: Its had so may rebalances in the last few weeks that they don't remove the sticky stuff anymore.

I insisted on the tire shop trying to rotate the tires 180 degrees on the rims with the hope of decreasing the amount of weight. It didn't help much with the total weight (~20% less).
 
#24 ·
New Box installed

I installed the 'new' steering box last night. But first let me give some supporting details...
I ended up buying a rebuilt box from autozone. They charged my cc, and three weeks later I called and asked where it was and they said my order was cancelled. WTF!? The distributer for autozone did not have one so that's why my order was cancelled. Why they couldn't tell me right away is still a mystery to me. Ordered another one from Napa. I came in $40 more, but I have it now.
I also ordered and received a Rancho steering stabilizer.

After removing the original steering box and original steering stabilizer I was hoping to find something obvious. The original steering box looks like it had about 3/16" of play (motion) before the input shaft would move. The original steering stabilizer felt good at first push pull, but upon closer inspection, it did have a 'dead' (no damping) spot that lasted about 3/8" anytime it changed direction. The Rancho unit has no dead spot.

Now the steering box is installed... I did notice that after purging all the air out of the new box and lines that the new box has about the same 'slop' as the old box (before it was messed with). I can move the steering wheel about 1" in both directions before the pitman arm moves. I took it for a test drive without any steering stabilizer. Got it up to 53ish and all hell breaks loose. FU**!!!:mad:

Back to the garage, jack front end up, feel for loose parts, inspect everything and install the new stabilizer. Another test drive... It is soooo smooooth! :D I drove around town for an hour last night, just enjoying the silky smooth handling.

I just don't get it :confused: I have replaced:
Steering box
Track bar
Control arms
All bushings
Steering linkages
Ball joints on steering
steering stabilizer
Balanced tires 3? times.
Two Alignment shops inspected and adjusted front end.

I have read here on JF that the Steering stabilizer is just hiding the root problem of DW. At this point I'm OK with that, let it stay hidden for a couple of months. I want to take off the doors and windows and enjoy this Jeep for the rest of the summer!

I have not returned the old box for the core charge yet. I'm going to tear it open and see if I can figure it out how it works and if its serviceable.
 
#25 ·
a few potential problems come to mind...

1. the trac bar hole on the axle could be wallowed out. if the old bar had side to side movement in it, the steel would deform over time. easily fixed with weld washers.

2. broken control arm mount? doubtful since you just replaced the arms, you would have caught that.

3. ball joints/unit bearing going bad... jack the tire off the ground and put your hands at 12 and 6, push and pull on the tire to see if there is any slop. same for 3 and 9.

4. are you road force balancing the MTRs? was the run out checked? my MTRs have a side to side movement that plays hell with the wobbles. mine balance properly, and the run out is within spec., but i can feel it. and i get the same BS about the tires being too big and agressive to properly balance.

http://www.gsp9700.com/index.htm

5. have they checked the rims to see if one is bent? maybe swap tires with someone?

and thats BS about it being impossible for a tire to be bad from the factory. I had a Duratrac sent back b/c it was bad from the get go.
 
#27 ·
bumping this for any updates...?

sounds way to familiar.....

looking for a new steering box at the moment, and not wanting to spend the cash on PSC (probably getting rid of the jeep, hopefully for a new one one in a year)

had the ball joints, unit bearings and u joints replaced a few years ago. jks lower control arms and trac bar. 33" toyo's

I get, on the highway, vibes and shakes, almost and oscillating type of feel to it that wont go away.... pretty much had it with it. (people that drive cars that take a ride on the highway with me, typically don't want to again.... and its not that its real bad, just real constant)

steering box leaks like a sieve at this point (it was actually replaced a year ago, and leaked from the start)

any updates on the new box?

and at that price, i'm tempted to go with an AGR superbox 2....?
 
#28 ·
I'm sorry to have not updated this in a timely manner.
I don't drive this vehicle very often. It has been drivable with the new steering box and steering stabilizer. That is until recently. The shaking is now getting worse. I'm afraid to get much faster than 50mph because as soon as the full blown DW starts it only gets worse till you can get it below ~20mph AS FAST AS YOU CAN. AND in the process I know that it is just damaging more parts due to the violent shaking.

It is desert season again and I plan on flat towing the Jeep and I need this damn thing fixed. I'm looking for a competent shop here in San Diego to get this thing figured out.

My first choice would be to take Savvy up on his offer, but it is just to far to drive right now. I drop off and pick kids up from school everyday.

I'll update as I find out more....
 
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