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So you want a Tummy Tuck...

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#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
So you want a Tummy Tuck

I am aware there is a thread out there similar to this in the fact that it list some of the facts about several skids on the market, but this one is complete and it just for setting up a tummy tuck. This thread will be devoted to the TJ, as this is the TJ Technical Forum and that is what most have on here. LJ's are a bit different when it comes to driveshaft requirements, but most principles still apply.

Everyone thinks they need a tummy tuck these days. They are very useful off road and even make a TJ look better because you are no longer seeing the ugly shovel. A tummy tuck takes more than just several hundred bucks to buy one, there are other things that have to be dealt with. Most decide they don't need one when they figure out how much it will cost. The stock skid not the stoutest, but will hold up to mild wheeling, and comes in at 41.5 lbs.

Depending on the Jeep you have and which route you intend on going you might need one or more of these for your tummy tuck:

1" Body Lift- All depends on how much hammering (or 'modification') you want to do on the transmission tunnel. There are various routes to go with body lifts which include JKS ($135), Daystar, Performance Accessories, Currie, etc. It seems like everyone is scared to do one of these[, whether it be due to looks or difficulty of installation.] I have seen at least 30 posts asking if they can get away with doing such and such skid without one. A lot of people that are concerned with performance think that every Jeep should have came with one from the factory. The 1" body lift is hardly noticeable and will allow other mods like a high clearance gas tank skid. They also help lift the body without changing the COG very much, reducing the amount of bumpstop you need to clear a given tire size.

Motor Mount Lift (MML)- Is needed when doing any high clearance t-case skid on a Jeep that has a suspension lift of 2" or more. Stockers can usually get away with out it, but if you are doing a tummy tuck chances are you aren't keeping the stock suspension height. The reason this needs to be done is when you are stuffing your tranny and tcase farther up you want to tilt the output shaft of the tcase down to help with the geometry you are messing with. By bringing the front of the engine up, you will be able to tilt the output shaft of the tcase down. There are various ways to lift your motor which include JKS(spacers-$60), Brown Dog(full replacement-$84), and M.O.R.E(full replacement-$139). If you choose new motor mounts instead of the spacers, get the rubber bushing versions to reduce engine vibrations. Poly bushings **can** transmit more engine vibrations, but they greatly reduce engine movement and will not degrade as fast as rubber. Rubber's lifespan is usually a few decades...so its your choice.

Double Cardan Driveshaft- Is needed when doing any skid on a Jeep that has been lifted 1.5- 2" or more via its suspension. Stockers can usually get away without it, but if you are doing a tummy tuck chances are you aren't keeping the stock suspension height. Will be needed, Rubicon or not. There are a few out there (Currie, Teraflex, ect, but only one that I would go with- Tom Woods which run around $315 (Quadratec).

Slip Yoke Eliminator (SYE)- Is needed when doing any skid on a Jeep that has been lifted 1.5-2" or more via its suspension. Stockers can usually get away without it, but if you are doing a tummy tuck chances are you aren't keeping the stock suspension height. If you have a Rubicon, you will not need one of these. Many people say that the Rubicon already has an SYE, but that is incorrect. It would have to have a slip yoke in the first place to elimininate it - Rubicons have fixed flange rear outputs. There are several good kits on the market such as Advance Adapters ($270 Quadratec), JB Conversions($300-$400), Rubicon Express ($330)

Rear upper adjustable control arms- Will be needed to rotate your pinion upward. There will be some fine tuning to eliminate driveshaft vibrations. Rokmen and Currie are the only ones I would consider when dropping money on them as of right now. Rokmen-$249. Currie- ($229)

More info on SYE/CV shafts & pinion angle: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/what-cv-shaft-why-do-i-want-one-854790/

CV trackbar bracket-This angled bracket will be needed for your trackbar when rotating the pinion. With out this bracket your stock or adjustable trackbar will bind. Rubicon Express-$70

Rear lower shock mount extenders- When rotating your pinion up, you will find that the can of your shock (if you have piston down, you may not have this problem) will rub the axle. Some extensions like those from Currie-$30 will get the job done. If you're looking for maximum flex, this is a good time to consider shock mount relocation to use long travel shocks - read here: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/low-lift-long-shocks-diy-shock-shifters-whats-advantage-852221/

Spring perch modications- Will sometimes have to be done, but I personally have not seen a Jeep that has absolutely needed it. Rotating the pinion will cause the spring sit a bit different- resulting in the spring trying to arc...meaning the bumpstops will no longer align. This mod is not absolutely necessary with smaller lift heights, and mainly helps suspension geometry on taller lifts.
Read Humbolt's write up: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/outboarding-rear-shocks-upper-spring-bucket-relocation-929056/
Also see this thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/rear-spring-relocator-kit-856163/

Transfer case bracket- Anyone that knows transfer case brackets know that Novak ($150) is in the top of the game. There are others out there like the one from Advance Adapters or Skyjacker that are cheaper alternatives, but just doesn't work like the Novak. The stock shift lever can often be used when a TT is install in conjunction with a MML & BL, since these keep the drivetrain and accessory angles as close to stock as possible.

Skids

Kilby- I really haven't seen many people run this skid, but looks to be well made. Skid is made from 3/16" bare steel (you will need to paint or powdercoat it). Skid can be done without a body lift. Incorporates Rubicon locker pump mount. Clearance gains?
Weight- 38lbs
Price- $340

AEV- I haven't seen one complaint with this skid. Skid is made from 1/4'' gusseted steel and 2.75" more clearance is possible with this skid, but where the tcase sits it has less clearance. Uses a super low-profile tranny mount. Skid comes with flat bolts that cannot hang up on rocks and comes powdercoated. Skid can be done without a body lift, but 42RLE auto owners might need to 'modify' the firewall/trans tunnel. Incorporates Rubicon locker pump mount.
Weight- ?
Price- $529

Rokmen- Beautiful skid, best tig welding I've seen for mass production Skid is made from 1/4" laser cut bare steel (you paint it) that is CNC formed. Gains of 2.25" will be seen. Uses stock tranny mount. Body lift is suggested. I have seen the back of this skid bend from mild wheeling, but this skid provides one of the best all around deals.
Weight-?
Price- $344. +$20 for Rubicon locker pump mount.

Clayton- This skid uses the 2 piece design. I haven't seen many people use this skid. It might have something to do with it only advertising .5" gain for 97-02 and 1" gain for 03-06 Wranglers. Uses 3/16" steel for the cradle and 1/4" for the skid plate. Comes with a finish, but not specific. Works with their long arm set up if you ever decide to go that route.

Price- $475
Weight- ?

Skyjacker- Zinc coated skid made from 3/16" steel with gusseted corners. Comes with shifter bracket. Gain in clearance is not specified. Only made for 97-02 Wranglers. Body lift required
Price- $410 (Quadratec)
Weight-?

Teraflex- Up to 2 3/8" gain. Made from 3/16" steel. Body lift recommended for Rubicon. Comes with finish, but not specific. Comes with a 5/8" MML.
Price- $450 + Rubicon compressor mount for Rubicons
Weight- 79 lbs

Under Cover Fabworks- Made for 97-06 Wranglers, the skid is fabricated from 3/16" thick carbon steel plate (with optional upgrade to 1/4" plate). The parts were designed in 3D CAD software and laser cut then bent on a CNC press brake. The UCF Transfer Case Skid Plate is reinforced in the middle of the skid from one side to the other with a stiffening channel/transmission mount. The front and rear edges are ramped to increase strength and aid in sliding over obstacles. Clearance gains of about 2" over the factory skid plate will be seen. The total height of this skid is about 2". Skid comes bare and does not include hardware.
Price- $169 for 3/16 and $229 for 1/4"
Weight- 60lbs (Im guessing for the 1/4")
New:
Under Cover Fabworks has released a skid that has the exact characteristics of the steel skids they produce, except they will be offered in 304 Stainless and 6061-T6 Aluminum.
Price- $329: 1/4" Aluminum
Weight-26 lbs

33 Engineering- As far as I know they are out of business, if you can still find one it is the 1 of only skid made that can be dropped without supporting the tranny. It uses a crossmember and a skid that is bolted to it. 2.75" of added clearance are said to be gained from the skid. that was ordered bare or powdered. 1" body lift required.

Never buy anything directly from these guys or anything that will be drop shipped from them. Buy from people that have the skid in stock or do not buy at all.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f176/offroadtoystore-33-engineering-kaput-so-my-dough-811839/
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f176/dont-buy-anything-offroadtoystore-com-809307/index2.html
Offroad Toy Store Reviews

Price-?
Weight-?

Jeepmedic-. Although no longer in business, you may be able to find one used. Skid is made from 1/4" gusseted steel with quality powdercoating. Gains of 2.25" will be seen from this beefy skid. Reuses stock trans mount and includes Rubicon locker pump mount. This was regarded as the best skid on the market at the time JeepMedic closed.

Price - ~$200-400 used in good condition
Weight-?

Goferit- Im not sure if these guys are still around. There isn't much info about these skids and not many people run them. Steel thickness? Clearance?
Price?
Weight?

Savvy Offroad- Everyone is talking about this skid. Will be made from aluminum and there has been word that it will be a completely flat skid. This not only will have the highest clearance, it will have a chance (with the UCF skid) to be the lightest of any skid listed. Savvy has some competitive pricing so I like most people I can wait to see this thing. You will most defiantly have to run a body lift if this skid is flat or do some serious modding to the tub.
Clearance gain-?
Price-?
Weight-?

*Exhaust mod- For every skid listed you will likely have to mod your exhaust so it will not contact the skid and or the lower control arm. Some people can get this done by themselves while others need to go to an exhaust shop. Going to an exhaust shop usually isn't too expensive for this fairly simple mod.

*BL or No-Some skids say body lift required or recommended, but can be done with out with enough hammering on the tranny tunnel as stated in the beginning. While most skids can be done without a body lift, you are tucking the transfer case closer to the body. There will be more noise as well as more heat coming from the exhaust as well as the tcase transferred to the floor board. Keep in mind - with a tummy tuck you are lifting the entire drivetrain up 2" or more - meaning you're changing the output shaft angle and you need to make room for the relocated components. The easiest way to do this is a 1" MML + BL.

*Prices are from the manufacturer unless stated otherwise

Do the math on the products you need for your specific Jeep, can you afford a Tummy Tuck?? Do you play in the rocks enough to justify one? If there are any errors or anything that needs to be added, let me know. Thanks. Thank you Unlimited04 for your help.
 
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#828 ·
Quick question...

If I go with an SS SYE now and end up doing a D44 or an 8.8 axle upgrade later, will the new driveshaft be good with the replacement axle, or should I think about doing the whole works at once?
 
#830 ·
Hey, guys.

I've been saving up for my own LJ tummy tuck and mods (as is obvious from my earlier posts).. and came across this contest to win gear: https://www.facebook.com/poisonspyder. This may seem spammy or goofy to you, but if any of you have already "Liked" Poison Spyder Customs on Facebook and would be willing to vote for me tonight or tomorrow morning, I would be grateful. I was hoping to get in the top-10 and nab a diff cover (I'm #11): Gioia Mia (Medic Barbi). I'm trying to outfit my 4-banger into a wilderness medic jeep. :)
 

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#831 ·
test fit my ultra high clearance skid today and even with a 1" lift and 1.25" BL a sye is still needed. Driveshaft angle was pretty mean, the protective boot even pulled off its mount. My TC would not go into 4 low as well. Needless to say the old skid went back on.
I have everything ready to go just need to order a DS to do it right. I did discover a transmission output seal leak though, so I get to fix that as well when TC comes out.

Just figured these notes may help someone with similar set up wondering obstacle. I must admit it did look good under there.
 
#832 ·
test fit my ultra high clearance skid today and even with a 1" lift and 1.25" BL a sye is still needed. Driveshaft angle was pretty mean, the protective boot even pulled off its mount. My TC would not go into 4 low as well. Needless to say the old skid went back on.
I have everything ready to go just need to order a DS to do it right. I did discover a transmission output seal leak though, so I get to fix that as well when TC comes out.

Just figured these notes may help someone with similar set up wondering obstacle. I must admit it did look good under there.
Those of us say things like "regardless of coil height, a SYE needs to be on the list" and "the stock linkage will be half-*** at best" aren't just pulling that stuff out of thin air......;)

Minimizing the drive shaft angle is always ideal. Look into adding the LoPro mount.
 
#835 ·
Imped said:
Those of us say things like "regardless of coil height, a SYE needs to be on the list" and "the stock linkage will be half-*** at best" aren't just pulling that stuff out of thin air......;)

Minimizing the drive shaft angle is always ideal. Look into adding the LoPro mount.
Had driveshaft planned as soon as jeep was bought. Lifted or not i hate the stock shaft set up. I knew already the shaft would be an issue but buddy wanted to try it while my Jeep was in his shop. Hell rack and tools where there so i was not going to say no. It only took around 15 minutes.
 
#836 ·
MisfitSeven said:
Let the record show that I ran a Tcase drop between the frame and TT skid temporarily until I could do it right. I just wanted a flat surface under there instead of the shovel. something to think about.
I thought about it too, but i have everything already, just did not have it at the shop at the moment. Next day off we will getr done.
 
#838 ·
Here is my Lo Pro Mount and UCF Skid for my 03, manual. UCF makes some real nice stuff. I did not have to do any tub clearancing. I added a 1" MML and 1" BL prior. The only thing I had to change after was the 4WD linkage was biding. So I upgraded to the Novak Cable Shifter and couldn't be happier. The skid is UnderCover Fabworks Extra-Clearance Carbon Steel 3/16" Skid Plate.
 

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#842 ·
2000X-
Those are great pictures of that skid. Thanks for posting them. What is that "spacer" between your skid and the frame?

All-
Does anyone have a picture of UCF's "No Body Lift" skid installed?
 
#845 ·
2000X-
Those are great pictures of that skid. Thanks for posting them. What is that "spacer" between your skid and the frame?

All-
Does anyone have a picture of UCF's "No Body Lift" skid installed?
That spacer is part of the Rough Country long arm setup he has. It connects the LCA mounts together.

How much clearance was gained at the skid from stock with that setup?
Thank you -
The skid plate is the Original Extra-Clearance Carbon Steel 3/16" Skid Plate. The spacer is part of my long arm set up. It is only 1/2" thick. I probably gained about 3" over stock.
 
#844 ·
Looks like he has UCF's "original" clearance skid.......plus the spacer.......he probably gained 2" clearance over the stock shovel skid.

I have the UCF "Ultra clearance skid" and no spacer.....so I have about 3.5-4" gain in clearance over stock skid.
 
#847 ·
Here's a 1/4" (stock shovel is 1/8") ultra high clearance ucf and some comparison pics. Matt's oil pan skid is hanging on the wall waiting to be installed. Has 2 mounting points to take advantage of a mml for 1" additional skid clearance. Plan on picking up his 1" raised gas tank skid for a nice set with more clearance than the next guy :). Did a rough country bl, jks mml, novak cable shifter, and all the works from currie and Adams driveshafts for a sye which was NEEDED for just the skid on stock springs, no spacers. Learned the hard way, spend the extra 40$ to get a jb conversions sye. They have the shortest yoke of all sye's with a double sprung seal that won't leak like the joke of a sye rugged ridge sells. The output seal has soaked my skid in tranny fluid. Lube for sliding over rocks? Haha
 

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#849 ·
2003X, looks good, I had almost the same setup as you, but I sat on my tummy tuck skids for months until I could get around to welding on the control arm brackets and getting rid of the stupid bolt on Rough Country bracket.

I would have not taken the corner out of the skid to fit around the bracket, but that's just me. There are many things inherently wrong with that bracket like it acting as a TCase drop, and only securing the skid with 4 of the 6 intended bolts. Even worse, is now the rear section of that skid is compromise strength wise. There is a reason the skids are corner boxed like they are, it is what enabled them to take hits without deforming. I guarantee if you hit the back end of the skid on something its going to bend upwards, ask me how I know. :(

Anyways, here is a side picture of the one I just finished. I definitely have room for a higher clearance skid, but I wasn't going to argue with a gently used Jeep Medic skid for 1/4 of the price they are new.

 
#854 ·
A bit higher and a lot stronger.
And something you didn't mention. SMOOTH! The factory transfer case skid (on my manual transmission anyway) is horrible at grabbing on to rocks and things and holding on tight. With those ribs that are bent into it, it's not a slider at all, it's just protection, that's it. Even if it's no higher up than stock, smoother is better :cheers2:
 
#855 ·
So I installed the UFC UHC skid on my '01. Even with a 1.25" BL and 1" MM lift and stock MM's the fan still hit the lower half of the shroud. I changed out the mounts and installed Brown Dog Mounts and the fan now clears by about 1/4". Any one else run into this issue? I am worried about when the drive train flexes it may hit.
My options I see so far would be to lower the shroud, trim the shroud or place a small spacer under the 1" MM lift to gain me another 1/4" or so.
It seems that on the '01 with the stock transmission mount and UHC skid the transmission may now be higher than the engine.
 
#857 ·
Xjman1 said:
So I installed the UFC UHC skid on my '01. Even with a 1.25" BL and 1" MM lift and stock MM's the fan still hit the lower half of the shroud. I changed out the mounts and installed Brown Dog Mounts and the fan now clears by about 1/4". Any one else run into this issue? I am worried about when the drive train flexes it may hit.
My options I see so far would be to lower the shroud, trim the shroud or place a small spacer under the 1" MM lift to gain me another 1/4" or so.
It seems that on the '01 with the stock transmission mount and UHC skid the transmission may now be higher than the engine.
You are way over thinking this. Just slot the holes on the shroud and lower it slightly. Fifteen minutes and all good.
 
#858 ·
I can not help it, i am very analytical by nature. I do not want a band aid fix so want to ensure drive train is aligned properly. The way it sits not leads me to believe the drive train tilts forward.
Just wonder if anyone else has had this issue and forewarn those about to travel this path.
 
#859 ·
Angled forward or backward 1/4" is a difference that makes no difference. Slotting the holes and lowering the shroud is a way better option than some of the things you are talking about (e.g. spacer under the MML). It is not a bandaid in the slightest. If it means anything to you, slotting the holes was the advice given me by mrblaine in getting my Savvy Under Armor, MML and BL setup. I don't believe Blaine ever does things half assed or the wrong way.
 
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