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So you want a Tummy Tuck...

391K views 1K replies 219 participants last post by  SouthernGypsy 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
So you want a Tummy Tuck

I am aware there is a thread out there similar to this in the fact that it list some of the facts about several skids on the market, but this one is complete and it just for setting up a tummy tuck. This thread will be devoted to the TJ, as this is the TJ Technical Forum and that is what most have on here. LJ's are a bit different when it comes to driveshaft requirements, but most principles still apply.

Everyone thinks they need a tummy tuck these days. They are very useful off road and even make a TJ look better because you are no longer seeing the ugly shovel. A tummy tuck takes more than just several hundred bucks to buy one, there are other things that have to be dealt with. Most decide they don't need one when they figure out how much it will cost. The stock skid not the stoutest, but will hold up to mild wheeling, and comes in at 41.5 lbs.

Depending on the Jeep you have and which route you intend on going you might need one or more of these for your tummy tuck:

1" Body Lift- All depends on how much hammering (or 'modification') you want to do on the transmission tunnel. There are various routes to go with body lifts which include JKS ($135), Daystar, Performance Accessories, Currie, etc. It seems like everyone is scared to do one of these[, whether it be due to looks or difficulty of installation.] I have seen at least 30 posts asking if they can get away with doing such and such skid without one. A lot of people that are concerned with performance think that every Jeep should have came with one from the factory. The 1" body lift is hardly noticeable and will allow other mods like a high clearance gas tank skid. They also help lift the body without changing the COG very much, reducing the amount of bumpstop you need to clear a given tire size.

Motor Mount Lift (MML)- Is needed when doing any high clearance t-case skid on a Jeep that has a suspension lift of 2" or more. Stockers can usually get away with out it, but if you are doing a tummy tuck chances are you aren't keeping the stock suspension height. The reason this needs to be done is when you are stuffing your tranny and tcase farther up you want to tilt the output shaft of the tcase down to help with the geometry you are messing with. By bringing the front of the engine up, you will be able to tilt the output shaft of the tcase down. There are various ways to lift your motor which include JKS(spacers-$60), Brown Dog(full replacement-$84), and M.O.R.E(full replacement-$139). If you choose new motor mounts instead of the spacers, get the rubber bushing versions to reduce engine vibrations. Poly bushings **can** transmit more engine vibrations, but they greatly reduce engine movement and will not degrade as fast as rubber. Rubber's lifespan is usually a few decades...so its your choice.

Double Cardan Driveshaft- Is needed when doing any skid on a Jeep that has been lifted 1.5- 2" or more via its suspension. Stockers can usually get away without it, but if you are doing a tummy tuck chances are you aren't keeping the stock suspension height. Will be needed, Rubicon or not. There are a few out there (Currie, Teraflex, ect, but only one that I would go with- Tom Woods which run around $315 (Quadratec).

Slip Yoke Eliminator (SYE)- Is needed when doing any skid on a Jeep that has been lifted 1.5-2" or more via its suspension. Stockers can usually get away without it, but if you are doing a tummy tuck chances are you aren't keeping the stock suspension height. If you have a Rubicon, you will not need one of these. Many people say that the Rubicon already has an SYE, but that is incorrect. It would have to have a slip yoke in the first place to elimininate it - Rubicons have fixed flange rear outputs. There are several good kits on the market such as Advance Adapters ($270 Quadratec), JB Conversions($300-$400), Rubicon Express ($330)

Rear upper adjustable control arms- Will be needed to rotate your pinion upward. There will be some fine tuning to eliminate driveshaft vibrations. Rokmen and Currie are the only ones I would consider when dropping money on them as of right now. Rokmen-$249. Currie- ($229)

More info on SYE/CV shafts & pinion angle: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/what-cv-shaft-why-do-i-want-one-854790/

CV trackbar bracket-This angled bracket will be needed for your trackbar when rotating the pinion. With out this bracket your stock or adjustable trackbar will bind. Rubicon Express-$70

Rear lower shock mount extenders- When rotating your pinion up, you will find that the can of your shock (if you have piston down, you may not have this problem) will rub the axle. Some extensions like those from Currie-$30 will get the job done. If you're looking for maximum flex, this is a good time to consider shock mount relocation to use long travel shocks - read here: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/low-lift-long-shocks-diy-shock-shifters-whats-advantage-852221/

Spring perch modications- Will sometimes have to be done, but I personally have not seen a Jeep that has absolutely needed it. Rotating the pinion will cause the spring sit a bit different- resulting in the spring trying to arc...meaning the bumpstops will no longer align. This mod is not absolutely necessary with smaller lift heights, and mainly helps suspension geometry on taller lifts.
Read Humbolt's write up: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/outboarding-rear-shocks-upper-spring-bucket-relocation-929056/
Also see this thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/rear-spring-relocator-kit-856163/

Transfer case bracket- Anyone that knows transfer case brackets know that Novak ($150) is in the top of the game. There are others out there like the one from Advance Adapters or Skyjacker that are cheaper alternatives, but just doesn't work like the Novak. The stock shift lever can often be used when a TT is install in conjunction with a MML & BL, since these keep the drivetrain and accessory angles as close to stock as possible.

Skids

Kilby- I really haven't seen many people run this skid, but looks to be well made. Skid is made from 3/16" bare steel (you will need to paint or powdercoat it). Skid can be done without a body lift. Incorporates Rubicon locker pump mount. Clearance gains?
Weight- 38lbs
Price- $340

AEV- I haven't seen one complaint with this skid. Skid is made from 1/4'' gusseted steel and 2.75" more clearance is possible with this skid, but where the tcase sits it has less clearance. Uses a super low-profile tranny mount. Skid comes with flat bolts that cannot hang up on rocks and comes powdercoated. Skid can be done without a body lift, but 42RLE auto owners might need to 'modify' the firewall/trans tunnel. Incorporates Rubicon locker pump mount.
Weight- ?
Price- $529

Rokmen- Beautiful skid, best tig welding I've seen for mass production Skid is made from 1/4" laser cut bare steel (you paint it) that is CNC formed. Gains of 2.25" will be seen. Uses stock tranny mount. Body lift is suggested. I have seen the back of this skid bend from mild wheeling, but this skid provides one of the best all around deals.
Weight-?
Price- $344. +$20 for Rubicon locker pump mount.

Clayton- This skid uses the 2 piece design. I haven't seen many people use this skid. It might have something to do with it only advertising .5" gain for 97-02 and 1" gain for 03-06 Wranglers. Uses 3/16" steel for the cradle and 1/4" for the skid plate. Comes with a finish, but not specific. Works with their long arm set up if you ever decide to go that route.

Price- $475
Weight- ?

Skyjacker- Zinc coated skid made from 3/16" steel with gusseted corners. Comes with shifter bracket. Gain in clearance is not specified. Only made for 97-02 Wranglers. Body lift required
Price- $410 (Quadratec)
Weight-?

Teraflex- Up to 2 3/8" gain. Made from 3/16" steel. Body lift recommended for Rubicon. Comes with finish, but not specific. Comes with a 5/8" MML.
Price- $450 + Rubicon compressor mount for Rubicons
Weight- 79 lbs

Under Cover Fabworks- Made for 97-06 Wranglers, the skid is fabricated from 3/16" thick carbon steel plate (with optional upgrade to 1/4" plate). The parts were designed in 3D CAD software and laser cut then bent on a CNC press brake. The UCF Transfer Case Skid Plate is reinforced in the middle of the skid from one side to the other with a stiffening channel/transmission mount. The front and rear edges are ramped to increase strength and aid in sliding over obstacles. Clearance gains of about 2" over the factory skid plate will be seen. The total height of this skid is about 2". Skid comes bare and does not include hardware.
Price- $169 for 3/16 and $229 for 1/4"
Weight- 60lbs (Im guessing for the 1/4")
New:
Under Cover Fabworks has released a skid that has the exact characteristics of the steel skids they produce, except they will be offered in 304 Stainless and 6061-T6 Aluminum.
Price- $329: 1/4" Aluminum
Weight-26 lbs

33 Engineering- As far as I know they are out of business, if you can still find one it is the 1 of only skid made that can be dropped without supporting the tranny. It uses a crossmember and a skid that is bolted to it. 2.75" of added clearance are said to be gained from the skid. that was ordered bare or powdered. 1" body lift required.

Never buy anything directly from these guys or anything that will be drop shipped from them. Buy from people that have the skid in stock or do not buy at all.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f176/offroadtoystore-33-engineering-kaput-so-my-dough-811839/
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f176/dont-buy-anything-offroadtoystore-com-809307/index2.html
Offroad Toy Store Reviews

Price-?
Weight-?

Jeepmedic-. Although no longer in business, you may be able to find one used. Skid is made from 1/4" gusseted steel with quality powdercoating. Gains of 2.25" will be seen from this beefy skid. Reuses stock trans mount and includes Rubicon locker pump mount. This was regarded as the best skid on the market at the time JeepMedic closed.

Price - ~$200-400 used in good condition
Weight-?

Goferit- Im not sure if these guys are still around. There isn't much info about these skids and not many people run them. Steel thickness? Clearance?
Price?
Weight?

Savvy Offroad- Everyone is talking about this skid. Will be made from aluminum and there has been word that it will be a completely flat skid. This not only will have the highest clearance, it will have a chance (with the UCF skid) to be the lightest of any skid listed. Savvy has some competitive pricing so I like most people I can wait to see this thing. You will most defiantly have to run a body lift if this skid is flat or do some serious modding to the tub.
Clearance gain-?
Price-?
Weight-?

*Exhaust mod- For every skid listed you will likely have to mod your exhaust so it will not contact the skid and or the lower control arm. Some people can get this done by themselves while others need to go to an exhaust shop. Going to an exhaust shop usually isn't too expensive for this fairly simple mod.

*BL or No-Some skids say body lift required or recommended, but can be done with out with enough hammering on the tranny tunnel as stated in the beginning. While most skids can be done without a body lift, you are tucking the transfer case closer to the body. There will be more noise as well as more heat coming from the exhaust as well as the tcase transferred to the floor board. Keep in mind - with a tummy tuck you are lifting the entire drivetrain up 2" or more - meaning you're changing the output shaft angle and you need to make room for the relocated components. The easiest way to do this is a 1" MML + BL.

*Prices are from the manufacturer unless stated otherwise

Do the math on the products you need for your specific Jeep, can you afford a Tummy Tuck?? Do you play in the rocks enough to justify one? If there are any errors or anything that needs to be added, let me know. Thanks. Thank you Unlimited04 for your help.
 
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#739 ·
You want the pinion inline with the drive shaft, such that the u joint is seeing no angle. The -2 degrees statement is accounting for axle wrap when on the gas. If you've got some deflection from the bushings in your control arms, you'll have a little axle wrap. If you're running rod ends or JJ's at all ends, you'll have virtually none.

In other words, you're fine where it's at.
 
#740 ·
Is there a differance in the rear Tatton driveshaft for my Rubicon and the Tom Woods shaft besides the price. I`ve read good reviews on Tatton shafts both come with spicer 1330`s. This Belly up project is costing a bundle and I need to save anywhere I can. Thanks
 
#746 ·
The good thing about TW is that Tom stands behind his product. Unless you turn the thing into a banana on the trail, he'll figure something out to help you. Usually it's "send it back and we'll take care of it", and it is not at all uncommon for him to split the cost of repair when the situation is completely the consumers fault.

I have never dealt with Tatton, however I would venture a guess there is a very strong difference in customer service. There are only a handful of companies out there that have seen the success that TW has and to this day the owner himself still answers the phone. Give them a call any given day of the week M-F and you're likely to have Tom answer and phone. What you'll find during your conversation with him is a person who actually cares about each and every customer he has. People are beating down that mans door for driveshafts and he has plenty of business, yet he'll spend twenty minutes on the phone with you answering all your questions, and even just having general conversation.

Not because he wants your money or wants to make a sale, but because he cares about you, and he doesn't even know you.
 
#747 ·
Just my opinion on Tatton's!
I have ordered from them twice now. When I call, I get Curtis himself on the phone, and so I beleve their customer service is the same as TW. Shipping is fast, and like you said, the products appear the same. Warranty appears the same. I have never heard bad from either place, so why not save some money where possible.
 
#750 ·
Thanks for the replies on Tatton and Tom Woods. Its nice to here good things about companys standing behind their products. I dont mind spending the cash as much when I want to give someone my buisness.

So I also want to purchase the Novak shifter cable and install it and the driveshaft before I purchase the Transfer case skid to cut down on the install time. Is this a bad idea? Its my daily driver and dont want to tie it up more than a day.
 
#752 ·
On my local forum a few months back a member was asking about buy an aluminum skid and everyone said stay away from it. They said an aluminum skid is like Velcro on rocks and it won’t slide it will hang you up. Is there that big a different between aluminum and steel for a skid plate?
 
#753 ·
On my local forum a few months back a member was asking about buy an aluminum skid and everyone said stay away from it. They said an aluminum skid is like Velcro on rocks and it won't slide it will hang you up. Is there that big a different between aluminum and steel for a skid plate?
Look around here a bit and you'll see that isn't the case. I was on my aluminum belly skid a good bit this weekend, and I was able to slide off of it each time with a little work instead of just being high centered. If I had been on my not-flat stock steel skid, I would have been stuck.

I've yet to be in a situation where I couldn't slide across my aluminum skids. And considering that the guys who pretty much started the aluminum fad do nothing but play in the rocks, I'd say it works just fine when the proper type is used.
 
#756 ·
Put the MTRs on, mysterious coincidental DW is gone. I have something smacking the tunnel when i accelerate. Pretty sure its my.cobbled up transfer case linkage. Just ordered cable shifter from Gerald. Hope it gets here quick wanna get it together on monday. I also need to check the transmission vent tube. Think i might of pinched that, dont know what it is but something else is rattling under there near the transmission Having exhaust tweaked on tuesday.
 
#759 ·
Continuing saga of novice tummy tuck install:
I put a Novak on yesterdY and took transmount off the cut an inch out of cat support, dropping it away from the body. Still have that metal to metal scratching when i hit a bump. Tracked it down to the top of the trans where it exits the tunnel to engine compartment. Looking at getting lopro mount or taking 1/4 inch spacers out from under mml. I dont know if i need the spacers but they came with mml so i stuck them on there. Tried to call UCF this am and got voicemail again.
 
#760 ·
Just as i suspected the transmission has a reinforcing ridge that runs along the top and parallel to the trans. This Area was barely contacting the tub. If u look down the back of the motor it will be just to the passenger side of center. Its hard to see but its there. I took the 1/4 inch spacers out of my mml and lowered the engine. I then had to do some cutting on the bottom of the fan shroud. It all works fine now.
 
#761 ·
After searching through about 15 random pages here i am at a loss in finding the the results to my question, apologies if im beating a dead horse. Kindly redirect me to a previously written solution if so.

I am currently wheeling on stock suspension right now and will not be doing a lift for at least another year. My question is what would be the neccesities to accomplish a TT while knowing a 3-4" lift is in store in the future? From what i've read a MML, SYE, nor CV shaft is needed at stock hieght. Would the BL and Skid plate be all i need at the moment and then once the lift comes accompanied by a CV and SYE should i go for the MML? Am i missing anything else?
Is it possible? Or should i just wait untill i lift to do a TT?

Sincerely, Clueless in Afghanistan
 
#766 ·
SandKing said:
After searching through about 15 random pages here i am at a loss in finding the the results to my question, apologies if im beating a dead horse. Kindly redirect me to a previously written solution if so.

I am currently wheeling on stock suspension right now and will not be doing a lift for at least another year. My question is what would be the neccesities to accomplish a TT while knowing a 3-4" lift is in store in the future? From what i've read a MML, SYE, nor CV shaft is needed at stock hieght. Would the BL and Skid plate be all i need at the moment and then once the lift comes accompanied by a CV and SYE should i go for the MML? Am i missing anything else?
Is it possible? Or should i just wait untill i lift to do a TT?

Sincerely, Clueless in Afghanistan
Depends on the skid plate. I run an nth degree tummy tuck on a stock jeep. No adjustable arms, no slip yoke eliminator, no body lift needed. No cutting or welding or tub modifications. It's bolt on and go if your stock. Best mod you could ever do for a stock rig imo
 
#770 ·
Ef4life said:
Depends on the skid plate. I run an nth degree tummy tuck on a stock jeep. No adjustable arms, no slip yoke eliminator, no body lift needed. No cutting or welding or tub modifications. It's bolt on and go if your stock. Best mod you could ever do for a stock rig imo
Im kinda new to these as well. How are you able to run like that with no vibes? I have been lookn into different tt and am curious on this.
 
#771 ·
pmcjeep said:
Im kinda new to these as well. How are you able to run like that with no vibes? I have been lookn into different tt and am curious on this.
If you have no lift, pushing up the trans and tcase 2-3" with a tummy tuck is not nessesarily going to give you vibrations, since most tj guys are running 4" lift with a tcase drop of 1" you moved the output up 3" it's about the same.. Now I'm running a 4 cylinder so you guys with a 4.0 might be a little different. But getting a set of either upper or lower adjustable arms could cure some vibrations if you have any.
 
#777 ·
With the "Ultra High" skid I think you'll get vibes. I had the "Extra Clearance" and I was at (for me over) the limit with what I could get away with. See how your four banger handles it (might be better). If it's close you might just get away with some adjustable rear upper control arms and be able to adjust your pinion angle. If not, you'll need the arms anyway for a CV shaft.
 
#779 ·
I've got the lowest profile UCF aluminum skid on mine now, I'm so happy to get that low hanging factory skid out from under there, and also to get a skid for the engine oil pan! (only the transfer case skid is on in this photo).

Hangs down about 1 inch or so from the frame. Would be nice if it were completely flat, but I don't think that 241 tcase is going up much higher without some custom work, it's stuffed up in there pretty good, haha! I'm quite happy with it though :) Had it out on the rocks twice now, the extra 4" or so of clearance is quite noticable! And when it does hit, it slides quite easy. :)

Now time to do something with those body mounts.... the middle ones in particular are starting to fold over, haha

 
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