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2005-06 Jeep OPDA_CPS_Distributor Failure

972K views 6K replies 527 participants last post by  ha1o2surfer 
#1 ·
This post is meant to consolidate the information originally found in these threads.

MAJOR UPDATE: 4/17/12: Video of porous upper bushing in Differences Section.
UPDATE: 4/13/12: Included brief explanation video of one of the alternate designs. It's added in the Alternate Designs section under the Oil Bath.
UPDATE: 4/11/12: Included Clocking video that shows how to align the OPDA for TDC removal in the Removal Section. Big thanks to Bigbob!

UPDATE: 4/5/12: Added link to 2002 Jeep OPDA with abnormal wear. The link is in this intro post below.
UPDATE: 2/25/12: Included Oil Flow Through Design in Alternate Designs Section.
UPDATE 2/21/12: Included OPDA replacement in Q&A Section.
UPDATE 12/22/11: Included links to Shell Rotella Oil to the Oils and Grease Section.
UPDATE 12/14/11: Included new Laughing Monkey video to the Problems Section. Video provided by DME.
UPDATE 12/10/11: Included additional link to Oil Cup Alternate in the Alternate Designed section below. I recommend this over the grease fitting.
Update 9/16/11: Cleaned up the links below. Added link to newest Poll.
Update 7/12/11: Cleaned up the Q&A section and added links to help navigate the 100+ page thread.
Update 4/27/11: Included additional section. Section 11: Alternate Designs. See below for more info.
Update 2/21/11: Included link to Crown correspondence for a replacement aftermarket OPDA.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/new-opda-design-05-06-tjs-crown-1171313/#post11017999

Update 1/30/11: The sections below will be updated as we find more details and facts. At the top of each section I will include a BOLD Update notifier and a brief description. If you have a question regarding an update please let me know. I'm trying to make the first page easy to navigate. Also be aware that the Q&A section near the bottom will be updated with questions as I receive them. I may make small edits to conserve space, but I will like the original post in the Q&A for further review.

Section 1: What Is It?
Section 2: Problems
(Laughing Monkey Video)
Section 3: Differences
Section 4: Dissection
Section 5: Acquisition
Section 6: Removal
(Removal Video)
Section 7: Modification
Section 8: Oils and Grease
Section 9: Questions and Answers
Section 10: Results

Section 11: Alternate Designs

For those of you new to this problem, please understand that while the 2005-06 OPDA is flawed, the cam and lifter issues are wide spread over other model years. This is covered with the ZDDP and engine oil changes over the years.

First Discussion Thread!

First Discussion Thread Spreadsheet (Thanks RubiOR)

Laughing Monkey!

Registry!

Poll Thread!

Catastrophic Failure!

And for those of you who think you're not affected, below is a link to a 1999 distributor with the laughing monkey. (though as you'll read the 2005-06 is more susceptible due to the upper bushing problem)

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/name-noise-video-971819/

Here is a link to a 2002 with the same unusual wear of the 2005-06!
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/opda-failure-2002-a-1350053/

I will split the information up in sections.

Full Disclosure
The fixes and modifications on this subject were a group effort from members of this forum and supporting contacts. There is only a small amount of information regarding the results of these changes. I'll update as more information is provided.
Also, I'm not a tech guy so if there are some details that are omitted please let me know. The hope is to limit this thread to only a few pages of actual information regarding how to handle this problem.


 
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#3,079 ·
Another angle for the OPDA problem

I have a 06 LJ with 21K miles. My OPDA gear is moderately worn. I removed the gear and noticed some discoloration on the gear where it contacts the thrust washer. Half of the top gear surface is bright and the other half is dull. I also noted that the gear's teeth wear marks are different on one side than the other. It seems the lower edge of the gear wear moves closer to the roll pin for one quadrant of the gear.

I looks like the gear is moving in an out as it is driven by the cam gear which explains the wear patterns.

I recall a Jeep Chief Engineer from a forum thread suggesting that there could be a tolerance problem with the OPDA. Could it be an alignment issue and a soft bushing causing the problem?

Does anyone else see these wear problems?
 
#3,080 ·
I have a 06 LJ with 21K miles. My OPDA gear is moderately worn. I removed the gear and noticed some discoloration on the gear where it contacts the thrust washer. Half of the top gear surface is bright and the other half is dull. I also noted that the gear's teeth wear marks are different on one side than the other. It seems the lower edge of the gear wear moves closer to the roll pin for one quadrant of the gear.

I looks like the gear is moving in an out as it is driven by the cam gear which explains the wear patterns.

I recall a Jeep Chief Engineer from a forum thread suggesting that there could be a tolerance problem with the OPDA. Could it be an alignment issue and a soft bushing causing the problem?

Does anyone else see these wear problems?
I just happen to have my old gear sitting here at my computer that I ruined when re-installing. It has the same wear on top where it contacts the thrust washer as you mention yours has (noticeably more wear on one side than the other), so I would say that's normal as this gear I mentioned was fine (before I messed it up anyway) and shouldn't be an issue.

As far as the other things you mention about tolerance and alignment, that's kinda' the million dollar question. Some of the gears just wear down quickly and/or unevenly while others don't and we're not sure why. Basically we've tried to address the lack of lube to the upper bushing and have tried higher zinc oils for the gear wear issue and it seems to be an improvement.
 
#3,081 ·
Thanks for the reply. Ok, the previous design (pre 2005) had more lubrication. Perhaps keeping the bushing well lubed is a long term cure for this design. A tolerance problem would explain why some people have problems and some don't. The wear pattern that I'm talking about suggests that the OPDA gear is moving in and out relative to the cam gear, like for instance if the shaft was a little bent. I want to see if the gear wear is common suggesting a root problem. Zinc oil won't help the top bushing unless you oil it. One more thing about the ZDDP is that is may be hazardous to your Catalytic converter.
 
#3,082 ·
...Zinc oil won't help the top bushing unless you oil it. One more think about the ZDDP is that is may be hazardous to your Catalytic converter.
Oiling the top bushing was the origin of the FogMod and subsequent oil cup/bath modifications since. If you haven't already reviewed the first page take a minute (maybe longer :D) to have a look. There are a lot of clever ideas and a ton of info.

The debate of ZDDP and the catalytic converter has been discussed several times. IMO a non-issue unless your burning oil and even then a cat is a relatively easier fix than tearing down an engine. I get a lot of satisfaction knowing I'm using a higher ZDDP oil.

I'm not so much worried about the wear. Wear will happen. I am more worried about the binding and potential for a more serious and abrupt engine problem.
 
#3,083 ·
I have an 05 tj with 130000 miles. Do you think I have this problem?
 
#3,086 ·
We haven't developed enough evidence to confirm anything. There have been a couple vendors (no free publicity! :club:) who have said they are doing something, but have yet to do anything. Maybe because we don't know the true cause of wear.

We do know that upper bushing/shaft will gall, and bind, and laugh, and fail. So for the time being we can address that. Maybe, this will solve/minimize the high wear issue too. Wishful thinking at this point.

There have been some reports with relatively low mileage that show smaller wear patterns (including mine) but at this point I put zero faith in it. If you plan to do the FogMod to fix the wear, I think at this point, that is a bad conclusion. The FogMod will help the upper bushing problem and that along with the relatively low cost of the mod is worth it for me.
 
#3,087 ·
I find that I like my Jeep better since doing the oil cup mod. Knowing that the engine may now live to 200k miles like most 4.0's is a relief. On the other hand I still don't quite fully trust the engine. I wish I had bought the 04 that I looked at!
 
#3,089 ·
MAy seem like a dumb question but I'm not sure of the answer. If an 05 or 06 engine does fail, can't you replace it with an earlier 4.0 from an 04 for example? Or is the ECU completely different?
 
#3,100 ·
ChaseB said:
Where are you guys getting the VR1? Last oil change I picked some up at O'reilly, they no longer offer it. Same situation with Autozone and Advance. Suggestions? Besides online?
None of the places I have locally carry it so I have them bring it in special for me.
 
#3,128 ·
Are you sure O'reilly can't get it for you? I just saw it in one of their stores a couple days ago. I see it online on their site. I seem to remember it being higher price in the store. Here is a link:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/VLV0/RACE1030/N0425.oap?ck=Search_N0425_-1_3067&pt=N0425&ppt=C0162
Says "currently unavailable" on their website. :mad:

Found it here! http://www.jegs.com/p/Valvoline-Racing/Valvoline-VR1-Racing-Oil/761749/10002/-1 for $5.99
 
#3,103 ·
I hope O'reilly's can still get the VR1. That's where I got mine from the last time they put it on sale. They did have to order it from the warehouse though....they only carried the 20W-50 in the store. Like another poster said, NAPA can get it as well. Worst case, Amazon carries it and offers free shipping if memory serves.
 
#3,105 ·
A quick update, gentlemen.
I have fully disassembled a donated, damaged OPDA and was I ever shocked.
The construction of that thing is some of the worst engineering I have seen my last visit to NASA Glenn.
I have arrived at a reliable, simple solution using most of the OEM components, proper materials based on tribological needs, (unlike OEM cost accounting designs), and no need for oil cups, added oil lines, or any special service. In a short time, I'll be asking for volunteers to send me their OPDA's so I can modify them, and you guys can accumulate the mileage to assess the effectiveness of my design. If all goes as I expect, I can fix ALL of the OPDA's that were poorly designed and manufactured by Chrysler.
 
#3,107 ·
stripperguy said:
A quick update, gentlemen.
I have fully disassembled a donated, damaged OPDA and was I ever shocked.
The construction of that thing is some of the worst engineering I have seen my last visit to NASA Glenn.
I have arrived at a reliable, simple solution using most of the OEM components, proper materials based on tribological needs, (unlike OEM cost accounting designs), and no need for oil cups, added oil lines, or any special service. In a short time, I'll be asking for volunteers to send me their OPDA's so I can modify them, and you guys can accumulate the mileage to assess the effectiveness of my design. If all goes as I expect, I can fix ALL of the OPDA's that were poorly designed and manufactured by Chrysler.
Pm sent. I have a OPDA with 2000 miles on it that's sitting on my shop for you.
 
#3,113 ·
I expect I can get to this in a week or two...
Just to clarify, I am not an aftermarket vendor or even a job shop. My business is vastly different. All of this is my personal time and commitment to fix a problem that plagues many of us. I only want to fix the problem, not compete with mass manufacturing or OEM's.
 
#3,116 ·
Thumbs up on this. :thumbsup:

I've had a number of ideas that I know would work, but not having the machinery to do the job has been my downfall.

Just to let you know, with a stock shaft, no oil feed spiral groove, and the seal out not much oil reaches the top bushing. I ran mine like that for a while and although little oil got up there, I bet it was sufficient to lube the bushing.
 
#3,119 ·
I'm a dummy, school me on tribological pairing.
 
#3,120 ·
:fish: :google:

wiki said:
Tribology is the science and engineering of interacting surfaces in relative motion. It includes the study and application of the principles of friction, lubrication and wear. Tribology is a branch of mechanical engineering...

The tribological interactions of a solid surface's exposed face with interfacing materials and environment may result in loss of material from the surface. The process leading to loss of material is known as "wear". Major types of wear include abrasion, friction (adhesion and cohesion), erosion, and corrosion. Wear can be minimized by modifying the surface properties of solids by one or more of "surface engineering" processes (also called surface finishing) or by use of lubricants (for frictional or adhesive wear).
Just busting yer balls, Bob.

Sounds like we have the man with the motivation AND the means to do something.

:eek:ntopic:
 
#3,121 ·
Here is a 3/4 section view of the OPDA with my intended components and modifications included. I have RFQ's for purchased parts, still need to produce detail drawings to get quotes for machined components. Short term will probably machine the 1st series of parts myself... not shown in the assembly is the thrust washer/bearing, drive gear, nor roll pin, no changes there at all.

Still need another week or two...

 
#3,122 ·
stripperguy said:
Here is a 3/4 section view of the OPDA with my intended components and modifications included. I have RFQ's for purchased parts, still need to produce detail drawings to get quotes for machined components. Short term will probably machine the 1st series of parts myself... not shown in the assembly is the thrust washer/bearing, drive gear, nor roll pin, no changes there at all.

Still need another week or two...
Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Clause!

I'm so happy I could cry...
 
#3,124 ·
Personally, I don't feel the gear wear is a result of too much friction at the upper bushing. I have pulled my OPDA with it at normal operating temp, and cold. It spins freely at both.
45K since new. I believe the wear is from the gears meshing together are not to the proper tolerances. Only other thing that would do it, would be if the metal was just too soft. Sure wish we had hardness test results. We could compare them to other cam/gear combinations.
 
#3,127 ·
There's often excessive gear wear without the monkey which is caused by binding. No binding means no monkey...
 
#3,129 ·
There's often excessive gear wear without the monkey which is caused by binding. No binding means no monkey...
I'm not saying that they all spin freely! Obviously if a shaft is in a bind, then there will be more gear wear. What i'm saying is that how do you explain the gear wear if there is no shaft binding? There are two seperate issues at stake here. Yes, one may affect the other, but it doesn't have to.
Yep, you are both right. The whole thing is a mess :mad:

I've been following this thread for a while, and I still haven't gotten up the nerve to pull mine and check it. I did buy a new unit to mod, but i'm not sure which mod to do yet, grease or oil. I want to see what this new mod looks like.
 
#3,132 ·
Yeah, i know I need to check it. I'm really worried more about putting it back in, although the recent method shown turning the crankbolt with a wrench does seem to make it easy. I'll have to look at it again and just do it.

I thought the general consensus lately was the oil cup was better than grease?
 
#3,133 ·
Oil cup is better than grease. Grease is better than factory. A porous bushing and oil are a perfect match.

Getting up the courage to do it yourself is very difficult. It is very simple. I think of it like riding a bike. Once you're up and on it, it is very simple. Pulling the OPDA is the same way. There is no trick or special training. If you can watch a video and follow directions you can pull it. :D
 
#3,135 ·
Finally getting around to putting the engine back together. Just got a case of the turbo diesel truck stuff as it was all that was in stock local. Well two cases actually since there's only 6 to a case, but that means bigger discount which was nice.

So is there an exact parts list to do the oil cup with everything needed specifically to do the mod? I have the new cam and all new parts going in along with plenty of lube from Comp and the recommended bottle of break-in additive, think I have everything else covered to finally put it together, just need to know exactly what I need to buy to mod the OPDG (new) as well as the old for a backup and what exactly to make this "oil cup".

Thanks,

Best of Luck,

Mike
 
#3,137 ·
Finally getting around to putting the engine back together. Just got a case of the turbo diesel truck stuff as it was all that was in stock local. Well two cases actually since there's only 6 to a case, but that means bigger discount which was nice.

So is there an exact parts list to do the oil cup with everything needed specifically to do the mod? I have the new cam and all new parts going in along with plenty of lube from Comp and the recommended bottle of break-in additive, think I have everything else covered to finally put it together, just need to know exactly what I need to buy to mod the OPDG (new) as well as the old for a backup and what exactly to make this "oil cup".

Thanks,

Best of Luck,

Mike
Be sure & put the assembly lube on the OPDA gear & the gear teeth on the cam as well as the lifters.

There is a parts list used by Willy for his oil cup on the 1st page. I think it is linked in the alternatives section.
 
#3,138 ·
2006 LJ, 34,084 miles. Followed this thread, thanks to everyone for all you have done! I went with the oil bath mod, on a new unit. Original unit spun free, but had the uneven wear on ODPA gear, and wear on cam gear. I disassembled old unit, shaft had weird, uneven wear at both upper and lower bushing locations. It was as if shaft or housing flex, which I believe caused uneven gear wear (or gear binding causing shaft flex?). BTW, big thanks to BigBob for his install vid, spot on. It is the Easiest way, turn crank, line up holes, pull odpa, drop in new odpa with holes lined up, start engine and drive.
 
#3,141 ·
Thanks.

What size holes did you drill down into the reservoir and how many?
 
#3,139 ·
Rubi4MyMrs said:
Be sure & put the assembly lube on the OPDA gear & the gear teeth on the cam as well as the lifters
You'll also want to assemble everything and start it ASAP afterwards so the assembly/break-in lube doesn't have a chance to drip away. Just don't assemble and wait too long before fire it up. I'm sure you know to immediately rev to 2000-2500 rpm and hold it steady for 10-15 minutes on the first start, but I'll mention it just in case. Probably not needed for me to mention, but just in case.
 
#3,142 ·
Thanks guys! I did a bit more reading and was worried on timing so I didn't assemble anything yet. Was worried about that stuff dripping off if I didn't get it wrapped up. I have a buddy who offered to help out next week so I may just take him up on it as I could possibly use a hand with the initial fire to get the gear in sync off the scanner thing in case things don't go well.

Yes, thanks for the tip on the immediate rev. Comp sent a couple packs of their "lube" stuff and said specifically to coat that gear and cam gear thoroughly and liberally so they sent extra to ensure I'd have good coverage. Glad for that.

Not sure why this one bothers me so much-maybe because this is the third time and I'm wondering if the dealer couldn't get it right, whether I trust myself or not to get it right... ha! :laugh: I may just take my buddy up on his offer to lend a hand, he may be quite helpful overseeing things if nothing else. Not a lot of room under the hood for multiple hands, but a second set of eyes is always a good thing.

I'll check that first page for parts list. That was my other fear-having to modify that and not having it done soon enough for test fire... Could do that and have it ready for my buddy to show up then have everything covered.

Thanks,

Best of Luck,

Mike
 
#3,143 ·
Ok gentlemen,

Here are the finished detailed drawings...
All that's left is to mfg the few components and buy some raw stock and a handfull of bearings... I'm away on business for the next few days, so nothing more until 5-9-12 or so...still waiting for a few quotes as well.



 
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