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need opinions on tow rig.

6K views 71 replies 11 participants last post by  tnadanzig 
#1 ·
I've been looking for a tow rig/ work / all around truck for a while. It will not be a daily driver. They are both in great shape, which would you choose and why?

The first is a 96 F250 7.3 w/191k on it for $4800. It is pretty much a top of the line truck.

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The second is a F350 7.3 dully w/117k for $6500. It is pretty much just a bottom of the line truck. Vinyl bench seat, manual Windows, locks and such.

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#43 ·
ford auto trans pre torque shift are known to be a little weak (the ones behind the 7.3) but seem to hold up ok if you don’t beat on them (I really don’t know much about the E4OD and 4R100s). The early dodge autos are crap-I can’t remember off the top of my head when dodge got it right with an auto but it was late in the game. Allison autos are strong until you turn the engine up, you can’t adjust the line/clutch pressures electronically in a Allison like the torque shift so they do great stock but not so much with much over a +100HP program in it.
Here is what you have to watch for-programing. I can take a stock 2010 truck (any brand) and flash the ECM with a stupid hot program that will add 200 HP and almost 400 ftlb to it, hook it up to a trailer and precede to run my EGTs over 2000, melt the pistons, burn the turbo turbine and burn every clutch in the transmission in about 90 seconds. People think that their little $500 programmer is the greatest thing out there, and don’t build the rest of the truck to hold the power. If you are buying a used truck and it has one on there STAY AWAY! Only way I would buy it if I knew the guy was smart and not pushing the truck.
Sooo here is IMO what you are looking at:
Don’t buy a truck that has a programmer on it unless you know the guy…….
7.3-old, underpowered compared to the new stuff, but holds up well. Auto trans might need some work if it has had a hard life
6.0-lots of issues with the HPOP and HG, the rest of the truck is strong
6.4- some early ones had issues with overheating, but IIRC ford fixed it, they seem to be a strong truck. Has a DPF on it so it has bad fuel mileage.
Chevy-LB7s(01-04.5) had injectors issues, they last about 80-100K then its about 2K in parts and a full weekend to work on it, but very strong besides that.
LLY 04.5-05 are known to have weaker HG (but if you run stock power levels it’s not an issue). They also have an overheating issue due to the air intake-it is a simple and somewhat cheap fix.
LLY/LBZ 06-07.5. Same thing as the 04.5-05 just different programing and minor changes. This is where they went to the 6 speed (vs 5) Allison.
LMM-07.5-10 strong engines
LMLs-10-now. I don’t like them b/c the locked the ECM so we cant play with EFI live-bastards!
Dodge-I know the least about the dodges but here you go-
First and second gen 89-93/93-98 were 12V, and had weak auto trans. They went to a 24V in 98.5 and then a common rail in 03. In 07.5 they went to the new 6.7. I’m not sure when they went to a good trans, but next time I talk to my brother Ill ask him (he’s into the dodges)

Hope this helps
 
#58 ·
ford auto trans pre torque shift are known to be a little weak (the ones behind the 7.3) but seem to hold up ok if you don't beat on them (I really don't know much about the E4OD and 4R100s). The early dodge autos are crap-I can't remember off the top of my head when dodge got it right with an auto but it was late in the game. Allison autos are strong until you turn the engine up, you can't adjust the line/clutch pressures electronically in a Allison like the torque shift so they do great stock but not so much with much over a +100HP program in it.
Here is what you have to watch for-programing. I can take a stock 2010 truck (any brand) and flash the ECM with a stupid hot program that will add 200 HP and almost 400 ftlb to it, hook it up to a trailer and precede to run my EGTs over 2000, melt the pistons, burn the turbo turbine and burn every clutch in the transmission in about 90 seconds. People think that their little $500 programmer is the greatest thing out there, and don't build the rest of the truck to hold the power. If you are buying a used truck and it has one on there STAY AWAY! Only way I would buy it if I knew the guy was smart and not pushing the truck.
Sooo here is IMO what you are looking at:
Don't buy a truck that has a programmer on it unless you know the guy…….
7.3-old, underpowered compared to the new stuff, but holds up well. Auto trans might need some work if it has had a hard life
6.0-lots of issues with the HPOP and HG, the rest of the truck is strong
6.4- some early ones had issues with overheating, but IIRC ford fixed it, they seem to be a strong truck. Has a DPF on it so it has bad fuel mileage.
Chevy-LB7s(01-04.5) had injectors issues, they last about 80-100K then its about 2K in parts and a full weekend to work on it, but very strong besides that.
LLY 04.5-05 are known to have weaker HG (but if you run stock power levels it's not an issue). They also have an overheating issue due to the air intake-it is a simple and somewhat cheap fix.
LLY/LBZ 06-07.5. Same thing as the 04.5-05 just different programing and minor changes. This is where they went to the 6 speed (vs 5) Allison.
LMM-07.5-10 strong engines
LMLs-10-now. I don't like them b/c the locked the ECM so we cant play with EFI live-bastards!
Dodge-I know the least about the dodges but here you go-
First and second gen 89-93/93-98 were 12V, and had weak auto trans. They went to a 24V in 98.5 and then a common rail in 03. In 07.5 they went to the new 6.7. I'm not sure when they went to a good trans, but next time I talk to my brother Ill ask him (he's into the dodges)

Hope this helps
Pretty much dead on with the Dmax's. We run a fleet of about 25 DMAX 2500/3500's and a few box trucks. A mixture of the various years. The LB7s are by far the most problematic. But even the LB7s are getting in the 300k range mileage wise. About the only thing I would add is on the transition between the 5 and 6 speed allisons, we had some odd ball leak issues. Nothing serious but annoying as hell. If you look at anything from that vintage make sure there are no leaks. As for the new LMLs, all i will say is **** that urea BS. The power is good though and the exhaust brake is excellent.

Im not a big Chevy guy but I love these trucks with the LMM and up/Allison combo. I am on my second one. As for price, my 09 2wd WT EC came in for around 30k new.I did not get many options, thats a positive thing about daily driving a jeep for so long is that i really do not care about much of that. The standard seats are actually very comfortable IMO. The only extra I got in the cab was the nice stereo and cruise. Outside I had them line x the bed and add step bars. The DMAX option adds A LOT as far as functionality in and of itself (tow package, gov lock, dual batteries etc). I do not think 30k was bad at all. I have never needed 4wd on this truck. Shes on 139k miles now, only issue it ever had was a cracked exhaust manifold.

With the towing eco tune (80hp ish I think) its perfect for my use. I am going to do a DPF delete, but my goal here is to add fuel economy, not for more power. I swear the fuel gauge drops 1/8 tank (it has the small tank) every time it does a regen. Also knocks about 15% off the oil life if the regen hits during stop and go traffic, i.e. not on the highway. But I digress,................I am not going to lie and say I do not like the power
, but even the tuner is for fuel economy believe it or not. The truck had more than enough power for my needs right off the lot.
 
#46 ·
^
you pay to play lol-and when it comes to the oil burners nothing is cheap-most people would be sick if I told them how much I have into mine. Just like any other truck, if it was left stock (no hot programmer) and well maintained, they will run for a long time. It’s not about how much the guy towed with it; it’s about how fast he went while towing it. IMO, either pay out to get a new truck and have the warranties, or you buy older and just know you will pay to fix the stuff the builder (Chevy ford dodge) messed up. Before you buy look online to see what you should look for.
 
#47 ·
I'm new to jeeps but not the oil burners-PM me if you have questions I have no issues helping you out. I don't claim to know everything but I have been playing with and breaking them since 04
 
#55 ·
I just don't like the Hemi in a truck. Too expensive to repair, too many horror stories, and they suck way too much gas. Look around on the Web, you will see that used Dodge trucks with the Hemi are listed for a low price compared to the 5.9 V8, the Cummins, and to the V10's. You will also see that there appears to be a boat load of the Hemi trucks on the used car market.
 
#56 ·
The first gen/era Hemis were that way but it seems that Dodge has brought the new ones up to speed a bit as I have read of several people seeing 20mpg out of 4x4 crew cab 1/2 tons. Granted, it wouldn't be my first choice but I don't think it's a terrible motor.
 
#57 ·
I used a friend's 2005? Durango with a Hemi to pull my Jeep & trailer on a road trip once. Man was that an expensive trip and I'm use to a tow pig that only gets 10 MPG on the highway while towing. :eek: That Hemi didn't know that trailer was back there, but it knew where all the gas stations were located :)
 
#59 ·
Okay, I know on a duramax they had injector issues on the 01-04 models. I've found an 04 model I can get a good deal on. How do I tell if it's a 04 or 04-1/2? How do I know if the injectors have been replaced? Is that a fix or will they have injector issues again? I believe that's around a $4000 job.

Here's the truck. I can get a little better price on it than they're advertising.

http://www.akinsford.com/2004-Chevrolet-Silverado-2500HD-LS-Winder-GA/vd/8727029

It's a little more than I wanted to spend but I know you get what you pay for and with only 108k on the clock it should last me another 10 years easily.
 
#60 ·
I hate to say it, but at 108k its right there in that range where those factory injectors typically need to be replaced. We saw it between 100 and 120k almost without exception. You could possibly check the VIN through chevy and find out if they have already been replaced. It appears the PO sold the truck right at the end of the 7 year 200k warranty on the injectors. My guess is they have not been changed, but thats all it is, a guess.
 
#61 ·
I googled the vin# and a carfax report came up. It doesn't say they have been changed. I would imagine a dealer would have most likely have performed the work if they were changed and if they did it would have been reported. I may see if they will change them as part of me buying it even though I know they're not going to go for it.
 
#62 ·
Its not a "huge" deal but its not a cheap one. There are supposed to be some new injectors that came out last year IIRC that are supposed to have a much longer service life. We kept the fuel filters changed out every 10k miles and get 120k to 150k on each set. Thats really the only issue we have with them. They run great when the injectors are good. We never had any issues with them overheating. They have decided to let them go after the second set of injectors croak so the last of our LB7s should be exiting the fleet within the next year. I know the prices are still a little high, but the LMMs are really great. I freaking love mine. The DPF is easy enough to dump and there is no urea injection BS to deal with like the LMLs.
 
#63 ·
Car fax won’t tell you if injectors have been done, get a oasis check from a dealer. check for fuel in the oil (cracked injector body) and check balance rates (bad injector tip). I'm doing my LB7 injectors now, it’s a PITA for sure.
 
#64 ·
I just figured a dealer would have reported doing it, I know they report servicing the vehicles to carfax. I'll check with a dealer but I think I'm just going to keep looking for one I can pay cash for. I just need to find a replacement truck soon but need to have patience doing so.
 
#65 ·
If you go look at the truck, a quick and dirty way to check for fuel in the oil is let a couple drops off the dip stick hit a clean white paper towel and see if you get a ring around it like this.


That is assuming he did not change the oil before he put it up for sale.
 
#69 ·
Only negative thing ive heard about the 08 PS 6.4 was an issue with the DPF appropriately nicknamed "the flamethrower". But its something they can fix with a comp update. Other than that...they make great power and are not a bad choice at all. In all fairness, the DPF system blows, no matter what vehicle its installed on.
 
#70 ·
I read up a little on them, it said the DPF kills the MPG. There are delete kits available for them, I just need to check what I have to do for emissions, not sure if that truck has to be inspected every year like my gasser does, I was just worried that it was another 6.0.

My GF informed me Saturday that her cousin owns a small car lot and deals in a lot of trucks. I spoke to him and he can get me an 08 extended cab, 2wd, 6.4, XLT, long bed pretty much loaded, PW, PL, PM etc except it has a rubber floor (which I want) with around 170k for $8500-$10K. They are fleet vehicles, he gets them from the fleet companies and they have all maintence records as well. He's going to look for one this week, he had one on the lot but sold it Saturday morning about 30 minutes before she called him. He said he has never had one sit on the lot more than 2 days.
 
#71 ·
I read up a little on them, it said the DPF kills the MPG. There are delete kits available for them, I just need to check what I have to do for emissions, not sure if that truck has to be inspected every year like my gasser does, I was just worried that it was another 6.0.
It definitely KOs the fuel mileage. To burn the soot out it shoots in excess fuel to get the temp up. If you are in stop and go traffic when the regen cycle hits, it REALLY sucks the fuel. The DPF delete pipe and programmer will run you 600 to 700 bucks total. But I think its worth it. There are several good programmer/tuners out there that will work with the DPF delete.
 
#72 ·
Don't buy a 6.0. I have had my 6.0 since the begining with minor problems. I have to say I performed several reliability upgrades because of issues other people were experiencing. The only real issues I have have been my own fault with making it go faster.
The 7.3 is a great motor that you can't go wrong with. I had one and it was great. I guess firgure what your budget can afford and go from there.
 
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