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Diagnosing Death Wobble and Fixing Non-DW Shimmies and Wobbles

170K views 359 replies 103 participants last post by  orangecrush03 
#1 ·
Here are a couple videos. The first explains your front end. The second is an actual inspection.





I'll start out by explaining that Chrysler decided to use a 14 mm trackbar bolt, with a trackbar bushing sleeve designed for a 9/16" bolt, and the trackbar bracket bolt holes are somewhere around 15-16 mm large. This is a sure recipe for DW if the trackbar bolts are not properly torqued and periodically re-torqued to 125 ft. lbs.



Because my DW posts are buried in other members' threads and in some PMs, here is a thread of its own.

I will also include info on non-DW shimmies and wobbles in the thread.

I will clean it up as I go, but it should be helpful nonetheless.


Death Wobble is no mystery.

It is caused by loose bolts, damaged components, or improper installation.

Look at the picture below and follow along:



First, the tie rod (green) has ends that attach to a knuckle on each side. As you could imagine, if either ends of the tie rod were broken or bad, that could be a culprit for a shimmy (not Death Wobble). A common place to damage the tie rod is on the driver's side at the adjusting sleeve (in the picture, just to the right of the red swaybar link). That sleeve (maybe not the correct term for it, but you can see what I am talking about) allows the width of the tie rod to be expanded or contracted. There are threads on that end that can be damaged, causing play on that driver's side and allow an up and down, or circular play movement. Again, this would cause a shimmy, not Death Wobble.

Next, look at the drag link (purple). On one end, it attaches to the pitman arm (lavender), that attaches to the steering gear box. On the other end, the drag link attaches to the passenger side knuckle. When you turn your steering wheel, a shaft turns that goes to the steering gear box. The steering gear box turns the pitman arm, and the pitman arm pushes or pulls the drag link, which pushes or pulls the knuckle. Your steering wheel is straitened by loosening the two nuts on the sleeve/turnbuckle on the drag link and rotating the sleeve/turnbuckle to lengthen or contract the length of the drag link. If either end of the drag link is damaged, this would cause a wobble or shimmy, but not Death Wobble.

Next, look at the trackbar (aqua). It attaches to a bracket on the frame on the driver's side and to the axle on the passenger side. The purpose of the trackbar is to center the axle on the frame. With the axle centered on the frame, it provides some resistance to the steering system to allow you to turn. If there was no trackbar and you turned the steering, the whole front frame would shift. As a result, there is significant force applied to the trackbar in driving and steering.

Now, imagine that the bolts that hold the trackbar are loose in their bolt holes, or that the bolt holes are wallowed out (oval), or that the bushings at the trackbar ends are damaged, or that the bracket at the axle side has come loose because the weld has broken, or that the bushings are all twisted up because the rig has been lifted without the installer loosening the bolts and then retightened them at the new ride height. All these things would allow play in the front trackbar. When you steer or go around a corner, these loose or broken things would allow the axle to shake or slide side to side. If you hit a bump in the road, it could knock the trackbar towards the driver's side. Then, the rest of the suspension (springs, etc.) would try to bring the trackbar back to the passenger side. If you were going at any sort of speed, you could develop a kind of harmonic resonance as the axle more and more violently slide/rocked/shaked from side to side. It would feel like your whole front end was being voilently torn apart. You would have to bring your vehicle to a complete standstill to stop the harmonic resonance. This is Death Wobble.

Even one incident of violent Death Wobble related to the front trackbar can cause significant damage. The voilent harmonic resonance of the back and forth shaking is more than the trackbar bushings, bolt holes, and brackets are designed to handle. A severe Death Wobble occurance can crack or break the welds on the axle side trackbar bracket, or the bolt can wallow out the bolt hole in the bracket, or the bushing can be permanently damaged.

This is the most common source of Death Wobble because inexperienced installers either do not remove the bolt from the trackbar when they install a lift--leaving the bushing pinched in the bracket and bound up, or they do not properly torque the bolts after the lift has been installed with the tires on and the full weight of the vehicle on the ground at ride height, or (maybe the most common) they do not retorque the trackbar bolts after the first 50 miles, after every heavy wheeling trip, and at every oil change interval.

Next, look at the lower control arms (purple) and the upper control arms (light blue). In the picture, they are aftermarket arms with a heim joint on one end. However, the stock control arms have a rubber bushing at each end. When the control arms are properly torqued, the bushing is somewhat pinched in the mounting brackets on the axle and the frame. Sometimes, an installer will make the mistake of not loosening the bolts for the control arms when they install a lift. What happens sometimes is they really bind up the bushings because they are pinched/sandwiched at stock ride height, but then forced to the new lifted ride height. These bound up bushings can cause weird handling, bushing failure, and lead to Death Wobble. The proper way is to loosen the bolts, install the lift, reinstall the wheels so the suspension and jeep are at the new ride height, rock the vehicle/suspension back and forth and side to side, then re-torque the bolts to spec, then after 50 miles re-torque them to spec, then after every oil change or very heavy wheeling trip re-torque them to spec.

Improperly balanced tires, too much air in tires, bent wheels, improperly installed wheel spacers, bad tires (with separated plys), and poor alignment specs (caster, camber, and not enough toe-in) can cause wobbles and shimmies that lead to Death Wobble. However, these precipitate Death Wobble, but they are not the cause of Death Wobble.

Although not specifically identified in the picture, the ball joints that are at the top and bottom of each knuckle where it attaches to the axle C can go bad. Bad ball joints can cause shimmies, wobbles, but usually not full on Death Wobble.

Next, allthough not identified in the picture, the unit bearings can go bad and be a cause of shimmy and wobble, but not Death Wobble.

Hope this helps--assuming you read it all.

Death Wobble is no mystery.

The reason that the steering stabilizer masks it is that it can absorb some of the side to side voilent harmonics of a loose trackbar or damaged mounts. However, this masking is dangerous because it will not prevent the eventual failure of trackbar bracket welds and bolt holes from trackbar Death Wobble.

It is extremely important to immediately diagnose and fix Death Wobble.

Even one episode of DW can damage other components.

Multiple episodes of DW are almost guaranteed to damage other components.

Multiple episodes will often damage your:

  • ball joints
  • tie rod ends--including the adjusting sleeve end on the driver side
  • trackbar bushings
  • trackbar bracket bolt holes
  • steering sector shaft (where the pitman arm attaches to the steering box)
  • steering stabilizer
  • front lower control arm bracket bolt holes
  • unit bearings
  • trackbar bracket welds
  • drag link ends

Hellbound13 is an example of a member who with 5-6 episodes of trackbar related DW on a stock jeep ended up "chasing his tail" for many, many months. He ended up replacing almost everything in the above list--sometimes more than once.

Without repairing/replacing everything that was damaged at once, the remaining damaged components continued to cause DW problems, further damaging the remaining components.


This is Death Wobble (and the guy is extremely foolish for repeating it on purpose):

 
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#135 ·
In attempt to get rid of my wobble (that developed after I moved from a 2.5" BB to a 4" coil setup), I ran through the checklist today, did everything sans the brake calipers and disks step.

The only thing I found was play in the tie-rod ends, both on the pitman arm side and the passenger steering knuckle side. They both moved about an 1/8" when I put a wrench to it.

Also adjusted the tire pressure from ~32 to 30 and rotated tires. I took a test drive for about 30 miles with the steering stablizer removed and experienced severe wobbles (worst I've ever experienced) requiring me to drop to about (I think) 20mph each time to come out of the wobble (3 times total). Came home, verified the torque on all trackbar and lower control arm bolts again (all still 125). Reattached the stablizer and ran the same course of roads, did not experience any wobbling. Clearly the stablizer is doing it's job, however I wanna fix the underlying cause still.

Will replace the drag link on both sides and report back.
 
#136 ·
Replaced the drag link and did a quick test drive last night with the stabilizer attached. Seemed like an improvement, but only gave it about 15-20 minutes of driving. Today took it out for about 25minutes without the stabilizer, and it felt improved until I hit a patch of road that sent me into a wobble that required me to slow from 50 to 10mph to get out of it. Test drive was over at that point and I put the stabilizer back on. I'll give it some more road test time today when I drive back from RI to Northern VA, NY roads are where it normally wobbles out even with the stabilizer on.

At this point I've verified (to the best of my limited ability):
  • Front and Rear Trackbars and bolt holes are healthy, have good bushings and torqued properly.
  • Front LCAs are healthy, have good bushings and are torqued properly.
  • Lower Ball Joints do not have vertical play.
  • Top Ball Joints do not have sideways play.
  • Tie Rod does not have side to side or up and down play.
  • Drag link ends required replacement - New Drag Link does not have side to side or up and down play.
  • Tires are rotated, all inflated to 30psi, treads are healthy.

I am working with a 4" TF lift in front, 3.25" effective rear (2.5" TF coils in the back with a .75" spacer). I ended up with this setup because after having seen my front stock coils lose 1.25" with the new bumper + winch, I assumed I'd lose similar with new coils. Apparently TF coils don't give as much as I figured they would. As such I bought the spacer in case I had to level out, and turned out I did.

Though it happens infrequently, and usually a little breaking (reduction in speed of only about 10-15mph) will snap us out of it, the missus is mostly traumatized by the wobble and I'm thoroughly annoyed with it. As it's our only vehicle right now, she uses it as a DD (route 66 in VA - horrible roads) and I'm uncomfortable making her deal with my inability to rectify this problem. At this point I'm considering returning to the RC BB 2.5" for stability and that'd be at a waste of about $800+ if I reverted, which would suck royally. My ultimate goal is a 35" setup on 3-4" suspension. The plan was that until I can afford the 35's and all the required regearing and new hardware that goes with it, that I would do the suspension and would finish off my stock 32" Sahara tires while I save up. Stock tires are still in good shape.

With that backstory in mind, I see four possible courses of action next.

  1. Have a mechanic reinspect all components
  2. As a short term fix that will accomdate future 35" needs - Upgrade to longer LCAs - Will this make a difference?
  3. Add a high-steer kit to help some of the geometry issues and lessen the effects of bumpsteer (ideally lessening the threat of a wobble).
  4. Wait out until I can afford a complete 35" setup and keep using my goofy 4" lift on 32's setup.

I welcome any thoughts or follow up questions you have. Thanks very much.

Relevant Equipment List:
TF 4" Coils (Front) - TF 2.5" Coil with .75" spacer (Rear)
Bilstein 5100's
JKS Adjustable Track Bar - no bracket (Front)
Stock Track bar with relocation bracket (Rear)
Stock 32" Sahara tires
Original Ball Joints, Tie Rod
Replaced Mopar Draglink (both ends)
 
#138 ·
  1. Have a mechanic reinspect all components
  2. As a short term fix that will accomdate future 35" needs - Upgrade to longer LCAs - Will this make a difference?
  3. Add a high-steer kit to help some of the geometry issues and lessen the effects of bumpsteer (ideally lessening the threat of a wobble).
  4. Wait out until I can afford a complete 35" setup and keep using my goofy 4" lift on 32's setup.

I welcome any thoughts or follow up questions you have. Thanks very much.

Relevant Equipment List:
TF 4" Coils (Front) - TF 2.5" Coil with .75" spacer (Rear)
Bilstein 5100's
JKS Adjustable Track Bar - no bracket (Front)
Stock Track bar with relocation bracket (Rear)
Stock 32" Sahara tires
Original Ball Joints, Tie Rod
Replaced Mopar Draglink (both ends)
With 4" of lift on stock arms, you have too little caster. This will contribute to wandering and shimmy/wobbles. So yes, front lower adjustable control arms will make a big difference.

With 4" of lift, you will have unfavorable steering characteristics similar to bumpsteer without some sort of steering correction. So, a drag link flip kit combined with an axle side trackbar relocation bracket will make a big difference in handling.

All this combined with small, skinny tires will aggravate things.

If you do the labor, it might be worth it to spend a weekend and go back to a short lift until you can afford to do the steering, front lower control arms, tires/wheels, etc., all at once.
 
#137 ·
Just inspected the toe-in too for giggles, found it to be 3/16". Set it to 1/16", we'll see if that changes anything - Read that toe-in can have bearing on wobbles. Had it aligned after the lift went in, about a month or two ago. The reading from the shop stated 29 degrees, no idea what that translates to in inches.
 
#139 ·
Adjustable lower control arms would make a huge difference. My 3.5" lift came out to almost 6" in front. My kit came with UCA's and LCA's even setting them to the specs in the instructions had me at .5* of caster IIRC. It was too hard to drive on the highway, no wobbles, but would wonder around everywhere (ruts in roads from studded tires).

Had it aligned and got 5* of caster back, drives like stock.

With stock arms and that much lift you could even have negative caster, ie, big problems.
 
#140 ·
Thanks very much for the feedback Planman and Doc.

Just completed my RI->VA trek, results were more favorable, though I could've just gotten lucky. Having done that run ~4 times since I put the 4" in, typically I'll experience 1-2 episodes wobble that will require some level of braking (15-20mph reduction in speed). Had none of that tonight, a couple mild shimmies at worst, again maybe I just got lucky (NYC certainly hasn't paved the roads since my previous trips however).

I had the alignment done just after the 4" lift was put in, I'll have to pull out of the specs tomorrow to verify. I'm still novice in alignments, only did my first steering wheel alignment and toe-in setting today. I have yet to learn the ramifications of and what makes up caster/camber etc...

I will be doing all the labor myself - what fun would it be otherwise? So my follow up question is: assume I get adjustable LCAs, and a drag link flip / trackbar relocation kit - in your estimation, should I be alright with that until I can afford the new feet? Understand doing it all at once is ideal from a safety and performance standpoint, but from a financial standpoint, that's hard to do (I'm broke!).

If not, I'll suck up my pride and revert back to the stock configuration in the meantime.

Thanks again.
 
#142 ·
Here is a video of a stock 14mm trackbar bolt in a stock trackbar bracket with a 9/16" hole.

This is why it is important to remove the trackbar to inspect the bracket holes for ovaling.

This is why it is a good idea to replace the stock bolts with 9/16" grade 8 bolts.

This is why it is important to re-torque the trackbar bolts at each oil change interval and after every major offroading trip.

Because dealers rarely remove the trackbar to inspect the bolt holes and replace the stock hardware with 9/16" bolts, they miss the most common source of DW.

 
#147 ·
Here is a video of a stock 14mm trackbar bolt in a stock trackbar bracket with a 9/16" hole.

This is why it is important to remove the trackbar to inspect the bracket holes for ovaling.

This is why it is a good idea to replace the stock bolts with 9/16" grade 8 bolts.

This is why it is important to re-torque the trackbar bolts at each oil change interval and after every major offroading trip.

Because dealers rarely remove the trackbar to inspect the bolt holes and replace the stock hardware with 9/16" bolts, they miss the most common source of DW.

YouTube - Death Wobble
--- Thanks for posting this.:thumbsup:
I'm just about to put my new one on. I'll also need to weld a tab on the new 9/16th nut to replace the 14mm tabed one (to fit it inside the bracket)
 
#143 ·
After doing everything including the bolt and all the torquing, I still had shimmy, plus a while jeep vibration above 73.
Then the RK dude asked if I has steel or alloy wheels. Steel I replied. That was when I found out that steel wheels are more prone to manufacturing defects that can bew more noticeable with big meat than 32" or smaller.
The new alloy wheels did the trick.
Ran my JK for 800 miles each way at speeds running 75 to 80 mph. Shweet! Nice and smooth.
Never buying steel wheels again.
Anyone want a set of 5 Unique Series 297 black steel wheels cheap?
 
#144 ·
fishgutz said:
After doing everything including the bolt and all the torquing, I still had shimmy, plus a while jeep vibration above 73.
Then the RK dude asked if I has steel or alloy wheels. Steel I replied. That was when I found out that steel wheels are more prone to manufacturing defects that can bew more noticeable with big meat than 32" or smaller.
The new alloy wheels did the trick.
Ran my JK for 800 miles each way at speeds running 75 to 80 mph. Shweet! Nice and smooth.
Never buying steel wheels again.
Anyone want a set of 5 Unique Series 297 black steel wheels cheap?
It can also be a problem with aluminum wheels.

This is why it is important to have your tire shop run your new wheels on their balancer to make sure they are very close or completely true prior to mounting tires on them.

After tires have been mounted on the wheels, they can't be returned.

What you should do is have your shop run the old steel wheels on their balancer to see which ones are bad.

You can sell the bad ones for use with spares or on trail rigs.

The ones that aren't too bad can be balanced sufficiently for most people, and you can get more $ out of them.

The shop might do it for free if you take them donuts or pizza.
 
#145 ·
planman said:
It can also be a problem with aluminum wheels.

This is why it is important to have your tire shop run your new wheels on their balancer to make sure they are very close or completely true prior to mounting tires on them.

After tires have been mounted on the wheels, they can't be returned.

What you should do is have your shop run the old steel wheels on their balancer to see which ones are bad.

You can sell the bad ones for use with spares or on trail rigs.

The ones that aren't too bad can be balanced sufficiently for most people, and you can get more $ out of them.

The shop might do it for free if you take them donuts or pizza.
In my case, it was the bolt pattern was offset just enough to mess it up. The wheels were true and on center at the hub. But the bolt pattern was not centered on the hub.
 
#150 ·
As follow up to your advice, I put in TF adjustable from LCAs in yesterday (22 7/8" Driver, 23" Pass), which took me from about 2.8 Degrees Caster to 5-5.5 Degrees Caster, took it out in search of some local beat up roadways and it felt great. So for the archives, to fix the wobble I experienced as a result of installing 4" coils and shocks I did the following (whether it actually contributed to the fix or not may be subject):

Problem Started:
Install JKS Adj Front Track Bar
Balanced Tires
Had a Shop Alignment (wouldn't do it again - since learned how to do my own)
Problem Persisted
Ran through Planman's checklist (all sans the brake drum/caliper step).
Discovered vertical play in my drag link (both ends) and replaced with a MOPAR part.
Problem Persisted but seemed slightly improved.
Fixed my toe-in - despite the above alignment, I found that my toe was 3/16", I took it down to 1/16"
Problem dramatically went away. Still experienced a slight but very reduced shimmy on the worst bumps.
Installed Front Lower Control Arms (fixing Caster)
So far no problems! (~100 miles road test)
Crossing my fingers, but already I've noticed that I'm regaining confidence in driving. I found that I was flinching when I came to certain types of bumps expecting that on the other side of it I'd be wobbling, but felt nothing but a stable response. Now to figure out how to get the missus to respond in a stable fashion all of the time too....

Again, thanks to DrHolliday and Planman for the help, and to Planman for all the work involved in this thread. It is resources like this that allow and encourage me to continue experimenting and learning, and allows me to enjoy my Jeep as much as I do. Definitely appreciate the effort.
 
#155 ·
All stock 07 JK with 60k miles on her. Have had DW issues since about the 25-30k mile mark. I just replaced the TB and LCA hardware with the appropriate sized bolts after a short trip to my stealership this past week. I am under a limited warranty still so I wanted to see what I could get out of the dealer even though I had a pretty good idea of what they would tell me. Before I dropped it off I explained in detail what I wanted them to check for, which was basically the check list here. Technician first called me back within 2 hrs of dropping it off and he proceeded to tell me I need new drag link and tie rod because there was "too much play". I asked him if they checked my trackbar to see if they were ovaled out or damaged and he said he "had nothing in his notes". I then had another converstation with him (the same one as originally but not so nice this time) on what exactly I wanted them to look for and what I'm trying to fix, describing in detail basically the checklist in this thread.

He called back later in the day to say that they had inspected everything we talked about and that my TB was fine, nothing ovaled out and the threads were fine. The only thing they could find was that they said there was too much play with the inner/outer drag link and tie rod. Replacement part #s were part #52060048AD (Socket, Drag Link Inner) and #52060052AG (Socket, Tie Rod, Outer, Right). I questioned this and they said nothing else was needed for the recommended work. I am thinking I may need to replace the

Does this sound correct? I want to order the parts but I just want to make sure that is all I need. I have some '12 rubicon wheels/tires that I am wanting to put on but I have to get this issue resolved before hand! I am going back under her this week to check these myself so is there anything specific in terms of the "too much play" that I should check for to determine if there is anything they missed that I may need to replace?
Thanks
 
#156 ·
The drag link and tie rod ends that have too much play will cause problems.

Have the replace them under warranty--you'll get a free alignment out of it because they will have to do one after the install.

As far as the rest goes, I would specifically ask them about the ball joints, unit bearings, etc.

More than just a couple episodes of DW can damage many other components. However, driving with DW for as long as you have, I'd bet than more than just the drag link and tie rod ends are bad. The lower ball joints are almost surely loose.
 
#158 ·
The drag link and tie rod ends that have too much play will cause problems.

Have the replace them under warranty--you'll get a free alignment out of it because they will have to do one after the install.

As far as the rest goes, I would specifically ask them about the ball joints, unit bearings, etc.

More than just a couple episodes of DW can damage many other components. However, driving with DW for as long as you have, I'd bet than more than just the drag link and tie rod ends are bad. The lower ball joints are almost surely loose.
Ok thanks for the info. I will be replacing these myself unfortunately due to the extended warranty I have does not cover these "due to normal wear and tear". Even though the technician said it isn't normal to have to replace these parts this early. B.S. I know but its sad I expected this before hand. I will research up on how to check the ball joints and be doing that shortly. I'd rather replace everything I need to all at once.
 
#160 ·
This thread has been very helpful in helping me understand how the front end works. I have an 08 JKUR and am experiencing some sort of wobble. Starts at about 40mph and stops at about 50. I had never experienced it until changed out my wheels. Went from stock 17 to 17x9 with 4.5 BS. Kept the same 285/70 that I was already running. Would the change in wheel now cause the problem to appear? It didn't have any signs of problem when I dropped it off to have the wheels replaced and it did it as soon as I left the dealership. I have been told on 3 different occasions that the tires are all balanced correctly.

I had someone else look at it and they are saying that I need a new trackbar, drag link and tie rod ends, ball joints and adjustable caster bolts. I guess it is possible for all of this to be bad but why wouldn't I have seen any symptoms until the wheel change??
 
#198 ·
I have an 08 JKUR and am experiencing some sort of wobble. Starts at about 40mph and stops at about 50. I had never experienced it until changed out my wheels. Went from stock 17 to 17x9 with 4.5 BS. Kept the same 285/70 that I was already running. Would the change in wheel now cause the problem to appear?...

...I guess it is possible for all of this to be bad but why wouldn't I have seen any symptoms until the wheel change??
While the wheels themselves might, or might not be able to create a new problem all by themselves, they can certainly aggravate an existing condition.
All else being equal, a wider wheel, especially one with less backspacing, is going to at the very least add leverage to anything going on there at the ends of the axles.

I'm guilty of not remembering what the stock wheel width and backspacing specs are, but I'm guessing that this could have led to your noticing the shimmy.

I'm not ruling out planman's mention of the stud clips, just adding another possibility.

Paul
 
#161 ·
What you have described is what happens when aftermarket wheels or wheel spacers are run without removing the flimsy stock lug retainer clips. Without removing them, the wheel cannot sit flush against the mounting surface.
 
#162 ·
It is fairly simple to diagnose and fix.

The only real problems Chrysler have are:

  • they don't train their dealer techs how to deal with it
  • they made the JK a little more prone to it because they used trackbar bolts that are too small
  • they didn't make re-torquing the trackbar bolts at every oil change a recommended maintenance procedure

It would be frivolous to file a lawsuit.
 
#165 ·
amis8944 said:
So a speed dependent DW is more then likely tires?
A replicatable, speed dependent wobble is more likely wheels (bent or unbalanced), tires (unbalanced, feathered, or out of round), the lug retainer clips (must be removed to run non-stock wheels or wheel spacers), or it can be a bad alignment with too much or too little toe-in or too much caster (more than about 4.7 degrees).

None of this is DW. DW is random and not easily replicatable by simply driving at a given speed.

Post #1 explains much of this.
 
#200 ·
None of this is DW. DW is random and not easily replicatable by simply driving at a given speed.
One of the few areas where I completely disagree with you.
Every Death Wobble I've ever had or known of was easily repeatable down to the mile per hour and, in the most extreme cases, the exact bump in the road.
I realize that not all are, and that not everyone's experiences have been the same. But every one that I've been involved with personally would easily fit into this category and was the origin (in my area anyway) of the term Death Wobble.

It was still a Death Wobble that shook the wheel right out of your hands until you slowed to almost a crawl, and it's what I first started calling a death wobble way back when. It was still caused by tires almsot every time (on the non-Jeep vehicles at least), and tires only where what fixed the issue. And it was most definitely a repeatable occurence.
Even the previously mentioned Channel 7 News (KGO SF) story showcasing the wobble had some vehicles repeating the wobble at the exact same place at near the same speed on the bridge.

Not sure where the separation in definitions started, but to me, a DW is a DW, no matter what it's origin or level of repeatability. The defining characteristic is the wobble itself. Not the cause.

I agree with the rest of your post of course, but wanted to bring up that one aspect and give my 4 cents.
If it's a shimmy, it's not a DW. Even if it's a decently severe wobble, it's not automatically a DW. One bent wheel might cause a wobble and still not degenerate into a DW.
If it shakes the whole car with the front steering links whipping back and forth (solid axle or not) and pulling the steering wheel back and forth with it, it's a Death Wobble in my book.

Paul
 
#167 ·
planman said:
A replicatable, speed dependent wobble is more likely wheels (bent or unbalanced), tires (unbalanced, feathered, or out of round), the lug retainer clips (must be removed to run non-stock wheels or wheel spacers), or it can be a bad alignment with too much or too little toe-in or too much caster (more than about 4.7 degrees).

None of this is DW. DW is random and not easily replicatable by simply driving at a given speed.

Post #1 explains much of this.
Thanks I have been trying to find out what is was for two month I not the best macanic
 
#168 ·
Alright...getting very frustrated. Please help.

I was getting pretty severe wobble between 45-55mph. Took it to a pretty reputable off road mechanic/dealer. He replaced the tie rod end, drag link end, track bar, stablilizer (BDS), and added adjustable bolts to the lower control arm (BDS). Went to pick it up and he said the wobble still exists but not as bad. Said that the ball joints need replaced and suggested doing the axle u joints and unit bearings while being in there. I couldn't leave it again for those remaining items at the time (last friday).

He was right the wobble wasn't as bad but definitely wasn't gone. I have been driving it very minimal until I get the ball joints done (hopefully in the next couple of days). The wobble has gotten worse again though.

So, here is my question...will the ball joints cause such a violent wobble? I don't think I am getting hosed by the mechanic but I just want some others opinions.

BTW, the wobble didn't occur until I replaced my stock wheels with aftermarket alloys. Tires have been confirmed to be balanced.

Thanks
 
#169 ·
Johnnydenim said:
Alright...getting very frustrated. Please help.

I was getting pretty severe wobble between 45-55mph. Took it to a pretty reputable off road mechanic/dealer. He replaced the tie rod end, drag link end, track bar, stablilizer (BDS), and added adjustable bolts to the lower control arm (BDS). Went to pick it up and he said the wobble still exists but not as bad. Said that the ball joints need replaced and suggested doing the axle u joints and unit bearings while being in there. I couldn't leave it again for those remaining items at the time (last friday).

He was right the wobble wasn't as bad but definitely wasn't gone. I have been driving it very minimal until I get the ball joints done (hopefully in the next couple of days). The wobble has gotten worse again though.

So, here is my question...will the ball joints cause such a violent wobble? I don't think I am getting hosed by the mechanic but I just want some others opinions.

BTW, the wobble didn't occur until I replaced my stock wheels with aftermarket alloys. Tires have been confirmed to be balanced.

Thanks
Bad ball joints will cause wobbles that are pretty bad. It is really easy for you to inspect the lower ball joints with a jack and a lever (long tube or bar).

I don't know that your u-joints would cause a shimmy unless you lost one of the caps.

If your wobble was bad enough to take out the lower ball joints and tie-rod/drag link ends, it very well could have damaged the unit bearings, it may have damaged the front upper axle side control arm bushings.

All I can really say is that the full inspection checklist at the beginning of this thread needs to be performed in one sitting.

It sounds like the shop has some understanding and experience, but did they do everything in the inspection checklist?

One of the steps is to rotate tires/wheels to see if it moves, or to switch tires/wheels with a friend to see if it makes a difference.
 
#170 ·
Okay, thanks. Unfortunately, I don't have access to another set of wheels. I am going to try to rotate the tires front to back.

They did do the checklist (not exactly as you typed it) but they did do it. I do know that the ball joints need replaced and I plan on replacing them with the Synergy ball joints. I am going to have them really check everything else again. I am just very frustrated with this. I was under the impression that doing what they did would take care of wobble for the short term while getting the ball joints done within a couple of weeks.

Thanks
 
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