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Rifle*Speak...

2K views 32 replies 18 participants last post by  sonoran_Tj 
#1 ·
I am looking for a rifle in a 30-06 from $300-400 dollars.

I have my eye on the Savage 111, Weatherby Vanguard, and the S&W ibolt.

The Savage FXCP3 due to it's reputation, the Weatherby due to the adjustable trigger, and the same with the S&W (that and the Thompson barrel @ 23").

With that being said, the S&W has been said to have a "flimsy" stock. I am concerned about this, but I have still heard it is a quality rifle. However, Savage has got my attention, although an 8lb trigger pull sounds like a bit much. For a note, don't tell me to look at a Savage with the accutrigger, they are too expensive to fit my budget.

Go.
 
#5 ·
Nothing wrong with the savage. They make a great barrel. I would probably go with the accustock or wood stocked models as their plain plastic stocks are floppy. Not good for accuracy. The accutrigger is not a great trigger but it's light.

The Vanguard is a Howa rifle. They are quite good for the money. Factory triggers suck. They are adjustable but the ones I have played with were creepy and gritty and not that light. For another $100 you can get a real nice trigger for them though.

The TC Venture is really tough to beat for the money. Almost as good as the Tikka (below). They come with a good adjustable trigger. Nice barrels with 5R rifling make for easier cleaning.

I have never shot the i-bolt. My dealer got some in and had some issues so he never got any more. He is by far the biggest gun seller around here so if he doesn't sell them they just arent around. I did see that CDNN had some crazy iBolt deals in their catalog.

If you want to spend a bit more you can step up to a CZ who makes a great classic Mauser type action. These are really class for what they cost. Some have a 1lb set trigger.

My favorite shooter if all I care about is how it performs and don't care at all about bragging rights is the Tikka T3. The accuracy I have rung out of these is obscene for their price. Forget that. It is obscene for an off the shelf light rifle at any price. They have some plastic bits and show cheapness in more ways than that but they have the smoothest action of any listed here. They have an adjustable trigger that goes down to a beautifully crisp 2lb. With good factory ammo I have never seen one that wouldn't group into an inch but if you handload with premium bullets they will shock you! I have seen honest <1/2" Tikkas with handloads.
 
#3 ·
is it possible you could do some trigger work on it yourself? my marlin had a massive pull like that (as many factoy guns do) but i just looked online and found a write up on how to replace the springs with others and now it is down to like 2 pounds.
 
#4 ·
Na. I won't dabble in gun smithing unless I know for sure what I am doing (safety reasons). I could take it to a gun smith I guess, but it voids any warranty. I might go with a different savage just so I can get the adjustable trigger. I am stuck now. :(
 
#9 ·
If one is planning to upgrade, tweak, and modify the Rem 700 is the King! That is not to say they are bad from the factory. They just have so much potential and so much aftermarket support. Every gunsmith in the country is familiar with the action and can blueprint and rebarrel them. There are 100 stock choices. A dozen triggers. The sky is the limit!

The Tikka I mentioned above are fantastic out of the box but it's hard to make them any better than they start out. Most guys that have tried to bed them or do any of the usual stuff that makes a rifle more accurate usually make their Tikka worse. There is one gunsmith in the USA that I know of that blueprints and rebarrels Tikka. The only stock upgrade in the USA is Manners (though that's an awfully good one). And it says a lot that he builds his stocks to work with Tikka's weird bedding system rather than glass/pillar bedding.
 
#8 ·
If you are ready to pull the trigger and buy one now do you have a reason for having to have it right now? Are you getting it for an upcoming hunt?

If you don't have to have it for a hunt right now then why not wait for a few months and put a little more cash into your gun fund and step up? I know I know you want one now, but with a little more time and maybe even some tax return money added to the piggy bank you can get a much much nicer rifle.

That said the Vanguard is the one I would chose if I could not wait any longer. The lack of adjustability and heavy trigger means you either have the trigger changed out or deal with an 8lb trigger. While not terrible for pulling it while 150 yards from an elk and going for the vitals, trying to squeeze MOA shots out of it on paper is tough.

Like all things firearms are the same firearms from every company are priced close to the same for similar firearms across the board. The #1 rated rifle from Weatherby is going to cost close to the same as the #1 from Remington while the #37 rated Weatherby will be priced close to the #37 rated remington. So you get what you pay for in most cases regardless of brand.

Again if you can wait save some more money and step up to a better level.
 
#10 ·
GrapeApe gives good advice. Don't hurry into something you can get and miss out on what you want. Every time I buy something because it is what I can afford right now I end up regretting it, selling it at a loss, and spending more for the right thing later.

Don't forget to budget for a scope too. The cheapest I would even consider is the Nikon Buckmaster. The Burris Fullfield II, Bushnell Elite 3200, and Sightron SII are also good scopes for someone on a budget. Cheaper than that and I guarantee it will let you down. You may not even realize how it is letting you down until you get something better but it will.

My Dad, my nephew, and myself were out glassing before a hunt. I had not yet bought any good binocs so I had my cheap Tasco binocs along. My Dad had a set of older Burris binocs. My Nephew had just bought a nice $400 Nikon setup. We stopped on a ridge and looked down on the stream below. My nephew says "Look at that 5 point" (they only count one side out here), my Dad says "Which one is the buck?" and I say "Deer? Where?". :D
 
#12 ·
My Dad, my nephew, and myself were out glassing before a hunt. I had not yet bought any good binocs so I had my cheap Tasco binocs along. My Dad had a set of older Burris binocs. My Nephew had just bought a nice $400 Nikon setup. We stopped on a ridge and looked down on the stream below. My nephew says "Look at that 5 point" (they only count one side out here), my Dad says "Which one is the buck?" and I say "Deer? Where?". :D
So true :laugh:
 
#13 ·
I have the savage 111 in .308. I don't really know much about guns but I looked at couple. I like the savage because it felt pretty smooth and I have heard good things about savages accuracy. I took it to the range and sighted it in pretty well. So far seems like a solid rifle and I already killed a deer with it. I'm hunting in northern Wisconsin where I'll shoot 75 yards max though lol
 
#14 ·
Grape makes a very good point, but if you really want to get it now go with the Savage. I have the 111 FCXP3 in 7mm Rem Mag and from a rest or a bipod I can put all three rounds in a dime at 100 yards. The stock isn't as floppy as you might think so long as you keep it tight, and because it is plastic it is inert and will not warp with time or moisture. Kicks like a damn mule, but I love it.
The action is smooth as glass as well, and the trigger has a set screw that will allow you to adjust the break a little. I had it as light as about 3lbs or so, but I found that it was too light. Cranked it back up to about 5 which is really nice. Break is very clean with no real creep to speak of.
 
#15 ·
I'd say Vanguard. I have the Howa M1500 Lightning, which is essentially the same thing as the Vanguard, but it has a Hogue stock, which I love. Trigger is a bit heavy, but for a hunting gun that isn't always a bad thing. Better than too light. It'll probably be at the upper end of your price range. Around here, they sell em in a package deal with a 3x10 Nikko Sterling Nighteater scope for $470 (dunno why it's called a nighteater, because it obviously isn't night vision of any sort. But I digress). Mine groups great. Hand loads, but very little testing. As in, my second load, it was shooting 1 inch groups at 50 yds. We didn't have much time or ammo and didn't do much at 100, but I don't see it getting a whole lot worse. Great gun to pack around, stock feels awesome, shoots wonderfully.
 
#16 ·
You might also look at the Howa 30-06 as they are the manufacturer for the barrel and action for the Weatherby Vanguard rifled.

I have a heavy barrel Howa .223 rifle and with good ammo you can empty the clip in a dime size hole at 150 yards.

Something to consider if you are on a budget. They actually make some decent stuff.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Lot of great info here, I shoot alot and have bought and sold guns for more than 30 years. I can say from experience that the Savage is as good a gun you will ever buy at any price. I have seen them at 300 yard shoots smoke guns costing more than a grand or better. The new mossbergs are getting a lot better and for a low price budget gun they are gainig popularity. Like someone else said the CZ is an excellant gun and the ones I have owned shot as well out of the box as my custom rifles. Bottom line if I am looking for a rifle on a budget I am buying a Savage, you wont regreat it.
Good luck, Stan
 
#19 ·
'Flimsy' stocks aren't nec a problem. One oof the rifles I picked up last year was a savage edge with a reported flimsy wrist area. If you lock it in a vice and lean on the action, the wrist flexes. To make it happen puts stress on a stock in a way its impossible to while shooting. Mine with deerloads and cheap bullets put in touching group after touching group and moa or better seems to be the norm. Even though folks are trying to find a fix for the supposed problem, I don't see the point.
 
#20 ·
Put a high speed cam on it and watch it flex during recoil. Better a floppy wrist that forend though. Floppy wrists don't touch the barrel.

I am not arguing that your rifle doesn't shoot. There are exceptions to every rule. I have a Ruger 77/22 where the stock touches the barrel on the right side. This causes it to string to the left when you really heat it up. It also needs trigger work. I am more than capable of fixing both issues. Why haven't I? Because I have been shooting it since I was a kid and if you master the trigger and don't shoot it so fast it shoots tiny tiny groups. At 50 yards it will put 10 rounds into a hole so small that people think it's a 3 shot. Should every body make their stock touch one side of their barrel? No, It's a fluke.

My Dad has a Tikka Continental Varminter. One bolt lug barely even makes contact (very unusual for Tikka). I think it just gets a kiss under recoil. All wisdom would say lap the lugs to cure that problem. Why haven't I? Well, It's the most accurate rifle I have ever shot.

Somewhere out there an AK exists that would shoot 1/2" groups with match ammo. I know it.

Rifles are part science and part voodoo. While your rifle and the ones I mentioned are heavy on the voodoo, most will shoot far better from a rigid stock, perfect symetricallity of the bolt/receiver/chamber/bore, and a barrel that is either perfectly bedded to the stock or free floated from it. If I had to enter a shooting contest with an unknown rifle of my choice for everything I own I would bet on one with a VERY stiff stock among other things.
 
#21 ·
Thanks for the advice everyone. I am not looking to shoot MOA groups or anything serious. Most of the deer I hunt have been well under 50 yards anyhow.

I decided to just go with the Savage 111, and get the trigger done. Most of these "drop in" triggers require gun smithing, and I am not about to tamper with a firearm for safety reasons. I will take it to a gun smith.

I am not concerned about a plastic stock. Who needs a beautiful gun? The deer don't know what you are shooting. Wood is overrated. Stock flex I think is more of a snob thing than anything. I have seen people shoot SUB MOA groups with polymer stocks. It's the rifleman, not the rifle.

I mean, ****, people were killing stuff at a 100 yards 130 years ago with balls and caps.

Appreciate the advice, really I do everyone.

There is a gun show coming up on February 6th, I am going to see what kind of deals they have there.
 
#23 ·
Thanks for the advice everyone. I am not looking to shoot MOA groups or anything serious. Most of the deer I hunt have been well under 50 yards anyhow.

I decided to just go with the Savage 111, and get the trigger done. Most of these "drop in" triggers require gun smithing, and I am not about to tamper with a firearm for safety reasons. I will take it to a gun smith.

I am not concerned about a plastic stock. Who needs a beautiful gun? The deer don't know what you are shooting. Wood is overrated. Stock flex I think is more of a snob thing than anything. I have seen people shoot SUB MOA groups with polymer stocks. It's the rifleman, not the rifle.

I mean, ****, people were killing stuff at a 100 yards 130 years ago with balls and caps.

Appreciate the advice, really I do everyone.

There is a gun show coming up on February 6th, I am going to see what kind of deals they have there.
You know for a bit more Savage offers the 111 with the accustock and accutrigger?
 
#26 ·
Nothing wrong with a Savage. I have a Mark II .22 from them and it's a tac driver for sure.

Have you looked at the Savage Axis? http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/

Also look at the Marlin XL-7, as previously mentioned. It's a great gun for the money.
 
#29 ·
I would not get the I-bolt. I don't like the design of the action, I don't like the plastic stock and that it's not offered with a wood stock. The swivel studs are molded in and it's the forend is too flimsy. I also don't like the one-piece mount base.

The other two are both fine rifles.
 
#33 ·
The accubonds are built well, like every other Nosler bullet. They are definitely a bonded bullet so they over-penetrate most of the time; but there is no problem with shrapnel in the meat. I've taken a deer and an Elk with that load, and my dad has claimed of few of each with accubonds. Previously he used ballistic tips, but those definitely fragmented at higher velocities. We often found pieces of the bullet in certain cuts of meat. I picked the accubond for the ballistic coefficient, and its length works well in my rifle. I don't remember the powder/charge in my load but I do remember it was moving about 2980 fps at the muzzle. I want to try the Nosler E-Tip sometime, it has an even higher ballistic coefficient.
 
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