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Did I Get a Screaming Deal?

6K views 62 replies 28 participants last post by  JoonHoss 
#1 ·
Hey guys, I'm Tyler, first time poster here. I've been reading on here for a couple of weeks now because I just bought my first CJ7! :D Just wanted to first say thanks for all of the information you guys share. It's already been a HUGE help.

In something of a leap of faith, I bought the Jeep on eBay. The description was very vague, but I did a lot of reading before pulling the trigger, and surmised that it had all of the "right" stuff, but I want to run it by all of you and see what you think. Here's what I got:

-'78 CJ7 w/a 258
-T18A 4-speed trans I THINK (reverse is upper right)
-Weber 32/36 DGEV carb
-Long tube headers
-4" (I think) suspension lift on 35" BFG MT

Not sure which transfer case I got, but I have 2 shifters. My understanding is that a lot of people add the shifter to the Dana 20, but I'd like to know what you guys thing.

The odometer reads 46K miles. I THINK that's how many have been clocked since it was restored. The guy I bought it from didn't know a whole lot. It feels pretty tight mechanically though.

Only downfalls: the tires need to be replaced, like now, and it's not running too hot. I think that's because there was about a 6K foot elevation change from where it was to where it is now. Need to dial in the carb, but I think I'm going to take it to a carb guy after I get it smogged and registered.

And I paid.......... $3,800 (plus shipping, tax and license).

First of all, what do you guys think of all of that!?

Second, I've been looking at tires, and I'm thinking of going 33s because of the lack of power. What do you guys think?
 

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#9 ·
I think the Commiefornia smog experience will make you insane. Try to keep a cool head though, and be aware there could be some investment in your future. It might be cost effective to get into fuel injection.

On the plus side, the T18 is a jewel, and the rig looks to be in good shape. And yes, 33s will help. 35s are power suckers and (in my opinion) look weird on narrow-track CJs.
 
#10 ·
No. You did not get a screaming deal. You got ripped off. If was rich I would absorb your loss. The best I can do is half price.
I live in Nigera. I hope that won't be a problem. Just send me your bank account information and I will wire you the funds (while I am wired, :laugh:).
Congrats, looks nice. Now you are officially an addict.
:wave:
 
#11 ·
drop those bumpers homey- those things look heavy! your shifter makes your jeep look...excited.
 
#22 ·
Good luck with that, especially if you are out in East County anywhere.

There is a decent junkyard out on Hwy 67 in Lakeside that only handles trucks/SUV's. You may be able to find some of the required smog equipment from them. At the very least, you should be able to get intake and exhaust manifolds there.
HWY 67 Truck Dismantlers

When I bought my CJ from Utah, it was in a similar condition with a Weber carb and all the smog equipment missing. Instead of spending time and effort tracking down original smog equipment, I ponied up for the Howell TBI kit. It replaces the carburetor and all the vacuum lines with a throttle body fuel injection setup from an early '90's GM 4.3. And it's been CARB approved, meaning that you can take it to any smog shop to get tested.
 
#13 ·
Screaming deal, I'm not sure. I'm seeing a door with no handle. Some really flat springs for 4" of lift, (on the front) and I'm afraid to ask for a picture of the spring shackles in the front. How does it drive a 45+ mph? I ask because of the angle I'm seeing of the front differential cover, and what looks like a large space between the front of the front spring and the frame.

Tire Wheel Automotive tire Vehicle Motor vehicle

For reference these are 2.5" lift springs, with a shackle 1" longer than stock,(1/2") lift.

Automotive tire Motor vehicle Tire Wood Bumper


On the plus side, It sounds like a T18, but with reverse to the right and up, it would be a 1B not a "A". Both came with a Dana 20.
The intake appears to be a Clifford, not certain though. For sure '78's I don't believe came with a aluminum manifold.

I'm not trying to diss your purchase. Just pointing out some things.

Bill
 
#14 ·
Screaming deal, I'm not sure. I'm seeing a door with no handle. Some really flat springs for 4" of lift, (on the front) and I'm afraid to ask for a picture of the spring shackles in the front. How does it drive a 45+ mph? I ask because of the angle I'm seeing of the front differential cover, and what looks like a large space between the front of the front spring and the frame.

View attachment 636514
For reference these are 2.5" lift springs, with a shackle 1" longer than stock,(1/2") lift.

View attachment 636533

On the plus side, It sounds like a T18, but with reverse to the right and up, it would be a 1B not a "A". Both came with a Dana 20.
The intake appears to be a Clifford, not certain though. For sure '78's I don't believe came with a aluminum manifold.

I'm not trying to diss your purchase. Just pointing out some things.

Bill
Bill, thanks for the feedback. As for the door handles, the previous owner had them shaved and now it has remote entry. Stupid, but I can deal with it. I was guessing at the lift. I only said that because of the tire size. Newbie mistake. It does, however, fit in an 8' garage.

The intake manifold it an Offenhauser. I found that out yesterday after cleaning the motor up. As for driving above 45, I haven't gotten there yet. Trying to figure out all this smog stuff before I go about doing that. From what the previous owner said though, it's a little squirly. How would I fix that? Leaning process here :(
 
#15 ·
It looks like you may have a bit of work to do if it needs to be as per original spec to pass smog. However nothing too expensive as all those parts can be found and in 1978 vehicles were a lot simpler to work on.

Is your fuel filter on right? It needs to be horizointal with the fuel return pipe at the 12 o'clock position. This will aid running. Also those 35s will be slowing it down, check the axle ratios and consider whether 31s or 33s would make it more driveable.

It does not look like a highly original time machine or a highly upgraded rig, just an old CJ7. The price you paid is therefore about right and you should be able to have some real fun getting it just how you like it as there is nothing you have to keep original. It looks like a wiser buy than splashing out on expensive stuff you will then change.

A good start, welcome to the addiction. Now Just Empty Every Pocket.

Whether it is a SCREAMING DEAL depends on how much patience you have when you find the bills mounting.
 
#16 ·
A picture of the front and rear shackles would be a start. Im guessing the shackles you have are 7 or 8" long, OEM was 3".

You need to search "caster angle" so you understand what causing the squirreleyness.

I'm not from Califorina. From what I've read here on JF, you've got some work to do.

Bill
 
#25 ·
A picture of the front and rear shackles would be a start. Im guessing the shackles you have are 7 or 8" long, OEM was 3".

You need to search "caster angle" so you understand what causing the squirreleyness.

I'm not from Califorina. From what I've read here on JF, you've got some work to do.

Bill
Man, you hit the nail on the head there. :mad: With the tiny bit of driving I've done, I noticed that the steering didn't feel quite right. I don't have an angleometer yer, but unless my eyes are lying, the caster angle looks significantly negative, and I don't have any correcting shims either. I took a couple pictures and measurements. Here's what I came up with: 8" shackles in the front, 6" in the back.
 
#17 ·
t_long, you will ans your own question after you try to smog it.....
I've been play'n the PRK smog game with mine for over 28 yrs and it's a 110% PITA.
BTW, if as you say, it's not run'n to hot. You will NEVER pass the Ca. smog test! I can tell you by looking at that picture of the engine bay. You will fail.......
Good luck,
LG
 
#19 ·
You will need to turn that engine 100% back to OEM to get it registered in Calif. Carb will have to be replaced. If the ignition system was changed that will have to be replaced too. Both the header and intake has to go and stock ones installed. If the cat converter is gone that also has to be replaced. All 1978 model year emissions will have to be acquired, installed, and working. since its an out of state vehicle you will only have to meet federal standards to pass in Calif. But there is no real big difference between the two.
Word of warning do NOT take it to a smog station as it is! just opening the hood it will fail. They WILL flag it as a gross polluter. If that happens you will have a ton of headaches and hurdles to jump through like multiple referee inspections. This state has no sense of humor with smog control anymore, meaning they cut no slack. If it is not exactly like it was when it was built it will not pass.

I am a retired professional mechanic and was a smog license holder in two states.
Here is a Photo of what it will sort of look like. This is a 1981 but you should get an idea.
 

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#20 ·
titomars said:
You will need to turn that engine 100% back to OEM to get it registered in Calif. Carb will have to be replaced. If the ignition system was changed that will have to be replaced too. Both the header and intake has to go and stock ones installed. If the cat converter is gone that also has to be replaced. All 1978 model year emissions will have to be acquired, installed, and working. since its an out of state vehicle you will only have to meet federal standards to pass in Calif. But there is no real big difference between the two.
Word of warning do NOT take it to a smog station as it is! just opening the hood it will fail. They WILL flag it as a gross polluter. If that happens you will have a ton of headaches and hurdles to jump through like multiple referee inspections. This state has no sense of humor with smog control anymore, meaning they cut no slack. If it is not exactly like it was when it was built it will not pass.

I am a retired professional mechanic and was a smog license holder in two states.
Here is a Photo of what it will sort of look like. This is a 1981 but you should get an idea.
Eww. I'd be looking for a new home in a non communist state if I were you! I'll go $3802!

**edit** have you considered a 4.0? It might be easier and cheaper to swap in a 4.0 like these guys are doing. http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/california-4-0-obdii-swap-1530716/
 
#23 ·
Guys,

Thanks for the feedback. I've done quite a bit of work since getting the jeep about 2 weeks ago.

At one point, I was really excited because I thought I'd found a way around CA smog: historic plates. Well, I went into the DMV yesterday, and the changed the ******* law at the end of 2012 do that historic vehicles newer than 1975 still have to be smogged. Needless to say, I'm pissed and very saddened that I can't drive my Jeep right now (especially since I just spent a good sum of money on a full set of tires.

So, I may not have gotten a screaming deal, but I'd like to commit to keeping it. As I'm sure you all understand, I'm in love. haha So I need a bit of help...

My understanding is that I need a carb, intake manifold, exhaust system and smog pump. Is there anything I'm missing? Does anyone know if someone on the forum is selling?

I guess the silver lining in this thing is that technically the seller is 100% responsible for smog compliance. So there's a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.
 
#24 ·
By the way, I didn't see the responses past the first page until now. Newbie move! :drool:

TITOMARS - Thanks for all the info. Thankfully I haven't taken it to a station yet. Still trying to come up with my master plan... Question- How do the smog techs know exactly what the motor was supposed to look like. Reason I ask is I'm wondering how they would know that the distributor has been changed... and the manifold / carb for that matter. Do they have a picture or something?

SLO KEN - That's a good option. Would you recommend that over doing a swap? I've read into that a bit, but it's so expensive!!! It seems like either that or a swap are my best options at this point. The jeep is something I want to keep for a long time.

ROW684 - That has been weighing heavily in my options since yesterday at the DMV. Is there a a good source for information on what my options are when swapping? Reading the link you sent now... Thanks!
 
#27 ·
By the way, I didn't see the responses past the first page until now. Newbie move! :drool:

TITOMARS - Thanks for all the info. Thankfully I haven't taken it to a station yet. Still trying to come up with my master plan... Question- How do the smog techs know exactly what the motor was supposed to look like. Reason I ask is I'm wondering how they would know that the distributor has been changed... and the manifold / carb for that matter. Do they have a picture or something?
They have a battery of books and manuals to reference. I still have some of mine. ;) The big key for them is if it looks different or out of the ordinary, check the manuals. you might get away with a DUI if it looks like its been on the vehicle for a few years. But having a Weber or a Holley would be an instant red flag since they were not used by AMC in that era. Example: the only American vehicles to use a Weber were the Vega and the Pinto. Last time I looked a CJ has no resemblance to either of them. LOL After '74 No American car came factory with a conventional Holley.
Same goes for manifolds and headers or a non-OEM airfilter.
Without looking up your model year for a the detailed list here is what I can tell you off the top of my head, There may be more.
Cat converter
EGR valve and controls
AIR injection and controls
TAC and plumbing (stock air cleaner with the flapper, sensors, and flex tubing
TCS (if an automatic)
EVAP system
pressure/vac fuel system
PCV (closed system)
CTO control for spark and EGR.
EFE system, Early Fuel Evaporation or as its more commonly know as heat riser valve

Oh by the way the seller responsibility only goes as far as "in california". You buying it out of state and bringing in state the moment you crossed the state line with it, it legally became your problem alone. You can try to get the seller to help but I think he will tell you to go pound sand.
My best recommendation would be to find a complete core 258 from the 77 to 81 years and strip it for all the smog equipment. I see them all the time in C/L. Guys trying to unload them after they have repowered to newer engine types. You have to meet the 78 model year spec at minimum but you could use all the 79, 80 or 81 smog and just say it has a 79, 80 or 81 engine in it. Inspectors do not run the engine codes on the blocks. If you say used 81 smog parts and its complete they will look up an 81 and see its all there and if it meets 81 emissions output then you're good to go.
 
#29 ·
Yeah, Personally if it was me, I would just buy a 91 to 95 Cherokee and move the entire 4.0 HO into the CJ and be done with it. But that might be beyond his mechanical ability.
 
#32 ·
Just curious but what kind of smog laws did CA have back in 78? Does it have to be retrofitted to current laws or to those in effect in 78? Reason I ask is that my 86 never had a cat, it wasn't required back in 86 in Ontario Canada. I realize that each country/province/state has different smog laws but mostly just my idle curiosity.

The 'cover' on your shifter looks, um, er well rather interesting......
 
#43 ·
Here in the USA. At least in California and Nevada. The vehicle has to pass emissions equipment and test levels for the model year is was produced. As in this case it is a 78 so it has to have all equipment that was installed in 78 and pass emissions level for that same year.

No if he were to swap with a newer model engine it has to pass emissions for the model year of the engine. The law reads with an engine swap the emissions level of the newest will be required either car or engine.
 
#33 ·
NS, retro fit to yr made. Unless he goes FI and then I'm not sure what the Ca. law is.
The VERY BEST thing the OP can do now. Is a full FI switch. That will cost $$$$, it's the only way to go now.
Most of the smog crap you need, can't be found.
BTW, OP you bought the Jeep out of state......The smog issue is 110% all yours and yours alone.
You really should have done far more research........ :rolleyes:
LG
 
#34 ·
TITOMARS: I had a feeling you were going to say that. :( Considering all of the missing parts, I'm looking pretty seriously into the swap option. Actually, I just got off the phone with junk yard that was recommended by someone earlier. Question- will that motor bolt up to my T18? Also, why do you say 91-95? I am willing and able to do the swap, but I want to make sure I know that I have all of the right parts and information first.

I found something on Craigslist. Check this out: http://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/ptd/3883361911.html

SLO_Ken: Fair assessment. As I'm weighing my options, I'm thinking how nice it would be to have some more power. My CJ smokes a little bit, which concerns me, regardless of what the odometer says. I recently changed the PCV valve, hose and grommet, and it cut the smoke by about 85%. It's also leaking oil. I'd originally thought from the valve cover gasket, but it seems it's coming from somewhere else. On top of all that, I would need a stock exhaust system.

Long story short, I think a swap might be the best option. One of the things that drew me to the original equipment is the simplicity, but the feeling I'm getting is that it's going to end up being more expensive and less efficient than doing a swap.

Anyone looking to buy a 258? :rofl:
 
#44 ·
TITOMARS: I had a feeling you were going to say that. :( Considering all of the missing parts, I'm looking pretty seriously into the swap option. Actually, I just got off the phone with junk yard that was recommended by someone earlier. Question- will that motor bolt up to my T18? Also, why do you say 91-95? I am willing and able to do the swap, but I want to make sure I know that I have all of the right parts and information first.

I found something on Craigslist. Check this out: http://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/ptd/3883361911.html
yes a 4.0 will bolt to a T18. You have to use the 258 bellhousing, starter, spacer plate, clutch disc, flywheel, and pressure plate. but you will have to use a Hesco crank position sensor kit. it mounts on the front crank dampner instead of running off the flywheel/bellhousing.
91 to 95 is OBDI and the best package to use. Also the head design on these are considered superior to all other 4.0 heads.
87 to 90 used a hybrid MPI called a Renix it was a combination of Renault and bendix. this system was garbage.
96 on uses OBDII computer systems are not as simple and self contained as the OBDI.
 
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