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4 cyl 33" tire help

5K views 55 replies 22 participants last post by  gunshw301 
#1 ·
Hi, I have a 93 YJ, it is a 4cy and has a 5 speed manual transmission, that is basically stock and want to do some modifications to it. I know nothing about cars or installing and am going to have everything done by v3 Jeep Shop but i would like your alls opinion on the best way to get my jeep lifted and 33" tires but still have it able to go around 60-65 on the highway. My budget is around $2000-$2500. Sorry if this is a redundant question.

Thanks,
Jeb
 
#2 ·
A 4" lift kit can be had for about $450 from Rough Country, you need a T-case drop to keep the driveline angles in check, so another $50 ($500 total). Then of course you need the 33" tires which can probably be had for around $185 a tire for BFG AT (x5, 4 tires and a spare, $1425 total sofar), and now you need a new rear axle, because 33" tires can snap the D35 like a twig, so add in another $500 for parts/labor to install the axle ($1925), then of course you are going to need 4.88 gears at the minimum (over your 4.10 stock gears) if you want to go anywhere, which means you're looking at around $150 per gear set, plus labor to install them which can be anywhere from $400 to over $1000 depending on where you take the Jeep to (lets just say $500 to install the gear, so now you're at $3220). Then that's not even including labor, so you might be into it closer to $5000 if you want to do it right the first time rather than have to go back through and re-do your mistakes.

Don't think I am missing much from there.

It can get really expensive if you don't know what you are doing, as you can see. If you have never offroaded a Wrangler before, then stick with 30" AT tires, and a 1" boomerang shackle lift. That Jeep can go a LOT of places in its stock form, even more with a little bit bigger tire (like a 30").

33" tires are going to need a re-gear, otherwise your 4 cylinder isn't going to go anywhere anytime soon. 0-60 speed might be a few minutes at best with your foot to the floor. Obviously you can't merge onto the highway going 40mph.

If you are hell bent on bigger tires and lifting it, then consider a 2.5" lift and 31" tires. That way you aren't going to mess up your rear driveline angles too badly (improper driveline angles can cause a lot of vibrations and can potentially wear out components to the point of failure), and you can at least manage with your stock 4.10 gears. Don't forget to delete your Track Bars and get Swaybar Quick Disconnects, as well as longer brake lines.
 
#3 ·
It can be done but arefully. When you lift you change the suspension geometry and the steering. I did the lift put on the 33s and then SYE, custom shaft and some steering parts. My four angry squirrells will run 65 on the flat no wind after the first mile. Downhill with a tailwind 75. But when you get uphill you will be in third pushing 3K just to maintain 55-60. It is not pretty when you are on two lane mountain roads. Off road it is fantastic no issues wheeling with 4" lift and 33s. I will be regearing after a Ford 8.8 rear axle change but right now I am slow.
 
#4 ·
I ran 33's on stock axles and a 2.5 for over 2 years and didn't snap a thing. Rancho 2.5" lift, transfer case drop, Dick Cepek Crushers 33x12.5x15 on Cragar soft D's with 4" backspacing. Getting up to 60-65 was doable on flat ground. Up hill? No. Down hill? Sure. I topped out at 75 on flat land. I didn't snap anything because I stay out of the skinny pedal. The 4:10's are made for crawling. Let the gears and the engine do the work for you.
 
#6 ·
Thank you all so much for the help! This might be a stupid question but would it be a bad idea to swap out the engine before i did other modifications. I read that doing it can give you alot of issues with torque and stuff. Also if I did go for the engine swap how much money would we be talking about?
 
#8 ·
You probably don't want to hear this (I sure didn't when I bought my carbed 6 cyl), you would probably be better off timewise and financially to sell it and find one with a 6 cylinder. If you it is bone stock then you might not be out much money. Lots of people don't seem to mind 4 cylinders if they are going to keep it stock and just cruise it around. It still wont be awesome with 33s but at least you could find 4 cyl axles with 4.10s (possibly an 8.8 for the rear), thats what I did.
 
#9 ·
If you have a stick then you have an AX5. If that is the case you will lose 5th gear. Highway driving with tires over 31" will break the snap ring on 5th normally. It is so common there is even a special piece you can buy to hold the snap ring in place when it is fixed. The best fix for it is an AX15 though. If you regear before putting on the 33's you should be ok though.
 
#10 ·
As others address your gearing options, I'll address the lift options.

Do not get a Rough County lift kit. You will not be happy. I do not recommend getting any lift "kit" rather you will be much better off piecing it together. I went with Superlift 3.5" leaf springs with bushings, new shocks, and a t-case drop. That is really usually all you would need. That and relocation of your brake lines. That is plenty of room for 33s and if you wanted to add a pair of 5/8" boomerang shackles it will certainly help.

Here are the front springs, 2 of these
http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kit...spx?t_c=1&t_s=101&t_pt=4113&t_pn=SUP01-545F-6 ,

and 2 of these
http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kit...spx?t_c=1&t_s=101&t_pt=4113&t_pn=SUP01-545R-6 ,

and a set of bushings, and you're half way there for under $250
 
#11 ·
for comparison purposes only...

I'm running an '89 2.5, 5 spd, 31's, 4" lift, 4.56 gears (rear limited slip.) 65/70 mph is doable but not easily. I wish I had gone 4.88 gears instead. That would be about 3300 to 3500 rpm at 70/75-ish which would be fine. I drive my jeep every day, wheel trails that are difficult to walk up, have taken it to Northern Ca, camped in the Sierra's and can still fit in underground parking structures. (Read that as 'easy to live with'). Your '93 makes a bit more power I suspect because of the newer/better fuel delivery system but on that budget and that set-up you would have a capable, easy to live with good looking (in my opinion) jeep. The gear swap was $1400 for gears and the limited slip (closer to $1100 w/o the limited slip) where I dropped it off in the morning, and picked it up in the afternoon. I hope this helps but whichever way you go post pics, let us know how it's going! :cheers2:

Good Wheelin to ya!
 
#12 ·
On the lift do what Carlos said. Just go with a quality spring. BDS, Old Man Emu etc. You can always do a small (1") body lift as well to keep driveshaft angles acceptable. OME 2.5" springs and a body lift would probably fit 33" tires pretty well.
 
#13 ·
You want 75 or eighty no problem with plenty to burn, try my recently discovered improvement, hub conversion no shakes no rattles, andlenty of roll, what an improvement, I run 33s with plenty of extras, and I can fly like the wind in my 2.5.

I have had 4.0, 4.3' and 2.5s, you go trade your jeep in for a 4.0 if I had the money I would take the 2.5 and fix and run with you all day long. I'm 50 and have had 4 wheel drives all my life horse power to weight ratio and gearing are the secret and the 2.5 when treated properly will perform magically. So if you measure your weenie by horsower by all means get rid of the little engine now. But someone with a big wanker will buy it cheap and be right behind you on the trail.

I have a 4.0 therefor I win games with my game face alone, I have a 2.5 and well it came in my jeep and I will love it and treat it with respect oh and quess what, if your 2.5 will nor run 70 miles an hour with 33 s you need to find out what's wrong with it, cause its broke.
 
#14 ·
You want 75 or eighty no problem with plenty to burn, try my recently discovered improvement, hub conversion no shakes no rattles, andlenty of roll, what an improvement, I run 33s with plenty of extras, and I can fly like the wind in my 2.5.

I have had 4.0, 4.3' and 2.5s, you go trade your jeep in for a 4.0 if I had the money I would take the 2.5 and fix and run with you all day long. I'm 50 and have had 4 wheel drives all my life horse power to weight ratio and gearing are the secret and the 2.5 when treated properly will perform magically. So if you measure your weenie by horsower by all means get rid of the little engine now. But someone with a big wanker will buy it cheap and be right behind you on the trail.

I have a 4.0 therefor I win games with my game face alone, I have a 2.5 and well it came in my jeep and I will love it and treat it with respect oh and quess what, if your 2.5 will nor run 70 miles an hour with 33 s you need to find out what's wrong with it, cause its broke.
Its not about ego or pecker size buddy. How much is he going to pay to have a shop regear his axles vs the minimal cost difference between a 2.5 and 4.0 Wrangler? In my area a lot of them sell for the same. Not saying you are full of crap but 4 cylinders and a brick doesn't make me think "fly like the wind"
 
#15 ·
The 4 cyl are adequately powered with the right tire and gearing combination. I used to DD mine and could do 65mph without much issue with 4.10 gears and 29" tires. I used to do the same on 31's. But it's not going to survive well doing 80-mph+ all the time, considering it's pushing 3000rpm at 70, closer to 4000 at 80. It stops making torque at ~3200rpm.
 
#16 ·
OP,
What is the terrain like where you live? Do you take your Jeep off road? If it's flat and you don't wheel aggressively, you should be OK on 33s for a while. It won't be impressive, but you should be able to get it to 65. I live in the Ozarks (very, very hilly). My nephew has a bone stock 4 cylinder TJ with too much body lift and 33s. It's not a race car, but he can maintain highway speed. I have a heavily modified '92 YJ still running the 2.5/AX5/4.10 gears. It's not a speed demon, but I can definitely go fast enough to get a ticket.

You indicated that you don't have a lot of automotive experience. Is that by choice? If you plan on wheeling, but not working on your Jeep, you'll find out very quickly how expensive a hobby this can be. If you're willing to learn, find a local 4WD club and ask for help. Most of the fellows in this hobby enjoy working on Jeeps. Dinner and beverages will often get you plenty of instruction and assistance and you'll make some friends in the process.

That being said, I agree with the previous poster about piecing together a lift. You can follow his instructions (but you'll probably need longer shocks in addition to what he mentioned) or you could source a couple of sets of front Wagoneer springs. They'll net you about 2 1/2" of lift and if you decide later that you want a little more length, you can turn them around and gain extra wheelbase. This in conjunction with an inch of body lift and perhaps shackles should clear 33s without much issue. As said before, you'll need to address shocks and brake lines as well, but if you only put 2 1/2" of lift, you may not need mess with your drive shaft angle and steering. I've seen 4" lifts that worked fine w/o a SYE or a TC drop and I've seen 2 1/2" lifts that needed the drive shaft angle addressed. It just depends on the Jeep.

Yes, it's possible that your rear axle may self destruct; however, if you don't abuse it, it should last long enough for you to save up for an 8.8 install. Also, if you keep stock tires and wheel it hard, you may still blow the D35...

Yes, fifth gear may very well fall off; however, there's a good chance that it will happen anyway. Also, keep in mind that if you're running 33s with factory 4.10 gears, 4th gear is effectively an overdrive. Just because it has a fifth gear doesn't require that you use it.

There are also a handful of things that you can do to coax a little more power from your engine (4.0 TB, 19 lb. Injectors, Electric fan conversion, and etc.).

Sure, in a perfect world you'd bump up to 33s, swap the rear axle, put on a smooth riding super flexy lift, regear, and do a full engine/transmission/transfer case swap all at once. Typically, this is not how it's done (definitely not on a daily driver). Honestly, once you've done all that, you might as well get 35s.

If you decide to have the work done, find a decent 4WD shop and get an estimate and start saving. If you want to wrench on it yourself, find a 4WD club that you mesh with, ask for advice, and use some of your cash to buy a decent quality starter tool set. Craftsman tools are priced well for the quality and there isn't a lot that you can't do with a good starter set.

Do a little at a time as funds and comfort level allow and as you things break or don't function the way you want. Start with fluid changes and a tune up. You might find out that you enjoy it.

Sorry for the length of this, but I was trying to answer both the question and the questions that you don't yet know to ask.
 
#17 ·
I DD mine. I have the 2.5 with stock 4.10 gears. I run 75 mph each way to and from work. I drive 110 miles round trip a day. I can hold 65 over the moutain I cross. I get 17 mpg summer and 14ish in the winter. I run 33x12.5 tires. I got 260,000 miles out of the first engine and trans. Then the trans died and I replaced it. The next day the exhaust valve in cylinder 2 broke and the valve head punched a hole in the piston. So I now have a new engine and trans. Like I said I got almost exactly 260,000 miles out of them. Up until recently I took mine off road every weekend and beat it like it owed me money. If you take care of it it will take care of you. I am also running the D35 still. When it breaks I will go 8.8 but so far so good.
 
#18 ·
If you can't do the labor yourself, it is far cheaper to sell your jeep as is and get a 4.0 (91 or later). You won't have any problems running the speeds you want, getting the low end torque for off road, and have a better transmission from the get go.

You have only budgeted about half of what it will cost to transform yours if you are paying for labor.
 
#19 ·
GrantYJ said:
OP,
What is the terrain like where you live? Do you take your Jeep off road? If it's flat and you don't wheel aggressively, you should be OK on 33s for a while. It won't be impressive, but you should be able to get it to 65. I live in the Ozarks (very, very hilly). My nephew has a bone stock 4 cylinder TJ with too much body lift and 33s. It's not a race car, but he can maintain highway speed. I have a heavily modified '92 YJ still running the 2.5/AX5/4.10 gears. It's not a speed demon, but I can definitely go fast enough to get a ticket.

You indicated that you don't have a lot of automotive experience. Is that by choice? If you plan on wheeling, but not working on your Jeep, you'll find out very quickly how expensive a hobby this can be. If you're willing to learn, find a local 4WD club and ask for help. Most of the fellows in this hobby enjoy working on Jeeps. Dinner and beverages will often get you plenty of instruction and assistance and you'll make some friends in the process.

That being said, I agree with the previous poster about piecing together a lift. You can follow his instructions (but you'll probably need longer shocks in addition to what he mentioned) or you could source a couple of sets of front Wagoneer springs. They'll net you about 2 1/2" of lift and if you decide later that you want a little more length, you can turn them around and gain extra wheelbase. This in conjunction with an inch of body lift and perhaps shackles should clear 33s without much issue. As said before, you'll need to address shocks and brake lines as well, but if you only put 2 1/2" of lift, you may not need mess with your drive shaft angle and steering. I've seen 4" lifts that worked fine w/o a SYE or a TC drop and I've seen 2 1/2" lifts that needed the drive shaft angle addressed. It just depends on the Jeep.

Yes, it's possible that your rear axle may self destruct; however, if you don't abuse it, it should last long enough for you to save up for an 8.8 install. Also, if you keep stock tires and wheel it hard, you may still blow the D35...

Yes, fifth gear may very well fall off; however, there's a good chance that it will happen anyway. Also, keep in mind that if you're running 33s with factory 4.10 gears, 4th gear is effectively an overdrive. Just because it has a fifth gear doesn't require that you use it.

There are also a handful of things that you can do to coax a little more power from your engine (4.0 TB, 19 lb. Injectors, Electric fan conversion, and etc.).

Sure, in a perfect world you'd bump up to 33s, swap the rear axle, put on a smooth riding super flexy lift, regear, and do a full engine/transmission/transfer case swap all at once. Typically, this is not how it's done (definitely not on a daily driver). Honestly, once you've done all that, you might as well get 35s.

If you decide to have the work done, find a decent 4WD shop and get an estimate and start saving. If you want to wrench on it yourself, find a 4WD club that you mesh with, ask for advice, and use some of your cash to buy a decent quality starter tool set. Craftsman tools are priced well for the quality and there isn't a lot that you can't do with a good starter set.

Do a little at a time as funds and comfort level allow and as you things break or don't function the way you want. Start with fluid changes and a tune up. You might find out that you enjoy it.

Sorry for the length of this, but I was trying to answer both the question and the questions that you don't yet know to ask.
Thank you all for the help again! I take my jeep out wheeling at a minimum of once a month and will probably be taking it out more often during the summer. Also I am pretty aggressive offroad. I've also been looking into joining an offroad club called the Ohio River Four Wheelers.

Just a few more questions on tires.
Would I have all these problems with 31" tires? And if I did choose to go with 31" tires instead of 33's would there be any significant difference in my jeeps ability offroading?
 
#21 ·
I ran 31s for a long time (close to 10 years) when my Jeep was my DD with nothing more than shackle lift and bastard packs that had a second leaf from some S10 packs added to the stock packs. It rubbed the flares when flexing, but didn't make it to the body. I drive about 70 miles a day and it's very hilly in my area. It wasn't a powerhouse, but it could run 70+ as long as it was relatively flat, 65-70 on hills. I'm running 33s now and it's not that much different, but I have aluminum wheels and Hankook Dynapro MTs. The Hankooks aren't terribly aggressive for a MT tire and they weigh about the same as my old 31s.

Concerning the transmission, sooner or later 5th is going to fall off. The bigger the tire, the more likely that it will happen. The AX5 might make a great boat anchor, but they're terrible transmissions. I just don't use 5th anymore. I'm planning a Ford 302/NP435 swap right now (haven't decided on a TC). If my transmission gives up again, I'll be expediting the swap, but I doubt it will be a factor since I don't use 5th.

The rear axle is a wild card. I know guys who are downright abusive who haven't had problems and I've seen them let go for no apparent reason. I wouldn't worry about it right now, but since you're wheeling, you should probably start thinking about swapping it if you're going to 33s (or even aggressive wheeling on 31s). I've messed up two on 31s. If you decide to wait, do NOT put a locker in your D35. It will self destruct.

For wheeling, bigger tires make things easier, but even with stock tires you'd be amazed where you can put a YJ (it just takes more skill). There's only 1" of clearance more with 33s in lieu of 31s, but 33s have a much easier time going over things (just as 35s climb easier than 33s). Most people think that you put on bigger tires for more clearance; however, while clearance is nice, it's not nearly as much of an issue when wheeling as diameter of tire when you're trying to get over or through something.

The pretty picture below illustrates how the angle of the tangent of the tire to an obstacle changes with tire diameter on a few different sizes of obstacles. The closer the angle gets to 180 (flat) the easier it is to climb. A degree or two makes a world of difference. I hope this clears up what I mean about tire size for climbing rather than clearance.

Head Facial expression White Organism Font


The bottom line is, the transmission and rear axle that came in your Jeep just suck (I'm in the same boat). They are the weak points in your drive train. Bigger tires exacerbate the problem. Deeper gears would help (not cure) concerns about the transmission, but won't do all that much for the rear end (except throw money away by swapping gears into a D35).

Just decide what tires you want to run and plan accordingly. At the moment, I've got 33s with the same drivetrain that you've got and it's holding up fine. I'm prepping to reinstall my 8.8 now and I'm planning on swapping to a different engine/trans/TC, but my end goal isn't the 33s that I'm running. I want to go bigger. For 33s, I don't see a terrible problem with the setup you have. I wouldn't run 35s with it, but I'm comfortable with my 33s.
 
#22 ·
The bottom line is, the transmission and rear axle that came in your Jeep just suck
Keep in mind that Jeep did not design the YJ to be modified, nor a hard core balls to the walls offroad machine.

In stock form, everything works perfectly. The market was to those who are looking for a vehicle that makes a practical daily driver that can leave the road and explore a bit if the owner so desires to. Chances are, they never thought we would be doing what we are doing to them.

They work fine in stock form, even with mildly larger tires, but nothing more than that.
 
#24 ·
Well this post is kind of bumming me out since I just ordered 33-12.5's today. I've been running 32-11.5 I bought from a friend on the cheep, but they are pretty dry rotted. I just moved to OK and haven't had any trouble on highway doing 65 mph. How do I find out which transmission and gears I have?
 
#25 ·
Even if you have the ax5 its not as bad as people say. I got 260, 000 trouble free miles out of my last one and 100, 000 of those were on 33x12.5. Keep the fluid changes and clean (it uses 10w30 motor oil) and it will treat you right. I even regularly tow a small trailer with mine.

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using JeepForum
 
#28 ·
Exactly what it sounds like. There is a retaining clip on the end of the shaft that holds your gear (5th gear) in place. It has a nasty habit of breaking. When you try to shift into 5th, it's like you put it in neutral.

It isn't like it happens every other time you drive it, but it's a known problem.
 
#30 ·
Mine came off twice. The last time was around 2002 or 2003 (three or four years before I had an accident and stopped DDing it). Both times I pulled it and took it to a local shop to have it fixed. The second time, my normal guy was backed up and I took it to a different guy... when I told him that it had come off before and I didn't want it to come off again, he assured me it wouldn't. A few months later when I heard "ticking" while in 5th, I realized what he meant. The ticking was a chip in the gear resulting from the fact that he welded it on and messed up the temper. That's when I quit using 5th.

I know that there's a fix out there (now) but I never looked into it because I'd have to replace a shaft and a gear. I'd rather just swap my drive train.

If you're concerned about it, do a search. I believe that there's a fix that entails installing something that keeps it from coming off. If you end up in a situation where it's already fallen off, I wouldn't want to drive around with a decent sized chunk of steel rattling around gears that are rotating at those speeds.

Sorry that I'm not more helpful, but I haven't bothered looking into it further since I don't use 5th and I don't have to worry about it coming off again. Hopefully, one of the guys who's done this will chime in.
 
#31 ·
I've an Ax5 that was beaten on and thrashed by one of the PO's, still works fine with 107K miles on the odometer. No grinding, no sticking, nothing, just gotta go to 1st before reverse :thumbsup:
 
#32 ·
I love my 2.5, also lets be clear I have a 4.0 check out my pictures, boys yaw are all playing a 16 year old mentality, The 2.5 is more than adequate for 33 inch tires with working order parts, and if you are rolling a lifted jeep in hilly terrain at 75 miles and hour, BYE

its all about the what your satisfied with,:hahaha: if the 2.5 isn't enough engine then snatch it out but don't put some overhyped piece of weight like a 4.0 in it stick a real engine in there something that can smoke 37s and pull a dump truck, I say you need to go and get a LS1,3 and buy every gear large axle, aftermarket part, a super chip.

I wonder how many folks on here have tried all these wizardly improvements and tormented over another 40 hp. Because someone said that x axle is horrible or x motor is no good or X transmission will break.

I have turned a many a wrench and will probably do so again tomorrow. I say have it but when you decide to ditch the 2.5, then don't get a 4.0 get a Cummins cause they are the boss. I'm not cause in the end my 2.5 will take me any where your 4.0, will. When the end of the earth comes only Cockroaches and 2.5l jeeps will be left. :rtft:
 
#33 ·
I love my 2.5, also lets be clear I have a 4.0 check out my pictures, boys yaw are all playing a 16 year old mentality, The 2.5 is more than adequate for 33 inch tires with working order parts, and if you are rolling a lifted jeep in hilly terrain at 75 miles and hour, BYE
The 2.5L does just fine around town, the 4.0 has more power to carry the Jeep up through hills. Having a good power/weight ratio around here is important, most of the highways are built on hills, and if you don't have enough power to power up them at around 65 then it gets dangerous. California highway speeds are more like 75-80mph.

its all about the what your satisfied with,:hahaha: if the 2.5 isn't enough engine then snatch it out but don't put some overhyped piece of weight like a 4.0 in it stick a real engine in there something that can smoke 37s and pull a dump truck, I say you need to go and get a LS1,3 and buy every gear large axle, aftermarket part, a super chip.
The 4.0 is more than adequate for most. Just because you think it's overhyped doesn't mean it actually is. There's good reason most stick with the 4.0.

I wonder how many folks on here have tried all these wizardly improvements and tormented over another 40 hp. Because someone said that x axle is horrible or x motor is no good or X transmission will break.
This statement doesn't make sense.

I have turned a many a wrench and will probably do so again tomorrow. I say have it but when you decide to ditch the 2.5, then don't get a 4.0 get a Cummins cause they are the boss. I'm not cause in the end my 2.5 will take me any where your 4.0, will. When the end of the earth comes only Cockroaches and 2.5l jeeps will be left. :rtft:
Cummins motors aren't inexpensive or easy to find. Typically people pay through the nose to get them, only on the rare occasion do you find someone who scored one for cheap. V8 engines are incredibly easy and inexpensive to find, and still put the power to the ground, that is why a lot of people go for them, myself included. They are more practical.
 
#34 ·
16 year old mentality? If the almighty 2.5 isnt enough your solution is to throw a v8 or a cummins in? I thought we were talking about building it to run 33s on a budget. Im sure I have more into my motor swap than his jeep is worth, hence the suggestion to pick one up with a 4.0
 
#35 ·
Everyone saying regear and motor swap is the only option is just nuts. Yah your not going to be winning races but you'll be ok.. I ran 33s with the 4cyl for about a year and a half.. Than I did the motor swap. If anything I think that's the way to go because you'll hve the 4:10 axles already and regearong won't be as bad because you won't need a new carrier which I beleive you need when going from 3:07s that 6 cyl jeeps come with
 
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